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07-14-2014, 12:45 AM   #1
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For landscape, 15 or 21? Judging from IQ only

Hello!
I recently bought my self a K5IIs along with a 18-135WR and a DA*60-250 for a upcoming big trip into the wild (hence the WR). I Tested it all and even thoe the 18-135 lacks alot of contrast and so forth pictures can still be salvaged with not to much PP to them

Now my budget has increased (or was it the LBA? We shall never now) and i am planning on buying i fixed wide or short normal lens for those big landscapes when i have the time take them and it dont rain.
So i have been looking (and googling) at both the 15 and the 21, now i find both ranges usefull and one over the other i would not consider a loss.

What i want to do with them is mount them on the K5IIs, tripod and most likely a ND filter on it every now and then. And get those big scenes.

So now i have googleŽd alot and they seem to be a pretty even match judging from the hits i gotten. Would you guys have any inputs on this? Thanks in advance!

07-14-2014, 01:04 AM   #2
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I would say that the 15mm generally gets more favorable reviews:

Pentax-DA 21mm F3.2 Review - Introduction - In-Depth Reviews
Pentax-DA 15mm F4 Limited Review - Introduction - In-Depth Reviews
HD vs. SMC Pentax Limited Primes - Introduction - In-Depth Reviews

With that said, both are great lenses. Keep in mind that there's a considerable difference between the field of view of the two lenses.

Adam
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07-14-2014, 01:24 AM   #3
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But really long story short you will work with what ever you have got. Composition isn't a science, it's an art. Different FOV will just have you being creative in different ways.
07-14-2014, 02:16 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by SweFin Quote
Hello!
I recently bought my self a K5IIs along with a 18-135WR and a DA*60-250 for a upcoming big trip into the wild (hence the WR). I Tested it all and even thoe the 18-135 lacks alot of contrast and so forth pictures can still be salvaged with not to much PP to them
I love the DA 15, but haven't used the 21. Very few people are ever disappointed with the 15, but I concede that 21mm is a nice focal length for both landscape and street scenes. Depends what you want to shoot.

I'm really surprised though by your comment that the 18-135 "lacks a lot of contrast". I find quite the opposite; great contrast and very vibrant colours.

07-14-2014, 03:04 AM   #5
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I have both of them, the DA21 came to me first.
Both are great lenses.
For me it's easier to get a sharp shot from DA21, the photo is simply sharp and contrasty corner to corner from f/5.6 to f/11.
But Since I found how to get somehow same sharpness out of DA15, that's the one I normally use.
I guess being f/4, the DA15 simply has a vast DoF even wide open (where your camera will try to auto focus) So I think (at least on my copy) the AF is totally useless, because when you point it to something in far distance, the AF stops before infinity focus, you'll see some of the farther things in photo are fuzzy and not sharp!
you should use manual focus, not by looking through VF, but putting the focus on desired focal plane, considering hyperfocal! Done. ( just my 2cents )
07-14-2014, 03:07 AM   #6
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That is a matter of personal preference, really. As Adam says, the field of view is quite different. I find the 21 to be more of an all-rounder than the 15 is.

Personally I would get the 15 first. I don't find it as versatile as the 21, but it does some things that the 18-135 simply can't do. The 21 doesn't really do anything the 18-135 can't (apart from doing it a bit better, and being a lot smaller!).

That said, you'll "need" both sooner or later anyway

Edit: Yes, "Judging from IQ only"... What is IQ? I don't know which has the highest resolution or distort the least (and I don't really care), but the 15 has fantastic contrast, no matter the lighting, due to it's flare resistance. For me that makes the 15 "better" than the 21. The 21 is also very good in this regard, but not quite like the 15.

Last edited by savoche; 07-14-2014 at 05:08 AM.
07-14-2014, 03:16 AM   #7
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15mm focal length is more unusual and thus can be more "stunning", while 21mm is more generally versatile and easier to handle. The problem is quantifying IQ. Is resolution and CA all there is to it? Anyway, I doubt either of these lenses would disappoint you, unless you get a damaged copy. Of course, for landscapes you need to use 2sec timer/remote trigger, tripod, lowest ISO, hyperfocal..
Also, feel free to look at the user lens reviews, the sample photo gallery, and the lens clubs:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/122-lens-clubs/86234-15mm-limited-controls-my-mind-club.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/46831-post-your-da21mm-photos-here-4.html

I have a Samyang 14mm, and really want to get the DA 21mm, for its not-so-unwieldy wide angle. Wide, but not ultra.



Last edited by Na Horuk; 07-14-2014 at 07:51 AM.
07-14-2014, 04:30 AM - 1 Like   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by SweFin Quote
Hello!
I recently bought my self a K5IIs along with a 18-135WR and a DA*60-250 for a upcoming big trip into the wild (hence the WR). I Tested it all and even thoe the 18-135 lacks alot of contrast and so forth pictures can still be salvaged with not to much PP to them

Now my budget has increased (or was it the LBA? We shall never now) and i am planning on buying i fixed wide or short normal lens for those big landscapes when i have the time take them and it dont rain.
So i have been looking (and googling) at both the 15 and the 21, now i find both ranges usefull and one over the other i would not consider a loss.

What i want to do with them is mount them on the K5IIs, tripod and most likely a ND filter on it every now and then. And get those big scenes.

So now i have googleŽd alot and they seem to be a pretty even match judging from the hits i gotten. Would you guys have any inputs on this? Thanks in advance!




I don't have experience with 21mm, but spend some time to made test and review for 15mm. I try to present it, in different situation, may be, will be usefully for You.

review is here (lot of pictures in HD res)



07-14-2014, 08:46 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by mtux Quote
I guess being f/4, the DA15 simply has a vast DoF even wide open (where your camera will try to auto focus) So I think (at least on my copy) the AF is totally useless, because when you point it to something in far distance, the AF stops before infinity focus, you'll see some of the farther things in photo are fuzzy and not sharp!
you should use manual focus, not by looking through VF, but putting the focus on desired focal plane, considering hyperfocal!
This is a very important point about the DA 15, which I have also noticed with my copy.
However, for landscape, I use CDAF from live view, which avoids the problems inherent in the PDAF system.
07-14-2014, 11:11 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul the Sunman Quote
I love the DA 15, but haven't used the 21. Very few people are ever disappointed with the 15, but I concede that 21mm is a nice focal length for both landscape and street scenes. Depends what you want to shoot.

I'm really surprised though by your comment that the 18-135 "lacks a lot of contrast". I find quite the opposite; great contrast and very vibrant colours.

THank you all for your inputs. The hat seems to lean towards the 15/4 much due to what seems extraordinary flare resistance.

Paul: I was a bit unclear there, appologies. I find it suprisingly good at walkarounds in the city, museums and just amazing at closeups att all ranges, but my attempts with shots near infinity has not rendered as good as it does at other distances.

---------- Post added 07-15-14 at 09:18 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mtux Quote
I have both of them, the DA21 came to me first.
Both are great lenses.
For me it's easier to get a sharp shot from DA21, the photo is simply sharp and contrasty corner to corner from f/5.6 to f/11.
But Since I found how to get somehow same sharpness out of DA15, that's the one I normally use.
I guess being f/4, the DA15 simply has a vast DoF even wide open (where your camera will try to auto focus) So I think (at least on my copy) the AF is totally useless, because when you point it to something in far distance, the AF stops before infinity focus, you'll see some of the farther things in photo are fuzzy and not sharp!
you should use manual focus, not by looking through VF, but putting the focus on desired focal plane, considering hyperfocal! Done. ( just my 2cents )

This i must learn more about i see. But now when i think about it, was the some issue using filters on the 15/4? I realy want to be able to use ND filter. Or perhaps i just remember it wrong.

Ventzy: Some nice shots there!
07-14-2014, 11:42 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by SweFin Quote
This i must learn more about i see. But now when i think about it, was the some issue using filters on the 15/4? I realy want to be able to use ND filter. Or perhaps i just remember it wrong.
I haven't use ND filters on DA15, but it was totally OK on my DA21, even stacking 3 77mm filters gave me no issue!
07-15-2014, 07:29 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by SweFin Quote
THank you all for your inputs. The hat seems to lean towards the 15/4 much due to what seems extraordinary flare resistance.

Paul: I was a bit unclear there, appologies. I find it suprisingly good at walkarounds in the city, museums and just amazing at closeups att all ranges, but my attempts with shots near infinity has not rendered as good as it does at other distances.

---------- Post added 07-15-14 at 09:18 AM ----------




This i must learn more about i see. But now when i think about it, was the some issue using filters on the 15/4? I realy want to be able to use ND filter. Or perhaps i just remember it wrong.

Ventzy: Some nice shots there!
I think the issue you may be referring to with ND filters on the DA 15 is with the square types that come with a holder and various sized rings. I have one of these sets (cheapo one) and the problem is that the DA 15 has a built in hood that protrudes slightly even when not extended. This means you can't get the square filters on. The solution for me was to get a cheap 49mm UV filter, smash the glass out and effectively use it as an extension. I can then fit the square filter onto that. So I have my lens, an empty 49mm filter and then the square filter screwed on the end.


Doing this does give a very slight vignette though. What I have now decided to do eventually is to just get myself some 49mm screw on ND filters rather than use the square ones. 49mm is common across the DA Limited range and also quite a few of my A and other prime lenses so I know I'll be able to use them on any of my lenses I'll be doing landscape stuff with.
07-15-2014, 08:42 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by SweFin Quote
THank you all for your inputs. The hat seems to lean towards the 15/4 much due to what seems extraordinary flare resistance.

Paul: I was a bit unclear there, appologies. I find it suprisingly good at walkarounds in the city, museums and just amazing at closeups att all ranges, but my attempts with shots near infinity has not rendered as good as it does at other distances.

---------- Post added 07-15-14 at 09:18 AM ----------




This i must learn more about i see. But now when i think about it, was the some issue using filters on the 15/4? I realy want to be able to use ND filter. Or perhaps i just remember it wrong.

Ventzy: Some nice shots there!

Not so much any issue with using round filters on the DA15 except note that some of the "slim design" meant for wide angle lenses can foul with the sliding hood scraping the felt lining.
If I remember correctly I think it is the B+W slim filter in particular and a couple of other brands too. (it would also scrape on the sliding hood of the DA35macro and FA77).

The normal design of the 49mm filters are OK and do not appreciably cause more vignetting in the corners of the frame than there already is at f4.
see pic attached to see how the frame of the filter (a normal thickness polariser) fits with the lens with the hood extended. The filter is only just into the corner of the hood profile. The other filter pictured is an ND400x which is a bit thinner frame.



As mentioned by others, the square filters are a little extra challenge due to the hood design.


For landscapes both work great and especially the DA15 with "classic" (cliche?) wide angle composition with foreground subject and background both in focus - hey it works.

For people shots I think the DA21 works better. I use the DA15 a lot and take it always. The DA21 reasonably often but admittedly this is mainly when I'm not wanting to carry around a 18-135.
07-17-2014, 02:53 PM   #14
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Shame-update;
I Took my 18-135 out for a few days more of hard testing and looked it over. I had switched lenses on that initial shoot and did not remember it. The bad pics was from the DA*60-250. I cant help but beeing slightly bothered by this so i did a second run with the 60-250 aswell... still the same. 18-135 delivers.
07-20-2014, 02:28 AM - 1 Like   #15
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I have both the DA15 & DA21 (the DA21 for a longer time).

The 21 has a more usable focal lens, usefull in many more cases. it has very nice colors, it is visibly sharper than the 15. It does wonderfull closeups too with a good 3D effect.

The DA15 has the wonderfull starbusts, I mean the SMC version that is more expensive (at least here in France) and now replaced by the HD version. It is required when you want to go wider and get dramatic perspective effects. The rendering is quite different to the 21... The DA15 rendering before post processing has very good colors but also some softness in the transition and fine details. The sharpness is here but there is no pixie dust at all, at least before you move some cursors on my copy. The DA21 get very constrasty shoots very easily.

Both are weak on corners due to field curvature.


If you really want the wider, more dramatic perspective and near perfect flare resistance you need the DA15. For the starbust, get the SMC version, not the new HD. You'll loose some sharpness and will crop more, more often (or need a different lens). For architecture and cities that may be a better choice has you may want to fit the building entirerly.

If you want something with less extreme perspective, that you can use in more situations, that has more detail/sharpness the DA21 would be better. In a nature landscape I would say you don't need as much to be very wide, often on the contrary any focal lens can get some interresting results and using 21 instead of 15 will help fill the frame with interresting things.

How I feel it now is that my DA21 is my default walkaround lens, the DA15 is here ready to replace it on the occasionnal very wide shoot... While the 50-135 is ready for all the tele shoots. But most of the time, I don't use tripod.
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