Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
09-12-2016, 09:45 AM   #331
Pentaxian
Zygonyx's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ile de France
Posts: 4,032
QuoteOriginally posted by amazing_universe Quote
Yes agree 150-450 overpriced.
That lens would actually be cheaper if it was all plastic build like the tamy 150-600 or the Sigma non sport version....
I think people aiming at stable quality zooms in challenging environments, are ready to pay for the price.
And the Pentax is no more expensive than it's Canikon counterparts, despite HUGE scale economies for the big boys.... So i can't agree.


Last edited by Zygonyx; 09-12-2016 at 10:22 AM.
09-12-2016, 10:21 AM - 1 Like   #332
Pentaxian
Driline's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: IOWA Where the Tall Corn Grows
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,669
QuoteOriginally posted by noelpolar Quote
Ok.... just to prove you don't need 600mm for wildlife.... heres a wildlife shot from yesterday with a 200mm lens....used my advanced stalking skills to get close.... manual focus as well... he didn't even notice I was there....I'm part wild life ninja!
OMG! Mittens the Kitty! Here...kitty kitty kitty.
09-12-2016, 09:38 PM   #333
Pentaxian




Join Date: May 2009
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,528
What I have noticed over the last year are a great many of the people that own the 300- 600mm $7800- $12000 big guns have supplemented their lens with the sigma and tamron mega zooms. Their deciding factor for this is these lenses are ideal for conditions were taking the larger lenses is either not as cost effective, the location with conditions they are shooting at may put the equipment at risk or having 1 lens that can cover such a large focal range that is ideal for very long treks. You have to remember that on the used market you can find a 150-600 for around $750 can, when compared to the cost of a 200-400 F4 lens its chump change at %10 of the cost. Most in the wildlife photography could almost say they are disposable if you can get 6 years out of the lens. For the wildlife photographer I am around if they need the big gun they will bring them out but when it comes to getting to the location or putting equipment at risk they mainly go for the 150-600 as it take the extreme of shooting conditions to see a real improvement.

My setup before the sigma 150-600 S was using a cropped body and the 300 F2.8 with 1.4, 2x conv, 70-200 f2.8 and the 16-50 F2.8 and that rig went everywhere. Now if I wanted the best out of the 300 2.8 with 2 conv most of the time I stopped down to 1 to 2 stops and that put it in the range of the 150-600 at about the same IQ which you would never see under normal shooting conditions in the wild.

Using the 150-600 on a FF I have went with the 70-200 F4 and a 50mm 1.8 and 28 1.8 and if I compare what I was getting with the first setup to the second it’s a no brainer. That is not to say I am going the sell the 200-400 F4 as there are times that lens is needed but those times are fewer now that I have the 150-600.


All a person has to do is look at what many of the people on wildlife photographic forums are doing and what they are achieving with these 150-600 zooms and ignoring the people that have never touched these lenses because many of them are clueless and live in their own little world
09-13-2016, 12:01 AM   #334
Veteran Member
Dan Rentea's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 1,716
QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
That lens would actually be cheaper if it was all plastic build like the tamy 150-600 or the Sigma non sport version....
I think people aiming at stable quality zooms in challenging environments, are ready to pay for the price.
And the Pentax is no more expensive than it's Canikon counterparts, despite HUGE scale economies for the big boys.... So i can't agree.
I don't know were you look to see the prices, but at B&H the prices for the counterparts (in this category) are:

PENTAX D FA 150-450mm f/4.5-5.6 DC AW - 2.496$
NIKKOR 200-500mm f/5.6E ED VR - 1.396$
Canon 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM - 1.999$
Sigma 150-600mm f/5-6.3 DG OS HSM Sports - 1.999$

So, Pentax is 500$ more expensive than the next 2 most expensive lenses (Canon and Sigma sport). And if you want to buy Nikon, Canon and Sigma lenses second hand...the price difference increases. That doesn't mean that the Pentax lens is not worth the money. Some are willing to pay for it, some others don't. This is why there are alternatives and this is also the reason why third party lenses are selling very well.

If you ask me, Nikon was smart with their 200-500mm lens on which they put a similar price to Tamron/Sigma lenses. Canon just realised that Sigma/Tamron steals customers which are not willing to pay 2.000$ for a lens so it's very possible (according to the latest rumors) to see in the beginning of 2017 a Canon 200-600mm f/4.5-5.6 USM lens. It could be an L lens, so the price will probably be around 2000 - 2500$, but it will fill the gap between 400 and 600mm (and when I'm talking about filling the gap, I'm referring to "budget" lenses, not about those 10.000$ lenses).

So I hope to see a rebadge Tamron 150-600mm lens in Pentax mount, priced at around 1000 - 1300$.


Last edited by Dan Rentea; 09-13-2016 at 01:02 AM.
09-13-2016, 01:51 AM   #335
Veteran Member




Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,854
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Ditto, although I stuck with him a lot longer. I've done my duty to god and my country on this one.
That the best that can happen here honestly, being Boriscleto'd™. You can wear it as a badge of honour and peace.

If we can notice there was really only 1 person here that couldn't admit that maybe yes, you can get a decent shoot from something else than a Pentax lens at time, only 1 guy that was insisting on providing noisy picture as example of the best of the best...
09-13-2016, 01:55 AM   #336
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 15,132
What's amazing, the Romanian price (before any discount) for the Pentax D FA 150-450 is slightly lower than the B&H price, despite including VAT! (the B&H price doesn't include the sales tax). Makes for about 2430$.
What's even more amazing, is how the Canon 100-400 L IS II is more expensive (due to a recent price increase). But, of course, one could get the cheaper Mark I version.

The Nikon is amazing value, for an OEM lens. A third-party option, well, it's good to have; though I think Contemporary would better fill a (price) gap, than the Sports. But the D FA 150-450, it's not cheap but well done with that, Pentax.
My guess is that Pentax can't really target lower prices with their long lenses, due to the low volumes / small user base. Some wise people who remember the old times told to me that Pentax' long lenses were never cheap.
09-13-2016, 02:35 AM   #337
Veteran Member




Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,854
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
What's amazing, the Romanian price (before any discount) for the Pentax D FA 150-450 is slightly lower than the B&H price, despite including VAT! (the B&H price doesn't include the sales tax). Makes for about 2430$.
What's even more amazing, is how the Canon 100-400 L IS II is more expensive (due to a recent price increase). But, of course, one could get the cheaper Mark I version.

The Nikon is amazing value, for an OEM lens. A third-party option, well, it's good to have; though I think Contemporary would better fill a (price) gap, than the Sports. But the D FA 150-450, it's not cheap but well done with that, Pentax.
My guess is that Pentax can't really target lower prices with their long lenses, due to the low volumes / small user base. Some wise people who remember the old times told to me that Pentax' long lenses were never cheap.
Yeap prices vary country by country. Here a 150-600 from sigma is 1000€ (VAT included), the sport is 1650 on some reputable seller and 1150€ on some less well know site. Old Tamron 150-600 is 1000€ and can be find for 750-800€ on some less known sites.

Pentax 60-250 is 1200-1400€, and DFA150-450 2200€...

K1 is typically 2000€, K70 and K3 700€, K3-II 850€, K50 450€

On the competition, say Nikon: D7200 is 750€, D610 is 1250€ from reputable seller, 1100€ from less well known. D750 is 2000€, but can be found for 1550€.

As I understand on other countries, this is quite different. This is so even better to have choice and adapt to local conditions.

The thing is the public price is far from the price, Canon, Nikon or Pentax get. The things are expensive also because they may stay months (sometime years) in inventory. Out of the 2200-2300€ for a 150-450, Pentax may get only 1000€ in the end and to recoup R&D etc this mean that the lens may not cost much more than 200-500€ to make.

They have high suggested prices so that small shops that will have to keep in stock for month can make a profit and of course also as market positionning. That also why they try to prevent low price online, but as this is illegal to have fixed prices in many country, some still sell at the price they want. And of course if you are online and cheaper than the other, you'll sell fast and so you'll be able to make a profit anyway... The only real drawback is that you can't try/see it before buying. But for Pentax this is already the case anyway. None of the lenses I own are available in brick and motar shop near me.


Last edited by Nicolas06; 09-13-2016 at 02:45 AM.
09-13-2016, 02:57 AM   #338
Veteran Member
Dan Rentea's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 1,716
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
What's amazing, the Romanian price (before any discount) for the Pentax D FA 150-450 is slightly lower than the B&H price, despite including VAT! (the B&H price doesn't include the sales tax). Makes for about 2430$.
What's even more amazing, is how the Canon 100-400 L IS II is more expensive (due to a recent price increase). But, of course, one could get the cheaper Mark I version.
I didn't mention romanian prices because last time I did that, people told me that the majority is looking for B&H or Adorama prices.

But the prices in Romania are strange, at least the ones related to photography. You can find (from a reputable store) a D7100 for 806$ and a K3 for 1.103$... But this is a different story, not related to this topic.

Later edit: Nicolas, Pentax DA* 60-250mm is 1.424$ in Romania, while Canon 70-200mm f4 L IS is 1.259$ (or 730$ the one without IS). I'm not sure if DA* 60-250mm is compatible with K1 (not in crop mode) and if it is, I don't know good it is on K1. Kunzite can give us an answer, he has both: K1 and the 60-250mm lens.

Later later edit Nicolas, let it go please. It's not worth it anymore to respond to normhead... It's better/easier to ignore him.

Last edited by Dan Rentea; 09-13-2016 at 03:33 AM.
09-13-2016, 03:10 AM - 1 Like   #339
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 15,132
I'm not sure that the Pentax U.S. market is so much larger than the European one
09-13-2016, 04:42 AM   #340
Forum Member




Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 58
QuoteQuote:
PENTAX D FA 150-450mm f/4.5-5.6 DC AW - 2.496$
NIKKOR 200-500mm f/5.6E ED VR - 1.396$
Canon 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM - 1.999$
Sigma 150-600mm f/5-6.3 DG OS HSM Sports - 1.999$
Nikkor and Canon glasses are both superior than Pentax in terms of IQ. Pentax is almost 1k overpriced.


09-13-2016, 05:07 AM   #341
Veteran Member
Dan Rentea's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 1,716
QuoteOriginally posted by amazing_universe Quote
Nikkor and Canon glasses are both superior than Pentax in terms of IQ. Pentax is almost 1k overpriced.
Nikon lens is cheaper because it's not weather sealed. If it were, probably the price would be around 2000$, as the Canon lens is priced. But as I said, Nikon was smart with the realese of the 200-500mm lens. It has a very good IQ (I've used this lens) at a very good price.

As long as Pentax doesn't have competition from third party lenses... If there were alternatives (I'm not talking about legacy lenses), maybe the price from 150-450mm would have been around 2000$ in US.
09-13-2016, 05:25 AM   #342
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 40,442
QuoteQuote:
My setup before the sigma 150-600 S was using a cropped body and the 300 F2.8 with 1.4, 2x conv, 70-200 f2.8 and the 16-50 F2.8 and that rig went everywhere. Now if I wanted the best out of the 300 2.8 with 2 conv most of the time I stopped down to 1 to 2 stops and that put it in the range of the 150-600 at about the same IQ which you would never see under normal shooting conditions in the wild.
Interesting, I was actually thinking of asking if any one had used a 300 2.8 with converters. My problem with that being it's still so heavy. The A* 300 2.8 doesn't need to be stopped down, at lest not for aberrations, and with an F1.7 AF converter is going to be limited (a limiter is a good thing in this case) AF for 510 ƒ4.5, and sounds a bit sharper than whatever 300 2.8 you were using. Everyone rates it a 10 for everything in the forum.

Interesting your point about the 150-600 on FF. ƒ8 on FF gives you the same DoF as ƒ5.6 on APS-c, so in terms of image quality an argument could be made that you don't even need faster than ƒ6.3 on a full frame camera, and that would be true if it weren't for most AF systems being calibrated for ƒ2.8 and the further you get away from that the more it cripples your AF system. But, many wildlife shots are doable with MF so thats moot in most situations.


The Pentax 560 is also 3kg
There in lies the issue.

That NIkkor 200-500 at 2300 gm looks awesome (and a 4.8 customer rating, that actually is as high as the Pentax 150-450) .... but still more than 825 grams. Now to me, that and a Nikon D7200 would be the way to go were I looking at that type of lens. But, there's no GPS. And I can't tell if there's weather sealing.

All my gear is carried on hikes, on my bike or in pelican cases on canoe trips. I don't leave much stuff at home. In my business, weather sealing is a big deal. Not having it is a deal breaker.

While I'm sure the forums are full of people switching to 150-600 type lenses, I'm not sure what that means. To me, it probably means it's new gear that suits lots of people, and it's cool to post you just bought it. But like the number of Pentax shooters actually using a K-1, you'd think it was a much higher percentage looking at the forum. I tend to watch and interact with people I know. And while there are a couple of 150-600 lenses in use, that vast majority are using either long fast primes or 70-200s with 2x converter.

QuoteOriginally posted by amazing_universe Quote
Nikkor and Canon glasses are both superior than Pentax in terms of IQ. Pentax is almost 1k overpriced.
What's your source for the Nikkor and Canon being better? From the reviews they look to be about the same. With the Pentax having dust sealing and WR.

The Canon EF 100-400 a 2k is APS_c only and shouldn't even be part of the conversation.
The Sigma 150-600 Sport for some reason has the lowest customer rating of the bunch (slightly, and seems to be the only one of the group customers rate as low as a 3 out of5. but also has the highest number of people rating it, so, perhaps not fair. The more copies, the more chance of a bad copy, but 10% of the folks who rated it giving it 3 stars is not good. It's overall rating is. In treating that one of the reviews, the person (who quite liked it thought of it a cheap enough to throw away if damaged. rated 4.6 at amazon.

For 204 amazon dollars more... you get what appears to be a much better built lens, ƒ5.6 with a 4.8 amazon customer ratings and no ratings less than 4 star.

I know you guys are determined to prove the Pentax lens is a stinker, overpriced but, again, these are decisions based on what you value.

All I'm saying here, if you're a newbie looking at these lenses the first thing you should think about is the weight. And it's not just the lens, you have to think "how big a tripod do I need for this sucker." Beyond that, you can go on about different lenses made by different companies, zoom vs prime etc. etc. and the simple fact is anyone of these lenses could be the best trade off for any given shooter.

But his one size fits all thinking "a 150-600 type telephoto is he best choice for the whole world is nonsense.." This Pentax is overpriced." Well it depends on what you value. To me a $2k lens like the Canon that can't be used on their FF camera is a complete rip off.

I'm looking at this stuff thinking, if you already have Pentax gear, the f DA 150-450 looks like a great value. Probably only because I don't own a Nikon system... but, I'm not having the negative type feelings you guys seem to be having comparing features etc.

Starting from scratch, as newbie, if you know that's what you want the Nikon 200-500 might be the way to go. It has the highest Amazon rating of th 3 and is a steal, 5.6 at 500mm. But for me, light weight and weight/performance ratio, and water and dust seals are the big issues.

My DA*200 and 1.4 TC and 1.7x AF adapter gives me 476mm @ f6.3 and 1124 gms. And it doesn't need a tripod. That's another 4 pounds at least saved. That's .423mm per gram, weather and dust sealed. Based on that criteria, I'm not seeing anything better.

So once again, those 150-600 are a great idea, but, independent unbiased research comes up with many other choices that based on other criteria will definitely be better for some, probably most people. And to me , even looking at Nikon, the Nikkor 200-500 ƒ5.6 seems to be the best value out there, if you shoot from your car and shelters. But it still doesn't give you ƒ 2.8 at any setting, even though the front element is big enough to give you 2.8 at 200. That's just part of the waste factor of zooms.

The only reason I'm even thinking of this stuff is the possibility of getting a K-1. A K-1 turns my DA*200 into a 135mm lens....so I need 300mm ƒ2.8 to get the same functionality I have now. The weight of the A*300 2.8 means, you have to look and see what the best you can do at that weight would be. Unfortunately, the cost savings of a 150-600 type lens would be quickly eaten up by the cost of a 28-36 MP Nikon or Canon FF body. The 150-450 only gives me 300 equivalent, but with my 200 and TC, 280mm is my favourite combination (the 1.4 TC), so that could actually work, if the dam thing didn't weigh so much.

Last edited by normhead; 09-13-2016 at 07:03 AM.
09-13-2016, 05:27 AM   #343
Forum Member




Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 58
It seems Pentax is ripping off its loyal Pentaxians.... It is also called greed.
Lets start with DxoMark for IQ compare.
09-13-2016, 05:43 AM   #344
Veteran Member
noelpolar's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Goolwa, SA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,310
QuoteOriginally posted by amazing_universe Quote
It seems Pentax is ripping off its loyal Pentaxians.... It is also called greed.
Lets start with DxoMark for IQ compare.
Here we go.....
09-13-2016, 06:17 AM   #345
Veteran Member
Dan Rentea's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 1,716
QuoteOriginally posted by amazing_universe Quote
It seems Pentax is ripping off its loyal Pentaxians.... It is also called greed.
Lets start with DxoMark for IQ compare.
If we look at the K1's price compared to competition, Pentax is quite cheap.

According to the guys from LensRentals.com, Canon (despite the fact that in my opinion is a little short for BIF on a full frame body) is the best lens at 400mm compared to: Nikon 80-400mm, Nikon 200-500mm, Sigma and Tamron 150-600mm. But then again, they didn't test Pentax 150-450mm.

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/08/the-sort-of-great-400mm-shootout/

Last edited by Dan Rentea; 09-13-2016 at 06:55 AM.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
1.4x, birder, body, canon, canon 7d, color, computer, crop, da*300, density, f6.7, gbh, image, iso, k-mount, k3, lens, pentax, pentax da*300, pentax lens, pentax news, pentax rumors, pixel, pm, post, review, sigma, slr lens, tamron, telephoto af lens, telextender
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
TAMRON 150 - 600 f 5-6.3 for K Mount? SFX Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 3 12-08-2014 12:51 AM
Tamron working on 150-600, too bad not in Pentax mount :( VoiceOfReason Photographic Industry and Professionals 55 08-21-2014 07:51 PM
New Tamron 150-600mm Lens ...N/A for Pentax? CRMassart Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 38 07-13-2014 03:33 PM
For Sale - Sold: Sigma 150-500mm F5-6.3 APO DG OS HSM for PENTAX 150-500 transam879 Sold Items 3 03-24-2014 05:02 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:42 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top