Tamron 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 too slow, any ideas?

NicholasN · 06-01-2008, 10:00 PM

I love aviation photography however since purchasing the k20D with the Tamron 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 I have found the lens too slow at anything over 150mm for action shots resulting in blurred images.

Anybody here use a K20D for action photography who could recommend a faster lens that won't ruin my savings account balance?

I miss my love of planes and desperately want to get back into it.

Regards

Nick

PentaxPoke · 06-01-2008, 10:30 PM

Hi Nick,

I am nuts about planes as well. What shutter speed and ISO are you usually shooting? I often use my 18-250 for plane shots, and when zoomed at the 250 setting, I will often use the 1/500 or 1/750 shutter speed when tracking flying planes. I haven't had a problem yet with the lens not being fast enough, but usually it is full daylight. Is your problem shooting at dusk maybe?

NicholasN · 06-02-2008, 12:51 AM

I have a long history of aviation based photography. I was shooting at 1/750 at ISO 100 in perfect daylight. I went back to the camera store I purchased the stuff from and he said that the f/6.3 aperture is way too slow for what I want. I got away with a Sigma DG Macro f4-5.6 with the K100D however with the K20D pushing 15 mega-pixels f/6.3 is just not quick enough.

What camera body are you using PentaxPoke? and which 18-250 lens? The Pentax DA?

Regards

Nick

Dale · 06-02-2008, 04:07 AM

Originally posted by NicholasN

I have a long history of aviation based photography. I was shooting at 1/750 at ISO 100 in perfect daylight. I went back to the camera store I purchased the stuff from and he said that the f/6.3 aperture is way too slow for what I want. I got away with a Sigma DG Macro f4-5.6 with the K100D however with the K20D pushing 15 mega-pixels f/6.3 is just not quick enough.

What camera body are you using PentaxPoke? and which 18-250 lens? The Pentax DA?

Regards

Nick

I've been shooting a mates Jabiru. I had the luxury of him doing several passes while I sorted out my technique.

Using the Tamron AF70-300mm F4-5.6. Cheap lens somewhat sharpish at 300mm.

I quickly found out that at shutter speeds of around 1/500, I couldn't pan smooth enough to get a sharp image.

All shots were taken with the aircraft at 100 Kn IAS and down sun of me. I changed ISO to 200, and then shot as fast as I was able. I held the AF button down, and tracked the aircraft in as smooth a pan as possible. I suspect that the more panning practice I get, the better the shots will be.

Advantge of fast shutter speed is a sharp image, but no propeller blurry disc. I'm hoping to improve my panning skills and then drop the shutter speed and get the blurred prop disc.

First result with little PP:

Details:

Camera K10d

1/1500 at f5.6

300mm.

ISO 200

Last edited by Dale; 06-02-2008 at 04:11 AM. Reason: added stuff

NicholasN · 06-02-2008, 03:24 PM

That Tamron your using is alot faster than mine. Yours is 5.6 @ 300mm and mine is 6.3 @ 300mm. I think I am going to have to find a faster lens. 6.3 is just not enough for a 15MP camera.

lbam · 06-02-2008, 03:43 PM

With the K20D you've got the ability to crop a fair amount without losing a good picture... so you could go to something wider (and faster obviously), than 300mm perhaps?

Just a thought.

PentaxPoke · 06-02-2008, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by NicholasN

That Tamron your using is alot faster than mine. Yours is 5.6 @ 300mm and mine is 6.3 @ 300mm. I think I am going to have to find a faster lens. 6.3 is just not enough for a 15MP camera.

Nick,

I'm still not getting it. If you were shooting at ISO 100 and you are limited because of f6.3, why not just bump up to ISO200? Heck, on the k20d you could go to ISO 400 and not notice the difference. f5.6 is only a 1/3 stop from f 6.3! Just going from iso 100 to iso200 will give you double the light (1 full stop), and more than make up for the loss of 1/3 stop. I'm also not sure what the difference of a 1/3 stop has to do with a 15MP camera.

Am I missing something? I think that camera store is just trying to sell you a new lens!

To answer your question, I was using the k20d and k10d as well as the 18-250 in my signature below.

NicholasN · 06-02-2008, 04:19 PM

I was considering either the:

*Pentax DA 50-200mm f/4-5.6
*Pentax 55-300mm f4-5.8

The 200mm is slightly quicker however the 300mm is good at f5.8 for the price.

Any thoughts?

flyer · 06-02-2008, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by NicholasN

I got away with a Sigma DG Macro f4-5.6 with the K100D however with the K20D pushing 15 mega-pixels f/6.3 is just not quick enough.

What does the f/6.3 have to do with 15 meg? The 15 meg is just a measure of resolution (more or less) and the 6.3 is how much light the lens let in. If you shoot at f/8 with a lens rated at 6.3 and one rated at f/4, you still have the same amount of light going through. I just don't get your way of thinking. With the K20D, you just have to push the ISO (all the way to 1600 if you need to) to get the speed you want and that is it. You also need to practice your panning (a lot). By the way, I'm also a plane "freak" and own a Cessna too and take a lot of planes and sailplane pictures and I don't have any problems with either the K10D or K20D. Here are three rules to follow: 1: practice. 2: practice. 3: practice.
Good Luck!

PentaxPoke · 06-02-2008, 04:44 PM

Nick,

Help us out here: What does 1/3 stop of aperture buy you? If you simply bump your iso to 125 from 100 you would make up the difference. I also still don't get what aperture speed has to do with the MP rating of the camera. They are unrelated.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but are you and the person at the camera store using a different definition of the term "fast"?

Arpe · 06-02-2008, 05:37 PM

Agree - bump up the ISO. I accidently took some sport shots in the weekend at ISO 4500. They're fine, though you would have more plain (no pun intended) areas for noise to show than my rugby photos.

NicholasN · 06-02-2008, 05:46 PM

The camera store guy tells me that the aperture is too slow and that the 15MP camera has alot more noise (due to more MP?) than my K100D.

My technique (panning etc) is well perfected, visit my site to see some of the great aviation shots I have on file:

Swirl » Page 1 of 15

I suppose I just have been given some really bad info from the camera store guys.

I really appreciate you guys helping me it gives me more confidence in my new camera.

Workingdog · 06-02-2008, 05:47 PM

Shoot at higher ISO. I get perfectly usable pictures with my K10D at ISO 800 after I apply a little noise reduction in postprocessing. With the K20's better high ISO performance you should be able to get the shutter speed you need.

Although the more megapixel = more noise is a sort of a general rule of thumb I don't think the camera store guy is at all familiar with the K20D's high ISO performance. From what I understand it's one of the better ones out there. That, or he's trying to sell you a lens.

PentaxPoke · 06-02-2008, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by NicholasN

The camera store guy tells me that the aperture is too slow and that the 15MP camera has alot more noise (due to more MP?) than my K100D.

My technique (panning etc) is well perfected, visit my site to see some of the great aviation shots I have on file:

Swirl » Page 1 of 15

I suppose I just have been given some really bad info from the camera store guys.

I really appreciate you guys helping me it gives me more confidence in my new camera.

Nick,

Wow, those camera store guys are ignorant or they are making you feel your equipment is inadequate so they can sell you more. Actually, I believe it is a bit of both. They are wrong about the aperture, and they are wrong about the increased noise of the k20d and they are especially wrong that these two things have anything to do with each other!

NicholasN · 06-02-2008, 07:05 PM

So basically the reason for the camera not taking a clear image at ISO100 is because there is not enough light coming through the lens for it to focus correctly?

06-01-2008, 10:00 PM	#1
NicholasN Inactive Account Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 301	Tamron 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 too slow, any ideas? I love aviation photography however since purchasing the k20D with the Tamron 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 I have found the lens too slow at anything over 150mm for action shots resulting in blurred images. Anybody here use a K20D for action photography who could recommend a faster lens that won't ruin my savings account balance? I miss my love of planes and desperately want to get back into it. Regards Nick

06-02-2008, 05:47 PM	#13
Workingdog Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: York, PA Photos: Gallery Posts: 736	Shoot at higher ISO. I get perfectly usable pictures with my K10D at ISO 800 after I apply a little noise reduction in postprocessing. With the K20's better high ISO performance you should be able to get the shutter speed you need. Although the more megapixel = more noise is a sort of a general rule of thumb I don't think the camera store guy is at all familiar with the K20D's high ISO performance. From what I understand it's one of the better ones out there. That, or he's trying to sell you a lens. Last edited by Workingdog; 06-02-2008 at 05:52 PM. Reason: just saw your latest post

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06-01-2008, 10:30 PM	#2
PentaxPoke Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,411	Hi Nick, I am nuts about planes as well. What shutter speed and ISO are you usually shooting? I often use my 18-250 for plane shots, and when zoomed at the 250 setting, I will often use the 1/500 or 1/750 shutter speed when tracking flying planes. I haven't had a problem yet with the lens not being fast enough, but usually it is full daylight. Is your problem shooting at dusk maybe?

06-02-2008, 12:51 AM	#3
NicholasN Inactive Account Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 301 Original Poster	I have a long history of aviation based photography. I was shooting at 1/750 at ISO 100 in perfect daylight. I went back to the camera store I purchased the stuff from and he said that the f/6.3 aperture is way too slow for what I want. I got away with a Sigma DG Macro f4-5.6 with the K100D however with the K20D pushing 15 mega-pixels f/6.3 is just not quick enough. What camera body are you using PentaxPoke? and which 18-250 lens? The Pentax DA? Regards Nick

06-02-2008, 04:07 AM	#4
Dale Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Surfcoast Victoria Australia Posts: 560	Originally posted by NicholasN I have a long history of aviation based photography. I was shooting at 1/750 at ISO 100 in perfect daylight. I went back to the camera store I purchased the stuff from and he said that the f/6.3 aperture is way too slow for what I want. I got away with a Sigma DG Macro f4-5.6 with the K100D however with the K20D pushing 15 mega-pixels f/6.3 is just not quick enough. What camera body are you using PentaxPoke? and which 18-250 lens? The Pentax DA? Regards Nick I've been shooting a mates Jabiru. I had the luxury of him doing several passes while I sorted out my technique. Using the Tamron AF70-300mm F4-5.6. Cheap lens somewhat sharpish at 300mm. I quickly found out that at shutter speeds of around 1/500, I couldn't pan smooth enough to get a sharp image. All shots were taken with the aircraft at 100 Kn IAS and down sun of me. I changed ISO to 200, and then shot as fast as I was able. I held the AF button down, and tracked the aircraft in as smooth a pan as possible. I suspect that the more panning practice I get, the better the shots will be. Advantge of fast shutter speed is a sharp image, but no propeller blurry disc. I'm hoping to improve my panning skills and then drop the shutter speed and get the blurred prop disc. First result with little PP: Details: Camera K10d 1/1500 at f5.6 300mm. ISO 200 Last edited by Dale; 06-02-2008 at 04:11 AM. Reason: added stuff

06-02-2008, 03:24 PM	#5
NicholasN Inactive Account Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 301 Original Poster	That Tamron your using is alot faster than mine. Yours is 5.6 @ 300mm and mine is 6.3 @ 300mm. I think I am going to have to find a faster lens. 6.3 is just not enough for a 15MP camera.

06-02-2008, 03:43 PM	#6
lbam Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery Posts: 442	With the K20D you've got the ability to crop a fair amount without losing a good picture... so you could go to something wider (and faster obviously), than 300mm perhaps? Just a thought.

06-02-2008, 04:11 PM	#7
PentaxPoke Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,411	Originally posted by NicholasN That Tamron your using is alot faster than mine. Yours is 5.6 @ 300mm and mine is 6.3 @ 300mm. I think I am going to have to find a faster lens. 6.3 is just not enough for a 15MP camera. Nick, I'm still not getting it. If you were shooting at ISO 100 and you are limited because of f6.3, why not just bump up to ISO200? Heck, on the k20d you could go to ISO 400 and not notice the difference. f5.6 is only a 1/3 stop from f 6.3! Just going from iso 100 to iso200 will give you double the light (1 full stop), and more than make up for the loss of 1/3 stop. I'm also not sure what the difference of a 1/3 stop has to do with a 15MP camera. Am I missing something? I think that camera store is just trying to sell you a new lens! To answer your question, I was using the k20d and k10d as well as the 18-250 in my signature below.

06-02-2008, 04:19 PM	#8
NicholasN Inactive Account Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 301 Original Poster	I was considering either the: Pentax DA 50-200mm f/4-5.6 Pentax 55-300mm f4-5.8 The 200mm is slightly quicker however the 300mm is good at f5.8 for the price. Any thoughts?

06-02-2008, 04:30 PM	#9
flyer Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ste-Anne des Plaines, Qc., Canada Posts: 2,013	Originally posted by NicholasN I got away with a Sigma DG Macro f4-5.6 with the K100D however with the K20D pushing 15 mega-pixels f/6.3 is just not quick enough. What does the f/6.3 have to do with 15 meg? The 15 meg is just a measure of resolution (more or less) and the 6.3 is how much light the lens let in. If you shoot at f/8 with a lens rated at 6.3 and one rated at f/4, you still have the same amount of light going through. I just don't get your way of thinking. With the K20D, you just have to push the ISO (all the way to 1600 if you need to) to get the speed you want and that is it. You also need to practice your panning (a lot). By the way, I'm also a plane "freak" and own a Cessna too and take a lot of planes and sailplane pictures and I don't have any problems with either the K10D or K20D. Here are three rules to follow: 1: practice. 2: practice. 3: practice. Good Luck!

06-02-2008, 04:44 PM	#10
PentaxPoke Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,411	Nick, Help us out here: What does 1/3 stop of aperture buy you? If you simply bump your iso to 125 from 100 you would make up the difference. I also still don't get what aperture speed has to do with the MP rating of the camera. They are unrelated. Please don't take this the wrong way, but are you and the person at the camera store using a different definition of the term "fast"?

06-02-2008, 05:37 PM	#11
Arpe Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,452	Agree - bump up the ISO. I accidently took some sport shots in the weekend at ISO 4500. They're fine, though you would have more plain (no pun intended) areas for noise to show than my rugby photos.

06-02-2008, 05:46 PM	#12
NicholasN Inactive Account Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 301 Original Poster	The camera store guy tells me that the aperture is too slow and that the 15MP camera has alot more noise (due to more MP?) than my K100D. My technique (panning etc) is well perfected, visit my site to see some of the great aviation shots I have on file: Swirl » Page 1 of 15 I suppose I just have been given some really bad info from the camera store guys. I really appreciate you guys helping me it gives me more confidence in my new camera.

06-02-2008, 05:50 PM	#14
PentaxPoke Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,411	Originally posted by NicholasN The camera store guy tells me that the aperture is too slow and that the 15MP camera has alot more noise (due to more MP?) than my K100D. My technique (panning etc) is well perfected, visit my site to see some of the great aviation shots I have on file: Swirl » Page 1 of 15 I suppose I just have been given some really bad info from the camera store guys. I really appreciate you guys helping me it gives me more confidence in my new camera. Nick, Wow, those camera store guys are ignorant or they are making you feel your equipment is inadequate so they can sell you more. Actually, I believe it is a bit of both. They are wrong about the aperture, and they are wrong about the increased noise of the k20d and they are especially wrong that these two things have anything to do with each other!

06-02-2008, 07:05 PM	#15
NicholasN Inactive Account Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 301 Original Poster	So basically the reason for the camera not taking a clear image at ISO100 is because there is not enough light coming through the lens for it to focus correctly?