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07-15-2014, 11:58 PM   #1
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advice or opinions on samyang 14 aspherical

Hi

i am new here and also quite new in photography.

currently i keep eye on one samyang 14mm uwa lens for k30 i use. Lens price is 200+ EURs usedin good condition and 340 EUR new from stock here in Europa. customs make it very hard to buy from Korea or us eBay.

went to shop, and because they have no rentals, could test it only a bit inside and also on street directly near magazine.
have done research last days on 12-24mm range and covered nearly all reviews comparisons possible (took me 6 days). i allready knew several points to look after, while testing, and just wanted "experience".

what i have find out.
Best performers:
1. should be Pentax SMC DA 15 (excellent lens, (DA14 is not even close to it) very beautiful star-efect, hi flare resistance, good details and good color rendering, small size and similar distortion level, no CA)
HD version of it is considered weaker and even priced lower a bit.
price 699 EUR as new
2. Samyang 14 aspherical. Its manual, it's sharp, well built and quite solid lens, weights 550g and is quite heavy in actual use. Yes there is A setting in AV mode. But i was surprised that K30 asked to input focal length, there is no 14mm in menu. I can choose 12 or 15 on dial, no 14mm, stayed with 15.
As people are saying, it is very unreliable to detect focusing. I have nothing against manual, but in all shots i was unsure, is it in focus or not. (and missed a lot, normaly i have ca 80 in focus handheld whatever length to 135)
maybe most annoying for me was "gut feel unsafe" experienced with lens.
As most should be "in focus" on longer than 3 meters (infinity for this one), that should not matter too much on landscape? tried to use live view (i normaly never do on daylight) and found it not helpful at all on focusing.
Colors are good, but i was not after it this time. (had no time to play around with WB situations, without making shop personal too worried)
Now, there are flares, and they are massive. i did specially around 50 shots directly to sun in/close to frame, see images. Yes, you can shot to sun directly, but flare is not rendered beautiful as in DA 15 by far. You can have some kind of artifacts in frame as long sun is close to 10-15 degrees to frame. (personally i liked some of em)(There is possibly flare is present IF you use default lens-hood provided)
In terms of distortions DA 15 and Samyang 14 are quite close, both should be easily (i must learn) correctable by darktable.
3. Samyang 16 mm similar, more rectangular uwa. (not tried yet, but should be very close to above)
4. DA 12-24 uwa. Tried, but did'nt get to it. it's sharp, even bigger than samyang 14. need quite heavy processing on everything below 18 mm. actualy on images i took, most usable were in 20-21 mm range. Experienced one day, so i am sure i could not get use of it well. Expensive 900-1000 EUR-s here.


Now, considering all of above and looking those (not framed not technical made in hurry handheld not balanced and etc - remember i had no time to play thoroughly) samples, is it worth my 200+ euros as used against DA 15 proposed around 700 EUR-s but half the weight? Excamples are reduced, not othervise PP-d

In my opinion it is somewhere 4 or 4- because of physical handling in 5 grade scale. I am worried, that i will spend 2-3 times more effort to have a picture with this lens. Maybe i am wrong.

So, what do you think?


Last edited by Vihmameister; 01-04-2015 at 05:16 AM.
07-16-2014, 03:03 AM   #2
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You already know a lot. With Samyang, it is sharp and pretty great overall, but the build/QC has some problems. By this I mean that lenses with decentered elements or miscalibrated distance scales on focus ring are not that uncommon. So if you buy a Samyang, make sure it the image quality is consistent across the frame, the DoF is parallel to the frame, and that the distance scales are at least a little accurate (sometimes people find infinity to be near the 2m mark, for example). You can do the focus ring adjustment yourself, there are forums posts and also blogs out there about this. You also learn how to focus the lens after you use it for some time. This is also why its good to have some type of warranty or something, so you can return it or have it repaired
The Samyang 14mm is great, I enjoy using mine, but it is also sometimes inconsistent. You get what you pay for and the low cost becomes noticeable somewhere.
07-16-2014, 04:35 AM   #3
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You can find a new or used DA14 for less than the price of a new Samyang (I did get a new one), I might agree that the DA15ltd is a better lens albeit slower than the other.
Heavy flaring on your pics btw. Difficult conditions however.

Seb.

Last edited by bassek; 07-17-2014 at 12:59 AM.
07-16-2014, 04:53 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by bassek Quote
You can find a new or used DA14 for less than the price of a new Samyang (I did get a new one),
What? A new DA 14mm under 300euro?? I dont think that's possible here in the EU (quickly checked local ebay. The used prices for the DA 14mm go from 400-600euro, but sometimes it does go as low as 250-300 euro. Interesting, if you are patient enough)
The Samyang 16mm f2.0 might be easier to focus, but, since it is not quite as wide and it is a little faster aperture. Main thing against the 16mm is that it is not a full frame lens, but if you don't shoot film, it won't make a difference anyway.

Oh, and SR! When you input the focal length and 14mm is not an option, I input 12mm. That way the SR will undercompensate, rather than overcompensate. This means the SR won't be as effective as it would be if you could input 14mm, but it won't overdo it and cause its own blur. I always input nearest wider focal length when I can't input the exact one. And yes, it is silly that on many Pentax cameras you cannot input focal lengths like 14mm, which is not that uncommon these days..

Edit: And I hope you took a look at some reviews here (user reviews and in-depth review):
https://www.pentaxforums.com/userreviews/samyang-prime-lenses-c114.html


Last edited by Na Horuk; 07-16-2014 at 07:40 AM.
07-16-2014, 05:41 AM   #5
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Mine was 3500 SEK on sale in Sweden in a small brick&mortar shop (last copy that had been on the shelf for long). So I haggled a bit and got it for roughly 340euros.
But it was a bargain, I admit I was lucky. They seem to go at 350eur used now.

Good point about SR and under compensation.

Seb
07-16-2014, 07:17 PM   #6
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Get a Saturday job and save for the 15. It's worth every penny.

Look at the NO flare on this:


The other thing people sometimes don't realize about the 15 is that it focuses really close. These flowers are really tiny:


And the reason my 15 will never leave my side is best summed up in this image:
07-18-2014, 01:05 AM   #7
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hi again, tried to calm my mind by shooting outside... while processing LBA in backround
Thank you for suggestions made.

QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
I enjoy using mine, but it is also sometimes inconsistent
I looked your pictures, they are nice. also i searched flicker and web for samples. That is sure that experienced user can make wonderful pictures even with broken bottle bottom, if he is careful enough not to cut himself. Less joking, what kind inconsistency you experienced? Or lets ask so, do you feel this lens is limiting you doing something in real world. Are there situations you start framing with eye and then - abort- not with this lens...
Everybody seems to agree that Samyang is great for night and stellar shooting pictures and on tripod and etc. But how do you experience it in real landscape? People from older posts say, there are no filters for this lens. (actually i think it is possible to use filter, a bit of self hacking- but that already means compromise in use) Pentax and digital cameras are in my opinion very weak against light gradients when it is before dawn. You get or sky or landscape texture, not both. I see there no viable option besides using some kind of graduated ND filters. Going ones into hood is not option here. 77mm filter diameter makes filter holder big and heavy.

And once more - flares. I am a bit tired to shoot only down-light because avoiding overexposure or flares
This lens looks to be very prone to em. Will bigger lens-hood (even self made) help?
Why i am still considering this lens is - maybe i start shoot film. then i need to have something without vignetting and barrels.
Otherwise i had DA15mm already. Missing choice with DA, no problem you sell it like new, same with Samyang- i doubt.

QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
When you input the focal length and 14mm is not an option, I input 12mm. That way the SR will undercompensate, rather than overcompensate. This means the SR won't be as effective as it would be if you could input 14mm, but it won't overdo it and cause its own blur.
Thanks, that's good to know. i think we as users should make some kind of feedback to Pentax (Rikoch) to get what we need. other thing i would call is color accuracy (sky, clowds and water with sky- this is why i am considering film)

QuoteOriginally posted by Kozlok Quote
Get a Saturday job and save for the 15. It's worth every penny
very nice pictures (by the way, i am one who knows it can be used as bockeh ), but no-no-no- no Saturday job.
I enjoy my freedom. My Saturdays are for photo-shooting and hanging in nature, not for blood, tears and heavy-duty.

Overall, yes i have looked every kind reviews here, on dixo, dp and several other non-brickwall-photo-sites, searched pictures on all of items compared, tested lenses i can rent by, but... here, in Estonia we have only one reseller for samyang and rental is not in their policy portfolio. I am not rich enough to buy and let it rotten somewhere without use. I am patient enough not to rush into buying, but not patient enough to wait after customs 2-3 months to buy one from outside of Europa. And if i consider (and i still do) film.. then DA15 does not help me on film body. What makes choice even harder. HD 15 as new is 10 0EUR less here than old SMC DA 15 still available. /HD is 599 while SMC is 699 Eur) i would say, unfair.
Even tried panorama as option to replace need for wide angle... but in some way it doesn't feel right.
(Some samples here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kriimurohelisedsilmad/14676586874/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kriimurohelisedsilmad/14676057954/in/photostream/)

So what i am looking is for real world experience with good lenses - like Na Horuk provided.


Last edited by Vihmameister; 07-18-2014 at 01:28 AM.
07-18-2014, 05:13 AM   #8
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What I mean by inconsistent is that on my copy, not all sides of the photo are equally sharp, and sometimes I get a photo with a slight blur and don't know why (fast shutter, good aperture, but still not as good as could be). Using a tripod, 2 sec timer, and DoF preview helps a lot, but you need to take the time and learn the lens. And post processing can really make this lens shine. You can even reduce distortion fairly well in post.
About filters, I have heard that Cokin is making some filters that can be used on the Samyang, with a filter holder.
Lens hood, you are right. The lens hood on this lens is made for full frame, not for APSC, so you could in theory make the hood smaller and improve contrast and flare resistance for crop sensors. But in my experience, this lens is pretty good with flare. It has good coatings.
Distortion - yes, this lens has quite some distortion, more than average 14mm. But this is only a problem in certain types of photography, like architecture. You can shoot raw and fix distortion in post.
Regarding buying this lens in your own country, I dunno. You can try local ebay and amazon and similar websites. And make sure you search for the other brand names of this lens: Falcon, ProOptic, Vivitar, Bower, Rokinon, Walimex,.. maybe in your country it is sold as something other than Samyang. I knowt that in Germany it is almost always Walimex. But the lenses should all be optically identical. The Vivitar might have a slightly different focusing ring on it. Also, I seem to remember that some Scandinavian countries have good prices for lenses, so maybe it would make sense to import, or make it a photo trip and buy the lens on the way

Last edited by Na Horuk; 07-18-2014 at 05:20 AM.
07-18-2014, 06:14 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Falcon, ProOptic, Vivitar, Bower, Rokinon, Walimex,.
Knew all of them but Walimex, even not heard about such before.
in Scandinavia- no absolutely not. Their living in high standards and are highly payd... tho prices on their markets are same or a bit worse than our local. Trip to closest countries is worth considering.
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