[Giklab]

We have roughly 70 forums and subforums; and that's without counting the lens clubs and social groups. Exactly ONE of those forums is dedicated to the sale of photographic equipment. I hardly think that classifies the entire forum as "just a marketplace".

I agree. It's extremely easy to ignore the marketplace here if you don't like it or have no interest in it. I don't even know where it is on the front page.

[crewl1]

Maybe today i'm in a bad mood,

Perhaps.
Grab lens 173/300, (don't think you've picked that one up in while) and go outside and take some pictures.
Come back when you are in a better mood

[cyberjunkie]

Well, of course nobody is pushing you. You're not made to buy at gunpoint... but that's not the point.
The point is: are the 80% of the marketplace sales in line with the spirit of what i still consider a community?
Of course my opinion on the matter is: NO.
Being a large format lens collector, and having a long experience in the field (call me a lens junkie, i'm in no way offended), i think i have a few good and motivated reasons for it.
I have about 600 Ebay feedbacks, considering that not all the sellers remember to issue a feedback, that multiple purchases done at the same time grant just a single feedback, and that the vast majority of those 600 feedbacks come from lens purchases, i guess i can consider myself as an experienced buyer.
All my A Star glasses, and most of my best MF Pentax lenses, come from a time when i owned a Sinclair, Internet was unheard of, and the first BBS were just starting their activity.
I bought lenses from private parties, from physical shops, from Internet stores, from photografica fairs/swap meets.... none from the marketplace.
I tried. Can't say that i didn't try hard
The few nice deals last a couple of minutes, after that the item is sold! I'm getting old... probably i don't react fast enough
Nevertheless, i'm still capable to score a few nice finds, every now and then. Even a few Buy It Now... but i must say that it's quite uncommon, and that something like 29 out of 30 purchases come from Ebay auctions..
While the large format ones are for the most part collector's item, the optics i buy for my digital Pentax cameras are for actual use, i like to try them all, extensively (if i have enough room in my bags).
If i'm looking for an uncommon lens, most of the times i try the marketplace as my first resource. I love this forum and i like to interact with people who love and appreciate their glasses as much as i do.
The fact that i couldn't bag any purchase speaks volume. I'm either extremely unlucky... or there is something wrong.
I've read all the answers to my OP, and i found many moot points.
- the true amateurs of this forum care about their stuff, so you can expect better than average conditions. Well, on all those Ebay purchases i had just a couple of bad experiences, NEVER with a lens. Most of the times the condition was better than expected
- you know what you buy, and you can be sure that the lens is in Pentax mount. The vast majority of the lenses sold on Ebay are not mislabeled, if one is, usually it's a godsend cause you are likely to buy it for almost nothing! A quick look at the bayonet tells the truth about the mount. If there is no picture of the back of the lens you can ask for one...
- on the marketplace the seller knows about his stuff. Actually i often see plenty of hype, which is something i don't like. If you need to learn about the pros and the cons of a lens, better resort to the immense number of resources available on the Internet. Better not ask the seller! I just found this pearl on the marketplace: we should run to buy overpriced 35mm lenses cause the Pentax full frame is going to be released. I am afraid it won't happen soon, if at all (for the extreme satisfaction of the fanboys who are happier with less than with more).
- it's easier to trust a fellow amateur than an obscure Ebay seller. This is weird: can't see why it would be better than the Paypal refund policy! The couple of times i stepped on a poo i had all my money back, it's hard to say that there is something better...

My opinion is based on facts. Subjective? yes, i agree... but they are facts, coming from a statistically relevant sample, cause i buy many lenses. That's simple. But let's forget all that, my point is another.
I love this forum, even if recently i'm reading too often expressions like "get a life", or similar phrases, in response to a user expressing a different opinion. That's common in other fora, but was virtually absent when i joined pentaxforums.com.
Though most posts are still very friendly, and there is a feeling of being part of a community. I like it so much that it makes me sad to find out that the community-driven mood i appreciate so much is so rare on the marketplace.
As always, YMMV. If you don't see it, then good for you. Different sensibilities are always welcomed.

Perhaps.
Grab lens 173/300, (don't think you've picked that one up in while) and go outside and take some pictures.
Come back when you are in a better mood

Maybe that's the reason... i didn't photograph anything today, just yesterday, most of the afternoon.
Com'on!
That's exactly in the track of "get a life".

cheers

Paolo

[mee]

The marketplace here is a bit of an odd ball. I like to think of it somewhat as the Soup Nazi's restaurant from the TV Show Seinfeld with regard to policy -- one must stand in line, not make eye contact, jump through all the hoops, and not question authority.. then and only then are you allowed your soup and (occasionally bread).

And where the seller is benefited from posting items here, the buyer is not.. in that if there is a dispute, there is little means available to them short of perhaps hiring a lawyer (which costs big money) or dealing with your CC staff where as with ebay one at least has ebay/paypal to go to if a deal goes sour. And I've had to use them before (to which they resolved the situation in my favor).

That said, I sold my K-30 on here without any hiccups although I was lowballed at the time behind the scenes and sold it for a little less than I probably should have in hindsight. People were even offering 200-250 for it and giving me sob stories. Crazy.

In any case, one forum (like Parallax mentioned) does not make up the whole forum. If you're looking to get items at rock bottom prices, then I think you mistake what the Marketplace is about. The only issue I take offense to with the marketplace here is one is not allowed to comment on prices publicly, even if the seller is ripping someone off obviously. As a result, it is almost as if the mod staff WANT newbies to be ripped off... which is upsetting. On other forums, members are allowed to comment on pricing and it ends up a bit more fair across the board in my experiences.

Guess the general rule of thumb is to be careful what you buy and please do your homework... not just on the item/price but on the party with which you are conducting business too.

[monochrome]

I list things I want to sell at a price I'm willing to sell them - guided by the KEH price with a sizable discount. eBay is not a good guide to prices. There is simply too much risk and variance in quality, so there is a priced-in discount there.

Often my item doesn't sell. Often someone makes me an offer that I refuse (politely or rudely, depending). Much more often I look at an item that I want and pass it by - sometimes I pass the same item by MANY times from MANY different sellers because I'm not willing to pay the market price. Sometimes I pay a bit more than I possibly could because I want that specific item (low serial FA Limited, for instance) but I am an informed buyer. Every once in a while I pay less than an item is worth because the seller has listed it at that price. I feel no Judeo-Christian Guilt about that. I dare the OP to reply we should counsel such sellers to adjust their prices upward.

I feel no more obligation to give my lenses away out of any sense of community than I feel an obligation to overpay for an item out a sense of community - the notion is just plain daft.

I've only felt cheated once - and it wasn't clear that I didn't mis-read the offer. I've only had to take an item back once - and I took it back without any comment - due to element mis-alignment. Eric adjusted the colimation and I have a perfect lens now.

However, this IS a community, including the Marketplace, because the vast majority of participants are straight up decent, honest people for whom a handshake is an obligation and to whom personal honor matters.

No set of rules can make a community out of people who lack character.

[Driline]

The only issue I take offense to with the marketplace here is one is not allowed to comment on prices publicly, even if the seller is ripping someone off obviously. As a result, it is almost as if the mod staff WANT newbies to be ripped off... which is upsetting.

Yea, I got in big trouble several times for just using the word "Price" in a comment on the marketplace. I thought the moderators were going to kick me off the forum. You aren't allowed to say Anything regarding price whether it be good or bad. I got in Big trouble for suggesting one seller was offering a "Great Price" on a lens. I know better now though, but it still hurts when I sit .

[crewl1]

That's exactly in the track of "get a life".

Didn't intend that, just trying to lighten your mood.

I am sure there are some good deals and some not so good deals in the marketplace.

Personally I have always had wonderful dealings there and enjoy the the interaction with some very nice people in this forum in general.

My tiny lens collection is primarily made up of purchases from the marketplace, only a small percentage was purchased new.

I enjoy my visits here but I do use the ignore list and that perhaps isolates me from some of the unpleasantness.

I agree with your following statement.

As always, YMMV. If you don't see it, then good for you. Different sensibilities are always welcomed.

[monochrome]

I am not my newbies' keeper - and neither are you.

[Parallax]

...... However, this IS a community, including the Marketplace, because the vast majority of participants are straight up decent, honest people for whom a handshake is an obligation and to whom personal honor matters.

No set of rules can make a community out of people who lack character.

That about says it all.