[UncleVanya]

Lmao.. Another chicken little. Both the top two still mfg both APS cameras and lenses even though their flagships are FF. So do you honestly think just because Ricoh/Pentax is venturing into FF their going to abandon their much more purchased APS or MF and turn it over to other companies like Olympus did, I think not. If anything by producing FF to go along with Aps-c and MF it gives them a more solid line up.

Re-read my post I didn't suggest anything like you are saying. I'm suggesting that Pentax may not provide their most cutting edge features in the next generation of apsc bodies as they do for the new ff one - much like today's k3 features are ahead of the k50. Today the k3 is the top of the line and gets all bells and whistles, each replacement for the top end camera did as well in the past. But with ff launch there will be some pressure on the marketing side to have some features that set ff apart - perhaps this will only be the sensor. However if you look at Nikon that's not the case, there are features that make it into the line first in ff and later trickle down to apsc.

[hjoseph7]

Isn't the new Pentax FF going to have some type of "crop-mode" so that you can use the DA lenses on it ?

[UncleVanya]

Isn't the new Pentax FF going to have some type of "crop-mode" so that you can use the DA lenses on it ?

I believe so based on what I read here:
Pentax Full Frame DSLR Officially Announced - Pentax Announcements | PentaxForums.com

Cropping is mentioned.

[normhead]

I guess it hasn't been pointed out, with APS-c you can use the best of both crop and FF glass using the full capability of the sensor. With FF to use crop lenses you have to reduce the size of the sensor.

However if you look at Nikon that's not the case, there are features that make it into the line first in ff and later trickle down to apsc.

Where as if you look at Pentax, the 645z uses an awful lot of K-3 technology. I tend to think looking at Pentax is more relevant than looking at Nikon. In Pentax land, technology from APS-c is the core of larger format systems. That's not going to change, unless Pentax gets to be the size of Canon or Nikon with equivalent FF sales.

[UncleVanya]

I guess it hasn't been pointed out, with APS-c you can use the best of both crop and FF glass using the full capability of the sensor. With FF to use crop lenses you have to reduce the size of the sensor.



Where as if you look at Pentax, the 645z uses an awful lot of K-3 technology. I tend to think looking at Pentax is more relevant than looking at Nikon. In Pentax land, technology from APS-c is the core of larger format systems. That's not going to change, unless Pentax gets to be the size of Canon or Nikon with equivalent FF sales.

Very good points, thanks for addressing my actual concerns as valid rather than treating me like a cartoon I typically appreciate the well thought out and insightful posts you make. This is no exception.

[Nicolas06]

Just FYI ... see the thread, because PF'ers have shot these lenses on FF film SLRs ... the film images are quite good.

So I do not see why they would not work with the image circle of the FF DSRL (in FF mode).

Edit : XS 40 sample ... and the DA 40 said to work only after being stopped down a bit ... (not my image, it's towa)



Also see => vjacesslav: SMC PENTAX DA* 55mm 1.4 SDM WR vs FULL FRAME

You really think your camera will go APSC mode wide open... and FF mode after? And so how do you see it on the OVF? And who decide that this lense is good enough for FF mode and this one has too much vigneting, not enough sharpness or whatver?

In the best case the camera will remember your setting per lense. It will be your dutie to remember the max real apperture to choose... and if there no special fearture to make the information really visible through the OVF to remember in what case you are.

That's an ergonomic and engineering nightmare.

Thus it is far from being sure that DA lense XYZ that happen to work more or less on FF will be recognized as an FF lense. It might depend of the lense, the ricoh strategy etc.

All in all, if one want an FF lense, he should buy an FF lense. Not a lense said to be for APSC but that could do it more or less.

[MadMathMind]

I see everyone's point that the FF DLSR is not yet released, but not to let a "FF capable" DA lens work in its "FF mode" would be just plain stupid. Period.

I am sure that the engineers at Pentax are quite aware that certain DA lenses will perform on "FF formats" without any problems. It's no big secret.

Well, I think it's more of consumer issue. What they don't want is this: consumer buys fancy $3k camera and lenses without paying attention to compatibility or what anything is. Consumer puts DA lens on FF camera and discovers all his pictures look like they were taken through a porthole. Consumer thinks camera and lenses are defective, returns them and buys something else in another brand.

One would hope that someone buying a (presumably) $2500+ camera would be more informed that this, but you'd be amazed how many people with big money buy something without understanding any of it (thinking they will) because they assumed more expensive == better.

Not sure what Nikon's crop mode does in terms of autodetect, but Canon has made their APS-C lenses unmountable on their full frame cameras (because they refused to have a crop mode).

What Pentax does with their system will probably depend on how much they trust their customers. The idea of having it default to crop mode for DA lenses and allowing the user to disable it would be ideal. Then it covers the clueless as well as the knowledgeable.

[aurele]

Not sure what Nikon's crop mode does in terms of autodetect, but Canon has made their APS-C lenses unmountable on their full frame cameras (because they refused to have a crop mode).

You can select it by the menu (available modes are 1x (i.e.: no crop) 1.2x and 1.5x.

[Jean Poitiers]

You really think your camera will go APSC mode wide open... and FF mode after? And so how do you see it on the OVF? And who decide that this lense is good enough for FF mode and this one has too much vigneting, not enough sharpness or whatver?

In the best case the camera will remember your setting per lense. It will be your dutie to remember the max real apperture to choose... and if there no special fearture to make the information really visible through the OVF to remember in what case you are.

That's an ergonomic and engineering nightmare.

Thus it is far from being sure that DA lense XYZ that happen to work more or less on FF will be recognized as an FF lense. It might depend of the lense, the ricoh strategy etc.

All in all, if one want an FF lense, he should buy an FF lense. Not a lense said to be for APSC but that could do it more or less.

Whatever ... again there's an entire thread showing certain DA lenses (singular = lens) working on FF film formats.

IMHO the DA 35/2.4 and DA 50/1.8 were designed as "kit lens primes" for the then future FF DSRL, but the only problem was the long, slow and/or late development of said FF DSLR.

They had to label them as "DA" lenses and say that they are APS-C "engineered" ... otherwise to say that they were FF lenses would make a laughingstock out of Pentax if released as such. I mean why put out two FF prime lenses like the aforementioned when you don't have a FF DSLR body at that time ... get it?!

Anyway ... I really do not understand your post in general ... so let's just agree to disagree and let leave it there. D'accord.

---------- Post added 02-08-15 at 19:08 ----------

You can select it by the menu (available modes are 1x (i.e.: no crop) 1.2x and 1.5x.

Gee ... I guess that it's not an "engineering nightmare" then after all ... sounds do-able to me, especially if Nikon has already done it.

[mwilky55]

I'm trying to tame my lens addiction and refrain from buying any more glass ...and the eventual arrival of a full frame camera gives me pause.

Having said that, even though I may someday get the full frame camera, I don't see abandoning my K5 or K3 anytime soon and I may still like to get a couple select lenses, like the DA*55 or a mid-range, weather resistant zoom (18-135 or *50-135).

The prospect of being able to use DA glass in crop mode on the FF makes any new purchases a little more future safe.

[hjoseph7]

I guess it hasn't been pointed out, with APS-c you can use the best of both crop and FF glass using the full capability of the sensor. With FF to use crop lenses you have to reduce the size of the sensor.



Where as if you look at Pentax, the 645z uses an awful lot of K-3 technology. I tend to think looking at Pentax is more relevant than looking at Nikon. In Pentax land, technology from APS-c is the core of larger format systems. That's not going to change, unless Pentax gets to be the size of Canon or Nikon with equivalent FF sales.

Not sure how they are going to reduce the size of the sensor ? Are they going to move the sensor closer to the lens, or are they going to physically shrink the size of the sensor with some type of frame ?

[UncleVanya]

Not sure how they are going to reduce the size of the sensor ? Are they going to move the sensor closer to the lens, or are they going to physically shrink the size of the sensor with some type of frame ?

Registration distance is the same - sensor is not farther or closer than normal. The way Nikon does this is to simply just use the part of the sensor inside a certain area for each crop - the rest of the data is tossed away into the bit bucket. This means that the FF sensor captures a larger number of MP than the crop versions.

I really like the idea of 1.1x, 1.2x, etc partial crop sizes - this allows lenses that are just shy of FF due to modest vignetting to be used at larger than APSC but without vignetting when desired. I hope Pentax does something like this.

[hjoseph7]

Registration distance is the same - sensor is not farther or closer than normal. The way Nikon does this is to simply just use the part of the sensor inside a certain area for each crop - the rest of the data is tossed away into the bit bucket. This means that the FF sensor captures a larger number of MP than the crop versions.

I really like the idea of 1.1x, 1.2x, etc partial crop sizes - this allows lenses that are just shy of FF due to modest vignetting to be used at larger than APSC but without vignetting when desired. I hope Pentax does something like this.

My point and shoot which is 5 years old does have a bunch of aspect ratios 4:3, 3:2 , 3:4, 6:9, so I'm guessing it is software related. I never new they installed this feature on DSLR's until now.

[Dlanor Sekao]

NOPE ! I only bought 1 APS-C lens ever and have anticipated FF for a long time. Buy nothing but FF compatible lenses. Im soooo Happy...Happy....Happy ! MUSIC TO MY EARS .........FF.....is just around the corner !
Already have every lens I need for FF.....and grabbing up more !

[pero]

Yes of course, since I will still be shooting a crop camera.