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View Poll Results: What would you get for wide angle under 400 dollars?
Samyang/Rokinon 16mm f2 1136.67%
Tokina 17mm 3.5 + Sigma 24mm 2.8   00%
Pentax 16-45mm + Sigma 24mm 2.8 1033.33%
Other (explain) 930.00%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

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11-19-2014, 03:52 PM   #16
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Hatiffnatt, those are fantastic shots I'm going to have to think real hard about this...

As for what my intended use is, I've said it in post #10...

QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
my first need is indoor shots when space gets tight. Also, group pictures, and cityscapes. Maybe I'll get into landscapes but it's hard nowadays for me to go out to see much nature... it's usually either a family vacation, or the odd business trip.
So, my impression being that the 16-45 is actually sharper wide open than the DA 15, it would serve a better use for indoors - if I end up going that route. The Samyang still calls my name.

I think spending more than 400 is out of the question. I could make an exception if the DA 15 was really controlling my mind - but at this point it isn't Honestly - I think the Samyang is a better lens. Bigger, and just slightly more distortion and slightly less flare control, yet just slightly better optically overall when you take the whole frame into consideration.

11-19-2014, 11:50 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
So, my impression being that the 16-45 is actually sharper wide open than the DA 15, it would serve a better use for indoors - if I end up going that route. The Samyang still calls my name.

I think spending more than 400 is out of the question. I could make an exception if the DA 15 was really controlling my mind - but at this point it isn't Honestly - I think the Samyang is a better lens. Bigger, and just slightly more distortion and slightly less flare control, yet just slightly better optically overall when you take the whole frame into consideration.
According to Photozone, the DA15 is slightly sharper wide-open than the 16-45. The 16-45 has sharper borders.
11-20-2014, 12:04 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Have you considered the Samyang/Rokinon 14/2.8? It seems to be a well-regarded lens.
I have and love this lens it is sharp from edge to edge and have taken so many photos with it from lightning to Northern lights to some corker landscape shots love this lens to pieces.
11-20-2014, 12:06 AM   #19
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16-45 for versatility, price, sharpness, AF, general walk around, close focus.
I have lots of choices including Takumar primes but that is the one that is on my camera most. Started it on DL2 then K20D now on K3 - just keeps on satisfying and have sold plenty of images from this lens.
Speed is a non issue with bodies capable of low noise ISO.

11-20-2014, 08:53 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
According to Photozone, the DA15 is slightly sharper wide-open than the 16-45. The 16-45 has sharper borders.
That conforms to my experience of the DA 15, except for one thing: the DA 15 produces images that look better, even at web resolution, regardless of whatever edge/corner sharpness issues it may exhibit. The kind of contrast and colors you get out of that lens simply can't be duplicated in post.

An important point to keep in mind is lenses are only better or worse relative to other lenses. If the 16-45 is your best lens, you're going to think it's a pretty good lens (which, in many respects, it is). It's only when compared to better lenses (to wit, the limiteds, the DA* glass, the 12-24, the 10-17, the 17-70) that it doesn't seem quite so good.

QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
That is probably true, but I'm a bit too afraid of SDM failure on the 17-70. Otherwise it would be a perfect lens - or otherwise it would be out of my budget, because the reason why it's so cheap in the used market - 300 and change - is because of SDM
SDM failure is no doubt a legitimate issue, but the DA 16-45 has issues of its own -- namely, barrel wobble problems, which, allegedly, can lead to decentering at wider focal lengths. I never had any such issues with my DA 16-45, but I bought mine brand new and didn't use it much.

Other options to consider in zooms: the FA 20-35 and Tamron 17-50 f2.8. For indoor use, the Tamron is probably the best option among the zooms.
11-20-2014, 09:34 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
That conforms to my experience of the DA 15, except for one thing: the DA 15 produces images that look better, even at web resolution, regardless of whatever edge/corner sharpness issues it may exhibit. The kind of contrast and colors you get out of that lens simply can't be duplicated in post.
I agree. I just wanted to correct a misconception re: sharpness.
11-20-2014, 09:49 AM   #22
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Could I start to perceive a mind control coming over me from the DA 15?

Maybe I should consider selling some other things as well, so get to the DA 15 budget... I'll give this a thought. It's becoming one of my considered options

11-20-2014, 09:50 AM   #23
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I would go with the 16-45. Since most of my wide shots are stopped down, I don't need an f/2.8. I have a Sigma 17-70 and a DA 15 and a DA 10-17. The 16-45 is well spoken for but I needed a longer reach for a walk around. The Sigma does have some pretty visible distortion on the wide end but nothing I haven't been able to correct in PP. 24mm is a size I really like and a lot of my zoom shots end up right around there so I can't question your interest in the Sigma 24/2.8. Since I have two MF 28's and a 25, I have difficulty justifying a purchase.
11-20-2014, 10:04 AM   #24
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I think the poll is kind of an apples to oranges to bananas comparison, it might be why you are having a tough time deciding.

A 16mm manual focus only prime f2 versus a mid grade auto focus 16-45 f4 zoom?
AND you want a lens to use for film/FF? Too many divergent criteria.

First, figure out if you want AF or MF. If even sometimes you'll want AF then the Samyang is out.
Next, where do you shoot? if you are all over the range from 16-45, then a prime is out unless you are willing to buy multiple primes.
Third, the 16-45 isn't even in the same class as the 17-50's - you can read the PF review/comparison for further evidence.
Fourth, are you a F2 one eye in focus junkie or do you shoot more f8-13. Why pay a premium for an F2 lens if you'll never use f2? I can't help but think the Samyang was designed specifically for astrophotogs and not all around everyday shooting.

If it were my $400 it would come down to the Sigma 17-50 and the Tamron 17-50 because they outclass everything else on your list. I had this very same decision to make and went with the Tamron solely because of it's better flare resistance. It's the step child in a bag full of Sigmas, but I'm very happy with it's results.

If you want a semi compromise on all fronts, find a Sigma 20-40. It's full frame and optically on par with the 17-50s, it just doesn't have the range.

Last edited by nomadkng; 11-20-2014 at 10:15 AM.
11-20-2014, 12:28 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by nomadkng Quote
I think the poll is kind of an apples to oranges to bananas comparison, it might be why you are having a tough time deciding.

A 16mm manual focus only prime f2 versus a mid grade auto focus 16-45 f4 zoom?
AND you want a lens to use for film/FF? Too many divergent criteria.

First, figure out if you want AF or MF. If even sometimes you'll want AF then the Samyang is out.
Next, where do you shoot? if you are all over the range from 16-45, then a prime is out unless you are willing to buy multiple primes.
Third, the 16-45 isn't even in the same class as the 17-50's - you can read the PF review/comparison for further evidence.
Fourth, are you a F2 one eye in focus junkie or do you shoot more f8-13. Why pay a premium for an F2 lens if you'll never use f2? I can't help but think the Samyang was designed specifically for astrophotogs and not all around everyday shooting.

If it were my $400 it would come down to the Sigma 17-50 and the Tamron 17-50 because they outclass everything else on your list. I had this very same decision to make and went with the Tamron solely because of it's better flare resistance. It's the step child in a bag full of Sigmas, but I'm very happy with it's results.

If you want a semi compromise on all fronts, find a Sigma 20-40. It's full frame and optically on par with the 17-50s, it just doesn't have the range.
Those are all very fair points... let's see if I can comment a bit on those...

First, I have to say that the 16-45 vs 17-50s discussion is far from settled. There's a few people here in this forum whom I respect very much, and they chose the 16-45 over the third party offerings, and I saw fantastic results from it. Having seen probably thousands of pictures by now and aware of what these cameras can produce, I have to say that I honestly find the Pentax colors more pleasing and I think it's just as sharp as the third party offerings. I know it's all personal opinion... the truth is that I would probably get good results from any of those if I knew well what I was doing

As for the MF vs AF thing... honestly, what *I* prefer are manual focus primes. But if an AF zoom will get me a better 16mm picture than anything that I can afford in the same price range, yeah I will have to consider it. I'm after the final result, more than what it takes me to get there. So why am I even considering the 16-45 when the Samyang 16mm exists in my price range? Simply because the Samyang costs twice as much and I could get something nice with the price difference, if the 16-45 can get me in the ballpark - which in a way I think it does. So my conundrum kind of is, do I want to pay 100% more for a 5% improvement in quality in the Samyang? Also - is the Tokina 17 3.5 going to give me images that are as pleasing at 17mm as the 16-45 will give me, for even a bit less money? Perhaps so! (I'm really only concerned with 15-24mm range, I have 28mm and up covered by other lenses, mostly primes).

The most important question you asked is about what I want it for and style of shooting... I kind of answered a bit of that, but to clarify why I'm comparing apples to oranges... my signature quote kind of describes my shooting style. Life happens, and I happen to take pictures of it. I'm not specialized in any type of photography. A lot of the time I'll be taking pictures of my family - it could be indoors, it could be outdoors, it could be portraits (have the lenses for that) or it could be a group setting (where I would use this lens). It all depends on what life presents to me So sometimes I'll be shooting wide open or a stop or two down because I'll be indoors, other times I'll be outside and want more DOF and shoot at f8 or even f11. Also, we travel sometimes so I'll end up with cityscapes and landscapes. And I also like to walk around during lunch time and shoot whatever catches my eye. Life just happens.

Finally, the film thing is a nice to have but not necessary. I don't shoot so much film that it will make that much of a difference in my decision. The 16-45 does cover the full frame circle at 24mm and up, so that would be good. The Samyang doesn't, but I would get it for extremely good APS-C IQ that I would be able to use even when much more demanding sensors come up - I think.

In the end I'm probably over-thinking. I don't think I'm a very good photographer so I probably won't get results worthy of a magazine cover even if I had the equipment for it... so maybe what I end up with is not quite as important as just continue practicing the basics and making sure I take a lot of pictures.
11-20-2014, 01:19 PM   #26
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i think you need to go on flickr and start looking at what those lenses produce. Probably you already have.
I still favor the 16-45 for its versatility
this is at 16mm
https://www.flickr.com/photos/grispie/6455017977/in/set-72157628279457521
this is at 45mm f4
https://www.flickr.com/photos/grispie/9393933381/in/set-72157634852313692

this said, the DA15 opened up a new world for me
https://www.flickr.com/photos/grispie/11134527586/in/set-72157633745598549
https://www.flickr.com/photos/grispie/14402638283/in/set-72157644949753562

Second choice i'd make then is what F stop do i want. larger than F4, sigma/tamron 17-50 or samyang 16 f2...
No one else but you know what images are in your mind. I think that is you first step. As mentioned above, i agree you have a hard time deciding because the criteria are very divergent.
Yes, probably you are overthinking this :-)

---------- Post added 11-20-14 at 09:30 PM ----------

And to be honest, looking at your flickr account and the lenses you already seem to possess, i don't see any reason to keep you from a speciality wide angle lens..
11-20-2014, 02:08 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
i think you need to go on flickr and start looking at what those lenses produce. Probably you already have.
I still favor the 16-45 for its versatility
this is at 16mm
https://www.flickr.com/photos/grispie/6455017977/in/set-72157628279457521
this is at 45mm f4
https://www.flickr.com/photos/grispie/9393933381/in/set-72157634852313692

this said, the DA15 opened up a new world for me
https://www.flickr.com/photos/grispie/11134527586/in/set-72157633745598549
https://www.flickr.com/photos/grispie/14402638283/in/set-72157644949753562

Second choice i'd make then is what F stop do i want. larger than F4, sigma/tamron 17-50 or samyang 16 f2...
No one else but you know what images are in your mind. I think that is you first step. As mentioned above, i agree you have a hard time deciding because the criteria are very divergent.
Yes, probably you are overthinking this :-)

---------- Post added 11-20-14 at 09:30 PM ----------

And to be honest, looking at your flickr account and the lenses you already seem to possess, i don't see any reason to keep you from a speciality wide angle lens..
Wow, those 16-45 pictures are great! See why this is difficult? That is prime quality for sure
I also went to your flickr account and saw that you can probably get water from a rock - you got pictures from your 18-55 I don't think I could get out of mine (hint, my lens is probably not the problem )
Thanks for your insight! And your pictures are great, the FA31 ones especially. You have another follower
11-20-2014, 02:46 PM   #28
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I think it's the microcontrast and the flare resistance where DA15 wins over 16-45. I don't know of any other lens which can shoot into the sun as good as the DA15. Still, the 16-45 holds his own as you can see from the images I posted.

You're probably overthinking this, but I know the feeling, I've been through that several times. Don't expect the others to decide for you. I would choose Pentax lens over Sigma lens because of the slightly different colors and rendering, but apart from that... you're on your own.
11-20-2014, 03:07 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by nomadkng Quote
I think the poll is kind of an apples to oranges to bananas comparison, it might be why you are having a tough time deciding.
I think most polls aren't very helpful. All the lenses have their good and bad points. Basing your choice on what works for someone else stands a very good chance of being the wrong choice.
11-20-2014, 03:14 PM   #30
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I had a similar hard time choosing between DA15 and 16-45. In the end I came across a good offer for second hand but unused 16-45, only to get the DA15 later. It was a good start
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