FF used lenses to start with

osv · 02-07-2015, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by northcoastgreg

Because the fact is, a photographer shooting a K-50 with the DA 17-70 will (assuming comparable talent) tend to get better looking images than the photographer shooting the FF camera with the F 35-70 for far less money.

given that there is no such thing as a pentax ff digital camera, how much experience does anyone have, shooting the f 35-70 on ff digital? i see no basis of comparison for that claim, it's nothing more than idle speculation.

when p.q. is the priority, zoom lenses are almost always weaker than even a good legacy prime.

Driline · 02-07-2015, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by osv

given that there is no such thing as a pentax ff digital camera, how much experience does anyone have, shooting the f 35-70 on ff digital? i see no basis of comparison for that claim, it's nothing more than idle speculation.

when p.q. is the priority, zoom lenses are almost always weaker than even a good legacy prime.

Ummmmm the F35-70 is a zoom lens. For what it's worth, Digital Rev Kai Wong presented a you tube video that showed what the difference between a cheap lens on a pro FF body and pro lens on a cheap body was. The Pro lens won hands down. If you want great image quality, buy a good lens first.

**wtlwdwgn** · 02-07-2015, 04:40 PM

There's a difference between cheap and cheaply made. The legacy Pentax lenses are very well made, render color well, and are very sharp. Whether they'll be as good on a FF 36mp sensor remains to be seen. The OP just wants a couple of lenses to try out now while dreaming of the FF Pentax.

**Des** · 02-07-2015, 05:28 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by arkav

Personally, if I were going with an older prime, I'd try to get something in an A series ( if IQ of different versions are more or less equal ). I don't mind manual focus, but I'm less enthusiastic about the green button metering

I'm so pleased to hear someone say this out loud. To admit that the inconvenience of a manual aperture lens is sufficient reason to pass them by has seemed to me profoundly uncool. It suggests the sins of disloyalty (a denial of the great Pentax heritage), profligacy (willing to pay more for ease of use) and dilettantism (I'm not prepared to take the trouble of setting lens aperture manually, so I'm not serious about photography). It's like saying you are not interested in a driving an MG because you don't like manual transmission.

I'm not looking to start a fight. Good luck to all those of you who use them. I love seeing your photos. I admire the skills. Be glad that I and my ilk won't be bidding up the prices of the old Takumars, Ks, Ms, etc.

**monochrome** · 02-07-2015, 05:45 PM

If manual focus isn't an issue and GB metering is an issue, and if starting with a very nice practice lens is desired before spending significant money, I suggest the A35~105/3.5, a parfocal medium zoom whose IQ still punches WELL above it's cost - around $125 US in Mint- condition.

Add a nice copy of the F70~210 - always a sharp, sharp sleeper - for around $~~175~~ US. Way lower, apparently.

arkav · 02-07-2015, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by Des

I'm so pleased to hear someone say this out loud. To admit that the inconvenience of a manual aperture lens is sufficient reason to pass them by has seemed to me profoundly uncool. It suggests the sins of disloyalty (a denial of the great Pentax heritage), profligacy (willing to pay more for ease of use) and dilettantism (I'm not prepared to take the trouble of setting lens aperture manually, so I'm not serious about photography).

It's not so much the inconvenience for me, it's more a question of accuracy. For a long time, I shot with nothing but M series lenses in manual mode on film bodies, and I enjoyed it. After going digital, I did a LOT of shooting with an M series 100mm macro on my K200D. Green button exposure was unreliable. Metering via DOF preview and manually setting exposure worked, but it was a fiddly - and I couldn't see the aperture setting in the viewfinder as I could with my MX. Now I've got a K30, and it doesn't support metering during DOF preview, so green button exposure is my only option with older lenses. Thankfully, I've replaced the old macro with a 100WR, but my other M series lenses see very little action these days. Maybe if they had more useful fields of view on APS-C I'd be more inclined to mess with them.

I don't mind shooting in manual exposure mode with a modern lens, but I tend to use TAv mode more often now that I've discovered it.

If Pentax would deign to decripple the K-mount, I probably wouldn't mind using older lenses. But what I do find I have trouble with is swapping around between lenses that have different capabilities. I like to get into a groove, and I get tripped up when I swap to a lens that requires me to work in a different way. I get clumsy for a while until I get back into the groove again. It's likely that this is partly because I tend to be more hurried than I used to be. I need to find a way to slow things down again.

But that's just me. I don't question the merits of someone else's approach. I was just throwing in a couple of suggestions for things the OP might want to keep in mind when considering older lenses.

osv · 02-07-2015, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by Driline

Ummmmm the F35-70 is a zoom lens.

afaik, no one ever said otherwise?

Originally posted by Driline

For what it's worth, Digital Rev Kai Wong presented a you tube video that showed what the difference between a cheap lens on a pro FF body and pro lens on a cheap body was.

got a link? because i need a good laugh

i thought that i just proved how wrong that cheap glass theory is with the 200mm minolta prime photo.

how about with a wide lens? i paid $37 for this viv 24/2.8, in a package with some other stuff... on 36mp ff, at landscape apertures, legacy primes don't get much cleaner on the sides than that:
24mm SLR prime lens test

i bet that it can be found in k-mount or m42.

if i was buying new, rokinon/samyang/bower/etc 35/1.4, $299 at b&h, in k-mount:
Bower 35mm f/1.4 Lens for Pentax SLY3514P B&H Photo Video

but you better know how to test a lens

also this, some of it is in k-mount...
LensRentals.com - The Best Lens Bargains

**wtlwdwgn** · 02-08-2015, 07:38 AM

Here you go.

Pro DSLR + Cheapo Lens Vs Cheapo DSLR + Pro Lens

osv · 02-08-2015, 12:16 PM

fixed link:

You Tube

those guys never fail to entertain! lol... deliberately dropping the flash, fanning the shutter with no glass on

etc, was

however... does comparing 28-300mm vs. 24-70mm focal lengths really make any sense? long zooms are worst-case scenarios, why not compare similar focal length zooms?

crop sensor camera on ff "L" glass, vs. ff sensor on ff cheap glass... why not compare like for like sensor sizes?

why show out of focus photos, that don't demonstrate what the cheap glass is actually capable of doing?

because he's got an agenda.

here are some examples of what that junk sigma can do: Sigma 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 DG Macro Interchangeable Lens Review

one of those photos shows an obvious problem with the lens... which pic is it, and what is wrong?

6BQ5 · 02-08-2015, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by Driline

Gee, I can't wait to buy a full frame pentax camera for $2,500 and put a $25 FF piece of legacy glass on it and expect great images from it

That $25 FF lens will probably become a $100-$150 as demand will suddenly surge on a limited supply of glass.

The days of "cheap" legacy glass are over, my friends. Get what you can now if you haven't already. We're entering a new era.

Driline · 02-08-2015, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

Add a nice copy of the F70~210 - always a sharp, sharp sleeper - for around $175 US

$175? No way. $40 for one in excellent condition on ebay. Matter of fact several has sold well under $75. I know cause I got one

**monochrome** · 02-08-2015, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by Driline

$175? No way. $40 for one in excellent condition on ebay. Matter of fact several has sold well under $75. I know cause I got one

Wow!! I stand corrected then. I haven't kept up with legacy lens prices on eBay for quite some time. That's so good a price I might need to re-acquire one.

Driline · 02-08-2015, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

Wow!! I stand corrected then. I haven't kept up with legacy lens prices on eBay for quite some time. That's so good a price I might need to re-acquire one.

There's quite a few at $125, but they'll never sell at that price. There's also several around the $75 price and they "might" sell. The last two sold were one I purchased for $40 and another one for $53. You can find the Tokina equivalent for between $12 and $25. I also purchased one of those for my son.

**monochrome** · 02-08-2015, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by Driline

There's quite a few at $125, but they'll never sell at that price. There's also several around the $75 price and they "might" sell. The last two sold were one I purchased for $40 and another one for $53. You can find the Tokina equivalent for between $12 and $25. I also purchased one of those for my son.

I sold my 35~70 and 70~210 pair for $175, but I marketed it as the long zoom with its 'free' partner. I couldn't sell them with the included SF1n, a LowePro Nova50 and the original manuals at that price. Funny how that goes.

Driline · 02-08-2015, 09:56 PM

I guess I shouldn't say "won't sell" but that "I" wouldn't buy it at that price. And apparently others arn't willing either.

02-07-2015, 05:45 PM	#35
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	If manual focus isn't an issue and GB metering is an issue, and if starting with a very nice practice lens is desired before spending significant money, I suggest the A35~105/3.5, a parfocal medium zoom whose IQ still punches WELL above it's cost - around $125 US in Mint- condition. Add a nice copy of the F70~210 - always a sharp, sharp sleeper - for around $~~175~~ US. Way lower, apparently. Last edited by monochrome; 02-09-2015 at 03:46 AM.

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02-07-2015, 01:06 PM	#31
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by northcoastgreg Because the fact is, a photographer shooting a K-50 with the DA 17-70 will (assuming comparable talent) tend to get better looking images than the photographer shooting the FF camera with the F 35-70 for far less money. given that there is no such thing as a pentax ff digital camera, how much experience does anyone have, shooting the f 35-70 on ff digital? i see no basis of comparison for that claim, it's nothing more than idle speculation. when p.q. is the priority, zoom lenses are almost always weaker than even a good legacy prime.

02-07-2015, 03:05 PM	#32
Driline Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: IOWA Where the Tall Corn Grows Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,695	Originally posted by osv given that there is no such thing as a pentax ff digital camera, how much experience does anyone have, shooting the f 35-70 on ff digital? i see no basis of comparison for that claim, it's nothing more than idle speculation. when p.q. is the priority, zoom lenses are almost always weaker than even a good legacy prime. Ummmmm the F35-70 is a zoom lens. For what it's worth, Digital Rev Kai Wong presented a you tube video that showed what the difference between a cheap lens on a pro FF body and pro lens on a cheap body was. The Pro lens won hands down. If you want great image quality, buy a good lens first.

02-07-2015, 04:40 PM	#33
wtlwdwgn Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Billings, MT Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,838	There's a difference between cheap and cheaply made. The legacy Pentax lenses are very well made, render color well, and are very sharp. Whether they'll be as good on a FF 36mp sensor remains to be seen. The OP just wants a couple of lenses to try out now while dreaming of the FF Pentax.

02-07-2015, 05:28 PM - 1 Like	#34
Des Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Victoria Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 6,422	Originally posted by arkav Personally, if I were going with an older prime, I'd try to get something in an A series ( if IQ of different versions are more or less equal ). I don't mind manual focus, but I'm less enthusiastic about the green button metering I'm so pleased to hear someone say this out loud. To admit that the inconvenience of a manual aperture lens is sufficient reason to pass them by has seemed to me profoundly uncool. It suggests the sins of disloyalty (a denial of the great Pentax heritage), profligacy (willing to pay more for ease of use) and dilettantism (I'm not prepared to take the trouble of setting lens aperture manually, so I'm not serious about photography). It's like saying you are not interested in a driving an MG because you don't like manual transmission. I'm not looking to start a fight. Good luck to all those of you who use them. I love seeing your photos. I admire the skills. Be glad that I and my ilk won't be bidding up the prices of the old Takumars, Ks, Ms, etc.

02-07-2015, 08:03 PM	#36
arkav Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 366	Originally posted by Des I'm so pleased to hear someone say this out loud. To admit that the inconvenience of a manual aperture lens is sufficient reason to pass them by has seemed to me profoundly uncool. It suggests the sins of disloyalty (a denial of the great Pentax heritage), profligacy (willing to pay more for ease of use) and dilettantism (I'm not prepared to take the trouble of setting lens aperture manually, so I'm not serious about photography). It's not so much the inconvenience for me, it's more a question of accuracy. For a long time, I shot with nothing but M series lenses in manual mode on film bodies, and I enjoyed it. After going digital, I did a LOT of shooting with an M series 100mm macro on my K200D. Green button exposure was unreliable. Metering via DOF preview and manually setting exposure worked, but it was a fiddly - and I couldn't see the aperture setting in the viewfinder as I could with my MX. Now I've got a K30, and it doesn't support metering during DOF preview, so green button exposure is my only option with older lenses. Thankfully, I've replaced the old macro with a 100WR, but my other M series lenses see very little action these days. Maybe if they had more useful fields of view on APS-C I'd be more inclined to mess with them. I don't mind shooting in manual exposure mode with a modern lens, but I tend to use TAv mode more often now that I've discovered it. If Pentax would deign to decripple the K-mount, I probably wouldn't mind using older lenses. But what I do find I have trouble with is swapping around between lenses that have different capabilities. I like to get into a groove, and I get tripped up when I swap to a lens that requires me to work in a different way. I get clumsy for a while until I get back into the groove again. It's likely that this is partly because I tend to be more hurried than I used to be. I need to find a way to slow things down again. But that's just me. I don't question the merits of someone else's approach. I was just throwing in a couple of suggestions for things the OP might want to keep in mind when considering older lenses.

02-07-2015, 11:14 PM	#37
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by Driline Ummmmm the F35-70 is a zoom lens. afaik, no one ever said otherwise? Originally posted by Driline For what it's worth, Digital Rev Kai Wong presented a you tube video that showed what the difference between a cheap lens on a pro FF body and pro lens on a cheap body was. got a link? because i need a good laugh i thought that i just proved how wrong that cheap glass theory is with the 200mm minolta prime photo. how about with a wide lens? i paid $37 for this viv 24/2.8, in a package with some other stuff... on 36mp ff, at landscape apertures, legacy primes don't get much cleaner on the sides than that: 24mm SLR prime lens test i bet that it can be found in k-mount or m42. if i was buying new, rokinon/samyang/bower/etc 35/1.4, $299 at b&h, in k-mount: Bower 35mm f/1.4 Lens for Pentax SLY3514P B&H Photo Video but you better know how to test a lens also this, some of it is in k-mount... LensRentals.com - The Best Lens Bargains

02-08-2015, 07:38 AM	#38
wtlwdwgn Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Billings, MT Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,838	Here you go. Pro DSLR + Cheapo Lens Vs Cheapo DSLR + Pro Lens

02-08-2015, 05:03 PM	#40
6BQ5 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Nevada, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,348	Originally posted by Driline Gee, I can't wait to buy a full frame pentax camera for $2,500 and put a $25 FF piece of legacy glass on it and expect great images from it That $25 FF lens will probably become a $100-$150 as demand will suddenly surge on a limited supply of glass. The days of "cheap" legacy glass are over, my friends. Get what you can now if you haven't already. We're entering a new era.

02-08-2015, 05:08 PM	#41
Driline Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: IOWA Where the Tall Corn Grows Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,695	Originally posted by monochrome Add a nice copy of the F70~210 - always a sharp, sharp sleeper - for around $175 US $175? No way. $40 for one in excellent condition on ebay. Matter of fact several has sold well under $75. I know cause I got one

02-08-2015, 07:05 PM	#42
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Driline $175? No way. $40 for one in excellent condition on ebay. Matter of fact several has sold well under $75. I know cause I got one Wow!! I stand corrected then. I haven't kept up with legacy lens prices on eBay for quite some time. That's so good a price I might need to re-acquire one.

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02-08-2015, 08:10 PM	#43
Driline Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: IOWA Where the Tall Corn Grows Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,695	Originally posted by monochrome Wow!! I stand corrected then. I haven't kept up with legacy lens prices on eBay for quite some time. That's so good a price I might need to re-acquire one. There's quite a few at $125, but they'll never sell at that price. There's also several around the $75 price and they "might" sell. The last two sold were one I purchased for $40 and another one for $53. You can find the Tokina equivalent for between $12 and $25. I also purchased one of those for my son.

02-08-2015, 08:21 PM	#44
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Driline There's quite a few at $125, but they'll never sell at that price. There's also several around the $75 price and they "might" sell. The last two sold were one I purchased for $40 and another one for $53. You can find the Tokina equivalent for between $12 and $25. I also purchased one of those for my son. I sold my 35~70 and 70~210 pair for $175, but I marketed it as the long zoom with its 'free' partner. I couldn't sell them with the included SF1n, a LowePro Nova50 and the original manuals at that price. Funny how that goes.

02-08-2015, 09:56 PM	#45
Driline Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: IOWA Where the Tall Corn Grows Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,695	I guess I shouldn't say "won't sell" but that "I" wouldn't buy it at that price. And apparently others arn't willing either.