Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
07-06-2014, 07:13 AM   #31
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 40,442
QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Hi Driline. I know you're reading this.
Buy the K-3.
Then sell something. Buy the FA31, then the FA77. You know it has to happen.
If you're going to buy the 77, then it makes your macro decision easy, you've got 77 covered so buy the 100 macro, that gives you more prime range. It takes good planning to get this right. I ended up with the 70 macro, to makes it hard to really covet the 77. You have to arrange things so there isn't overlap in your coveting, that can get really expensive, like even more expensive than ordinary LBA.

07-06-2014, 07:20 AM   #32
Pentaxian
Class A's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 11,250
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Even though the range is theoretically about the same, it seems to me the shadow end of the K-5s dynamic range is better than the K-3s.
There is no such thing as the "shadow end of the K-5s dynamic range".

All sensors are linear in their response. Different JPEG engines use different tone curves and the latter have an impact on shadow detail, highlight roll off, etc. But cameras like the K-5 and the K-3 should not be compared with respect to their JPEG engines.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
The added resolution of the K-3 is enough to give you more resolution from an 18-135 than you'd get with any lens you can name on a K-5.
According to the Photozone test, the K-5's sensor easily outresolves the 18-135 at the long end.

What support do you have for your claim?
07-06-2014, 07:41 AM - 1 Like   #33
Pentaxian
Driline's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: IOWA Where the Tall Corn Grows
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,664
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Hi Driline. I know you're reading this.
Buy the K-3.
Then sell something. Buy the FA31, then the FA77. You know it has to happen.
Yes....Yes it must happen that way.....as I slowly watch Sandy's pocket watch swing slowly back and forth in front of me as I fall into another LBA trance.........
07-06-2014, 09:01 AM   #34
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 40,442
QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
There is no such thing as the "shadow end of the K-5s dynamic range".

All sensors are linear in their response. Different JPEG engines use different tone curves and the latter have an impact on shadow detail, highlight roll off, etc. But cameras like the K-5 and the K-3 should not be compared with respect to their JPEG engines.


According to the Photozone test, the K-5's sensor easily outresolves the 18-135 at the long end.

What support do you have for your claim?
Yes right every sensor uses exactly the same chemical composition, is fabricated exactly the same way, and and all come off the same wafer. it's absolutely impossible for different sensors to have different characteristics. That's why canon sensors have exactly the same response as Nikon sensors and Sony sensors. IN fact ti doesn't matter what sensor you buy or what camera you use. Damn those Foveons have a good jpeg engine. <Sarcasm off>

I use exclusively RAW dude. I'm don't know anything about anybody's jpeg engine, and I certainly wouldn't discuss it in a post about different sensors.

I mean , really, I talk about my experience shooting two different sensors and implementations side by side, and you offer what? Theoretical hogwash. You're misleading people.

Once a month I look at the folks on my ignore list and see if their still spouting garbage... see ya in a month.


Last edited by normhead; 07-06-2014 at 09:07 AM.
07-06-2014, 10:15 AM - 1 Like   #35
Veteran Member
yorik's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Scotts Valley, CA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 991
QuoteOriginally posted by mikeSF Quote
Oh, the decisions! Feeding your LBA or CBA.
And eventually, you have to deal with your CPA...
07-06-2014, 05:32 PM   #36
Veteran Member
Na Horuk's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Slovenia, probably
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 11,186
Do you really need one of these things soon? Because it might make sense to wait just a little bit to see what Pentax does next. At this point, anything is possible. Some say an FF is coming this autumn, some say the FA limiteds will get a revamp (HD coatings, etc.). And some are waiting for prime lenses in the 21-31mm range to be announced. Then again, its quite likely they are all wrong
Personally, I would get the lens, unless the K-3 has a specific feature you find is missing on your current camera. Lenses hold their value quite well, too. But I have no experience with the K-3 or that specific lens, so what do i know
07-06-2014, 05:39 PM - 1 Like   #37
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 40,442
Everyone thinks they know something....that they've got it all figured out. I was like that once. The only thing is, if we remember the K-3, two weeks before it was announced stuff started getting leaked, websites with specs were discovered, etc. etc... so my only bet is, on the odd chance there is an FF in the works, it''s more than 2 weeks away from the announcement which will be at least a month before release, so, I'm not thinking anything is going to happen this summer.

Which is usually a sure sign something is going to happen this summer. I have knack for coming out on the wrong end of these things. This officially replaces my "before the end of June", prediction.

07-06-2014, 06:42 PM   #38
Pentaxian
Class A's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 11,250
QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Some say an FF is coming this autumn, some say the FA limiteds will get a revamp (HD coatings, etc.)
One thing is certain: The FA Limiteds are no longer manufactured.

They have been sold from old stock for years now. It is possible that there will be replacement versions, but I don't know anyone who knows anything about that. Even if there will be replacement versions, it is not clear what will happen to the value of the old FA Limiteds. They may become cheaper (I doubt it) or they may become more expensive, once everyone realises that they are truly limited in numbers now.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Yes right every sensor uses exactly the same chemical composition, is fabricated exactly the same way, and and all come off the same wafer. it's absolutely impossible for different sensors to have different characteristics. That's why canon sensors have exactly the same response as Nikon sensors and Sony sensors. IN fact ti doesn't matter what sensor you buy or what camera you use. Damn those Foveons have a good jpeg engine. <Sarcasm off>
I won't respond to that except noting that I'm not misleading people at all.

I never said that all sensors are the same in all aspects. I only said that they all have a linear response, some with a higher noise floor than others, using different colour filter arrays, etc., but all have just one dynamic range number associated to them. It does not make sense to distinguish between "shadow dynamic range" and "highlight dynamic range". Such characteristics are introduced by converting the RAW data in to a viewable format, whether it is done by the camera's JPEG engine or a RAW converter, in any event is independent from the sensor.
07-06-2014, 07:03 PM   #39
Veteran Member
noelpolar's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Goolwa, SA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,310
QuoteOriginally posted by Driline Quote
Yes....Yes it must happen that way.....as I slowly watch Sandy's pocket watch swing slowly back and forth in front of me as I fall into another LBA trance.........
If your like me, in that you can afford to spend a grand or two (or so) each year on a hobby that gives you pleasure, and you have itchy fingers at the moment, then I can see how the K3 will give you a sense of joy (in a way) rediscovering all your existing great lenses....... by the time this novelty somewhat fades it will be time for the 31 or something........mmm Xmas/black Friday.....

I can see some value in having two camera bodies as well from time to time. Down the road if pentax do release a FF ...... then to have a K3 and a FF would subsequently be pretty nice given the lenses you have....does a F*300 on a K3 make it a F*450? or with crop factor a F*675??

I can recommend having a go at the monthly challange...... it tends to slow down the incessant LBA......it's sought of encouraged me to go and look for beauty around me instead of reading up on stuff I end up wanting to try/buy..plus I've pushed things far enough for now!

Whatever you decide.....life's pretty good eh?

Last edited by noelpolar; 07-06-2014 at 08:46 PM.
07-07-2014, 03:57 AM   #40
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 27,571
It would be really hard for me to decide which I like more, my K3 or the FA 31 limited. Probably the FA limited, but it is close. I did struggle some with auto focus issues on my original K5, but I have a K5 II (and a K3) and both have taken care of those issues quite nicely. The K3 is definitely a more responsive camera with faster operation than either of the K5 models I have used, but I am more than happy to take a K5 II out shooting. Other than resolution, I really don't see much difference in sensor output between my K5 II, K-01 and K3. They all produce nice files.

If you like the 30mm-ish focal length, then I would probably go with the lens, though. K3 body will come down in price over time and surely there will be used ones hitting the market closer to the end of the year that are cheaper than anything available currently. On the other hand, I haven't seen FA 31 prices drop. I bought one for 900 dollars, which seemed really pricey at the time, but in the current market would be a steal for a brand new lens.
07-07-2014, 06:55 AM   #41
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 40,442
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It would be really hard for me to decide which I like more, my K3 or the FA 31 limited. Probably the FA limited, but it is close. I did struggle some with auto focus issues on my original K5, but I have a K5 II (and a K3) and both have taken care of those issues quite nicely. The K3 is definitely a more responsive camera with faster operation than either of the K5 models I have used, but I am more than happy to take a K5 II out shooting. Other than resolution, I really don't see much difference in sensor output between my K5 II, K-01 and K3. They all produce nice files.

If you like the 30mm-ish focal length, then I would probably go with the lens, though. K3 body will come down in price over time and surely there will be used ones hitting the market closer to the end of the year that are cheaper than anything available currently. On the other hand, I haven't seen FA 31 prices drop. I bought one for 900 dollars, which seemed really pricey at the time, but in the current market would be a steal for a brand new lens.
Ya, funny how the K-3 didn't really knock the K-5 out of the water, the way the K-5 did everything before it. It is nicer to use... but from an IQ perspective...it's not standing out and for a lot of shooting, the things it improved on are nice to have, not have to have things. I almost feel like the K-5 is the workhorse and the k-3 is the luxury item. I'm still thinking of upgrading my k-5 to a K-5II, instead of a another k-3 for back-up.
07-07-2014, 08:28 AM   #42
Pentaxian
bdery's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Quebec city, Canada
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 9,342
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
funny how the K-3 didn't really knock the K-5 out of the water, the way the K-5 did everything before it. It is nicer to use... but from an IQ perspective...it's not standing out and for a lot of shooting, the things it improved on are nice to have, not have to have things. I almost feel like the K-5 is the workhorse and the k-3 is the luxury item.
The sensor evolution is indeed not that big (except the resolution of course). What changed is under the hood : metering sensor, AF-C, number of focus points, multi-zone white balance, data stored in the USER modes (THAT alone is wonderful), multi-exposure options and modes, burst mode, AA filter, mirror operation, better video, 2 memory cards, USB 3, the list goes on.

But for comparing two RAW images? Again, except for the resolution, the difference is marginal, I agree.
07-07-2014, 09:13 AM   #43
Pentaxian
Class A's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 11,250
QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
... data stored in the USER modes (THAT alone is wonderful)
You made me curious.

What data is stored in USER modes that isn't stored by the K-5 (II)?
07-07-2014, 10:08 AM   #44
Pentaxian
bdery's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Quebec city, Canada
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 9,342
QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
You made me curious.

What data is stored in USER modes that isn't stored by the K-5 (II)?
Everything that was previously controlled by a lever, and is now button-driven. For instance, the AF mode, type of AF coverage (spot, select, auto 9 or auto 27, etc). Those are big ones. For some other stuff, I'm comparing with the K20D, so I'm not sure about the K-5, but now I can store program line, resolution, RAW vs JPEG, lens correction settings, in fact almost everything gets stored.
07-07-2014, 10:25 AM   #45
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 40,442
So umm, on a different topic... What's that big "old days" festival in Quebec City like? I've always thought it would be cool to zip into the old part of Quebec city for a photo shoot.. what say you?
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
fa, k-mount, k3, k3 or fa, lenses, pentax lens, purchase, slr lens
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FA 31 or DA*16-50 AND FA 35/2 Driline Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 21 08-17-2014 05:19 PM
FA 31-To buy or not to buy? jbennett1971 Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 37 06-21-2014 06:28 PM
Purchase a K3 or wait? sccarter Welcomes and Introductions 8 11-29-2013 09:25 AM
To 31 or not to 31, that is my question. feilb Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 137 04-05-2011 08:42 PM
Poll; Which lens should Fishy buy: DFA 100 2.8 or FA 31 1.8 ltd? fishy Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 31 02-16-2010 05:16 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:40 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top