[maxwolfie]

Hi all

I am planning on getting into landscape photography a little more and hopefully making a little bit of money whilst doing so, by selling canvases online. I should note first up that I have been stitching 7-8 images together and cropping - I do not intend on taking a single photo - unless it will somehow result in a better canvas.

I have semi-decided on a Pentax K-50 as a suitable upgrade from my current K-x. The upgrade is mainly because my K-x is getting on, and the AF hunting when there's not enough contrast is starting to bug me. I currently have the standard 18-55mm and 55-300mm kit lenses. My question is mainly around which lens/lenses to purchase along with the body - ideally I'd really like to have a 18-300mm just as a walkaround for holidays/family use, however it would also be nice to have the 18-55 WR lens (for the WR - although it wouldn't be used too often) and possibly even one prime, if it is deemed required for what I want to do (for the IQ).

I should also note that I have an array of older MF lenses, which is why I bought a Pentax in the first place (for the in-body IS), some of which are primes and can produce decent images. For a list, it may be best to just look at this thread that I started here on PentaxForums about 4 years ago.

Budget would probably be around $1200-$1500, using pricing from B & H Photo.

• Would the IQ of the 18-55 WR or even the 18-300 suffice for large canvas prints (1.5m wide) - I.e. is a prime even required? Remember, these canvases will be sold.
• If a prime is required, what focal length do you think would work best? I was obviously shooting with the 18-55mm mostly, but I did find that I wasn't shooting at 18mm all the time..
• OT: Hardly worth a separate thread, would anyone consider that a Full Frame sensor would be a necessity for doing this sort of thing, even when just starting out?

Any other thoughts?

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Last edited by maxwolfie; 12-28-2014 at 11:47 PM.

[hcc]

DA15mm
The DA15mm is a wonderful for landscape, great IQ and superb metal body.

The body is less important IMHO. K-50, K-30, K-500 are excellent entry level. The K-3 is a sold performer and the K-5ii/iis is an excellent bargain.

The selection of the lens is more important. I have two all-around zooms (DA18-250mm and DA18-135mm), but the quality and IQ of a good prime is far superior. In the longer run, you want a combination of zoom and prime lenses. Pentax offers some outstanding primes: the FA Limited, the DA limited and the DA* primes. I suggest that you plan ahead your lens road map. If landscape is your immediate priority, go for the DA15mm.

I hope that the comment will help.

[noelpolar]

DA15mm
The DA15mm is a wonderful for landscape, great IQ and superb metal body.

I wouldn't consider the 15 as a suitable one lens prime for stiching landscapes......probally something around 30-50mm would be more suitable for stiching.......less distortion etc. My one lens recomendation would probally be the HD DA35 or 40. then maybe later the 70.

[DSims]

For stitching, you should get a DA35/2.4. You don't want to go too wide - that will add distortion, and make it more difficult for the software to stitch well (although some software does amazingly well anyway).

No need to spend more right now, but you don't want to use those zooms either.


Eventually you might want a DA50/1.8 or DA70/2.4, but you might also be investing in a motorized unit like a GigaPan by then too.

[Tas]

Hi Max(?),

• Would the IQ of the 18-55 WR or even the 18-300 suffice for large canvas prints (1.5m wide) - I.e. is a prime even required? Remember, these canvases will be sold. This image: https://www.flickr.com/photos/25114742@N07/10083732254/in/set-72157626538730685 was taken using the Zeiss 2/50 ZK, this is an example of why primes are my recommendation. This is a terrible pano, but the detail is awesome and out of the ability of the zooms you mentioned. There's one of these lenses for sale on ebay, but any good Pentax 31-100mm prime will give you resolutions the zooms can't. So, yes, I recommend primes expecially as you want people to pay for your work.
• If a prime is required, what focal length do you think would work best? I was obviously shooting with the 18-55mm mostly, but I did find that I wasn't shooting at 18mm all the time.. You can do panos with anything, but yes a prime is my recommendation and I tend to agree with 'noelpolar' and 'DSims' with the recommended range from 35-70. I find this is an area that provides really good detail, less vignetting, lower CA and distortion than wide angles, and my personal preference is the longer end (ie 70mm) is better. I have used 100mm and even 300mm to stitch with, but really stitching with a 35mm with 7-8 images is going to get you a decent size print. A 50-70mm lens is better, but it will be more frames and less suitable for single layer panos (unless that long skinny look is your plan). If you're patient the 90-100mm range is lots of detail but now you really are going to want a multilayer image and of course, more time during and after your shoot.
• OT: Hardly worth a separate thread, would anyone consider that a Full Frame sensor would be a necessity for doing this sort of thing, even when just starting out? Why not ask about medium format? You can do good panos with a small sensor, the beauty of a pano from a Pentax APSC camera is the smaller size of good primes. And really, the panorama is offsetting the larger sensor so no, you don't need full frame. Maybe you'd be better off looking at a K5II to get better camera control options that the K50?

My dribbling
I guess for me there's three things to look at with panoramas (not including final print size); what lens, what mount, what software?

My recommendation would be to get a multi-layer mount if you don't already have one and look at the DA70, or a 50mm as it's wider FOV will be easier to work with. Yes you can go wider, but I think that 50-70 provides really good detail, with the limitation being if you only intend to do single row panoramas. A single row pano is likely to be better suited at the 35-40mm previously mentioned.

There's a number of panorama mounts on the market from $300-1300, the best range of options I've seen is B&H: Panoramic & Time Lapse Heads | B&H Photo Video. I have a Gigpan Epic Pro, but the manual option pano mounts tend to be cheaper, lighter and easier to carry around whilst still allowing the ability to pan around the nodal point (if you get the right one). A multi-layer pano mount also gives you more to work with (foreground/sky/crooked horizon cropping) and allows the longer lenses to become more viable too. The epic pro has a simple repeat function if focus stacking on multi-layers is your thing. You didn't mention this part, so I thought I'd throw that in. Oh, and a good method for levelling is important, most of these mounts incorporate something, but some don't. A level horizon saves on cropping. Less cropping means more resolution in the same size frame.

And software. Several options, but if you want to do this properly and want the best control look at Auto-pano Giga or Auto-pano Pro: Autopano Giga - Home | Image-stitching software for Windows, Mac, Linux | Kolor or PTGUI: Photo stitching software 360 degree Panorama image software - PTGui There are free options like Hug-in and the Gigapan's come with software, but the recommended options round out the workflow and allow you to fix the stitching errors that other software won't. It's pro software, and you want to make money from this so it's something to consider...IMHO...YMMV

Anyhoo, typically I can't stay on task and end up writing a novel, but if you're intending to make money out of this venture you might be best off with a decent 50mm and spend the rest on a good mount and software. You could try one of your older lenses and compare with the zooms you've been using. You may have the lens already.

Best of luck.

Tas

[mtux]

I am planning on getting into landscape photography a little more and hopefully making a little bit of money whilst doing so, by selling canvases online. I should note first up that I have been stitching 7-8 images together and cropping - I do not intend on taking a single photo - unless it will somehow result in a better canvas.

To stitch several shots and get a big photo (without distortion) you'd better get a lens in the range of 30mm to 100mm, I've done several panos with lenses in that range, yet I've done panos with DA21, which is good for where I wanted, but then the distortion of a super super wide view, might not be what you want, here is an example with DA21: (6vertical shots)



But if you go for a longer lens like 35mm, and a little farther from the view, you can get more straight lines, here is one with DA35 ltd (4vertical shots)



Here is one with DA55-300, at 55mm length! (8 shots in vertical, and no distortion, due to using long lens)



To make it complete, here is one with M100mm macro lens, (this is 38 horizontal shots in several rows)


and to give you where I was, here is a shot from that same place with DA21



So, 28mm to 50mm is easier because you can make it with less photos, but if you go longer, you can make something better but with more work in shooting and stitching.
And I think one thing (about the lens) is really important to make better stitches:
Is that your lens should give you proper sharpness across the frame (at chosen aperture) to make the end result look best! and here is where a prime lens is great! but yet, you can make it with good zoom lenses too.

[noelpolar]

Are you are printing on actual "canvas".......and don't intend to go with hi res prints on other substrates?

I'm only asking this because you may get away with your zoom lens if printing on canvas.....

[Na Horuk]

DA 12-24mm. Or DA 21mm.

---------- Post added 29th Dec 2014 at 13:06 ----------

On the cheap, Samyang, like 14mm f2.8, 16m f2.0, or even 24mm f1.4

[Des]

For stitching panoramas ideally you want a lens with edge-to-edge sharpness. Maybe a DA 35mm f2.8 Ltd Macro?

With single wide shots the DA 12-24 is very good, even though the edge-to-edge sharpness is quite not at prime level. The versatility is very handy.

[baro-nite]

Distortion and sharpness across the field are important, of course, but don't forget about vignetting. If you aren't using much overlap between shots, this can be very noticeable in a stitch in uniform areas such as blue sky. Of course at landscape apertures this isn't usually much of a problem, but as a rule shorter focal lengths will have more vignetting.

[drypenn]

Distortion and sharpness across the field are important, of course, but don't forget about vignetting. If you aren't using much overlap between shots, this can be very noticeable in a stitch in uniform areas such as blue sky. Of course at landscape apertures this isn't usually much of a problem, but as a rule shorter focal lengths will have more vignetting.

Outstanding point!

[interested_observer]

Morning,

I too shoot stitched landscapes, usually in low light conditions. Landscapes, cityscapes, architecture - what ever. Nothing professional - I have been too busy at my day job.

Tas has some wonderful suggestions/recommendations.

• Budget would probably be around $1200-$1500, using pricing from B & H Photo. - I do think that this budget is adequate to start out with, however I would look to used lenses to stretch it a bit farther.

• Would the IQ of the 18-55 WR or even the 18-300 suffice for large canvas prints (1.5m wide) - I.e. is a prime even required? Remember, these canvases will be sold. - As a rule of thumb, for zooms - a zoom ration of 4x (lower FL to the upper FL) is good to stay within (2x for wide angle lenses). The reason for this is beyond this ratio, the optical design becomes very complex and the more compromises creep in. That is why prime lenses are used for best results, since there is just a single focal length to design to. You can get wonderful images from these lenses. There is nothing wrong with the lenses. Having said that, you will get better results with some different lenses. On a budget the first lens I would get is the DA 35 f2.4. I saw it on sale new for $111 here during the holidays. There is a reason behind this suggestion. A past member here RioRico observed that commercial landscape photographers use FLs between the mid 20s to the mid 30s because they come with out distortion. I think that will be your base lens. The next lens I would suggest is the DA 50 f1.8 (B&H has it new for $129). These two lenses are extremely good and relatively cheap. For stitching, since you are adding pixels rather than try to shoehorn view on to the sensor, you should be able to work with these to start with. My next two suggestions are budget busters to a degree. You will want to book end these two primes with lenses that are a "bucket of primes". The DA 12-24/f4 and the DA 60-250/f4. You should be able to find wonderful used copies at ~$600 USD for the 12-24 and ~$1K for the 60-250. I would suggest this set as a secondary acquisition set - with the above primes as the first set. These two lenses are zooms and would be viewed as a bit slow, but slow is good in landscapes. You really do not need fast glass - you need glass with excellent IQ (Image Quality), rendering, contrast and color. The 12-24 is suggested because you are going to want to be able to grab wide views (in portrait orientation) when the light is rapidly changing (golden hour or blue hour) and taking multi-row stitches would be difficult. The DA15 and DA 21 are wonderful - this has 99% of the IQ but a much wider set of focal lengths. For the width, the 12-24 is controlled very well with distortion, however it will have some CA when shooting into the sun (which can be corrected with LightRoom in post processing). The 60-250 equals or exceeds many primes in its focal length range. So rather than buy a 70, 100, 135, 200 and 300 - picking up this one lens covers it all. There is another common thread through out all of these suggestions - AF. You are going to need to nail focus the first time, all the time and every time. AF will do this better than manual focus. It will vary from person to person. For wider angle lenses I can still do MF - however for longer glass, my MF days are over.

• If a prime is required, what focal length do you think would work best? I was obviously shooting with the 18-55mm mostly, but I did find that I wasn't shooting at 18mm all the time. - As I just wrote above the DA 35 and 50, given your stitching would I think be a wonderful set that should pretty much cover just about all occasions. Yes, longer and shorter would help, but these would certainly get you started and put you in an excellent position. Plus, there will be other expenses that you will need.

• OT: Hardly worth a separate thread, would anyone consider that a Full Frame sensor would be a necessity for doing this sort of thing, even when just starting out? - Your competition are the full frame and medium format cameras. Stitching is the great equalizer. You can equal them, but it will take longer and with more shots.

Other items to consider....

• A tripod - This is pretty much an absolute must. Something substantial and rock solid. You can buy used here - I found a really great one, a Manfrotto 3001 for $100, in excellent condition that I keep in the back seat of my truck.

• External Shutter Release - Once you are setup, you don't want to introduce any vibration. For ~$10 this is an easy acquisition.

• A head - Rather than re-post a whole set of stuff - here is an excellent thread on the topic of tripods and heads. Basically for you stitching, panning level will be essential. A ballhead that lets you pan level will be essential for single row panoramas. By panning level, you will crop less - thus retain more pixels.

• A Pano Head - You can sort of get away with a ballhead for single row panos. For multi-row panos you can do it also, but this will save time and with a rotator base line things up better and make it faster. A motorized unit is the ultimate if you are doing hundreds of shots with long glass for fine detail. Something like a Nodal Ninja 3 is cost effective.

• K5IIs - This has the Anti-Ailiasing filter removed (as with the 645D and Z), so you are able to get about 10% better resolution. It also has 14 bit color which will help with shadows when printing large. It is being discontinued and at $480 is a bargain. Having said that, your K50 is no slouch.

• Software - There is software out there that you are going to need. For stitching I find Microsoft ICE to do an excellent job - and free is good. There are time however, where it just is not sufficient. With stitched panos, especially with architecture, you can get some "strange" straight lines that need to be pulled vertical. That is where the higher end software comes into play. That and at times you are going to want to do linear panoramas - that is another area that ICE does not do well.

Order of acquisition -

1. DA 35 and the DA 50 - These are the bread and butter. They will get you started with excellent IQ, sufficient resolution, color and contrast.
2. Tripod, head and external shutter release - To keep everything steady during low light conditions (golden and blue hour). Good for single row and stretching to multi-row panos.
3. Pano Head - for multi-row panos
4. DA 12-24 and DA 60-250 - for wider and longer shots
5. Body upgrade - Since this is the last on the list, by the time you get here, the K3 or later will be going end of life. You will want to stay behind the body curve, essentially picking up the absolute best as you find you need a body upgrade, but need the greatest bang for the buck.

[Na Horuk]

Oh, but if you want walkaround WR get the DA 18-135mm. WR, long range.

[NS_Sailor]

I created these Panoramics with the Stitch application embedded in Windows Live Photo Gallery from shots taken with my K100D with a old 28-80 Film Lens I once owned a couple of years ago in Milwaukee
The first image was created 5 shots with the camera level and the other 2 were created with 4 shots taken with the camera sideways.
I took the 4th panoramic of the Detroit River this summer again with my K100 and a Tamron XR DiII 18-200mm F3.5-6.3mm lens

[northcoastgreg]

Would the IQ of the 18-55 WR or even the 18-300 suffice for large canvas prints (1.5m wide) - I.e. is a prime even required? Remember, these canvases will be sold.

It would suffice in the sense that you could probably sell at least a few images taken with those lenses. I once sold a 60" print made from 5 images stitched together and shot with the DA 18-55. However, I think you'd have a better chance of selling if you used better glass. Keep in mind: it's not just about resolution. Obviously, in large prints (canvas or otherwise), resolution is very important. But so is contrast and color; and the contrast and color you get out of a high end lens tends to be better than what you can achieve in post. Cranking up contrast in post can damage the quality of the tonal gradations of your image, which can lower the impact of your prints.

The DA Limiteds are the ultimate in color and contrast lenses, so I would start out with the DA 40 Limited. Later on you could acquire lenses like the DA 12-24, the DA 16-85, and/or the DA* 60-250 for those times when stitching proves impractical. You could also add the DA 70 for more precise stitching, or stitching at narrower FOVs.

---------- Post added 12-29-14 at 09:24 AM ----------

OT: Hardly worth a separate thread, would anyone consider that a Full Frame sensor would be a necessity for doing this sort of thing, even when just starting out?

FF is nice provided you match it with high end lenses. Many landscape photographers with deep pockets are shooting FF these days, but they're also using top-of-the-line glass: nano coated high-end Nikon and Canon L glass, or Zeiss primes. Those lenses not only deliver superb resolution, but they're super contrasty as well, with rich, vivid color.