[clackers]

As for lenses; if I have a 35mm 2.8 and a 135 2.8, I could achieve the same framing of my subject at the same f-stop (let's say f4) but gain DoF with the longer lens due to the increase in subject ditance to the lens, even though I have a magnified image?

No, a longer lens has less DoF.but in this case you're cancelling that out by moving further back. No cheating! :-)

[Greenneck]

Theres a deal on the da 50 right now if you check the price watch list

[nonstopnick]

I spent the first half of my day playing with my camera on the ranch. I woud shoot with different f-stops, shutter speeds and ISO, trying to ingrain the cause and effect of each. It rendered some interesting results, but most of all, improvement in the pictures I took.

I must commend all who contributed to this post, not just for your patient help and advice, but resisting the safe response of lens choice and letting me fail away. For all the talk about camera folks being equipment junkies, you folks came to my aid with solid advice regarding the equipment I already had. So, "thank you!".

Tomorrow is my birthday, and my wife has been asking me what I want to do. Since I work a lot, I have chosen to spend the day with my family and my camera, hiking around the ranch and taking lots of pictures, and I'm excited about both.

As for gear purchases; I think I will buy the DA 35 2.4 while it's on sale. We have visitors coming and I think it will be the right lens for gatherings. I also need recommendations for a decent hot shoe flash to start experimenting with.

Thank again!

My reading will continue, as will my questions.

[clackers]

As for gear purchases; I think I will buy the DA 35 2.4 while it's on sale. We have visitors coming and I think it will be the right lens for gatherings. I also need recommendations for a decent hot shoe flash to start experimenting with.

The DA35 is already one of the cheapest lenses in the lineup, ya tightwad! :-)

For a flash, the new one that's been announced has a lot to like about it as a first speedlight but something like the current 360 can swivel, so you can get realistic side lighting instead of just bouncing off the ceiling (which also has its place).

Your birthday plan sounds great - many happy returns.

[nonstopnick]

The DA35 is already one of the cheapest lenses in the lineup, ya tightwad! :-)

For a flash, the new one that's been announced has a lot to like about it as a first speedlight but something like the current 360 can swivel, so you can get realistic side lighting instead of just bouncing off the ceiling (which also has its place).

Your birthday plan sounds great - many happy returns.

Not cheap, clackers, "value driven."

[formercanuck]

Well, I'm not the pro in this department, however, I'm not that far from what you're using.

I have a DA 18-135mm, a Sigma 28mm f/2.8 A lens ($30) and a Cosina 50mm f/2 manual ($10).


I guess there's a couple of questions here:
1. How close do you want to get to your subject ?
2. Do you mind using a flash ?
3. DoF ?

You could probably use many different lenses to do the same job, depending on how far/close you need to be. I personally think that 35mm on APS-C is great.

I get a lot of indoor use out of the 28mm due to the fact that its wider. Having the 50mm a tad faster doesn't hurt, but many shots won't frame because of the focal length.
Its even worse with my Rokinon 85mm f/1.4 - its fast and very sharp - but unless I'm doing indoor headshots or specific items, and I don't WANT to be close (can't anyways) I don't get a whole lot of use out of it.

[nonstopnick]

Well, I'm not the pro in this department, however, I'm not that far from what you're using.

I have a DA 18-135mm, a Sigma 28mm f/2.8 A lens ($30) and a Cosina 50mm f/2 manual ($10).


I guess there's a couple of questions here:
1. How close do you want to get to your subject ?
2. Do you mind using a flash ?
3. DoF ?

You could probably use many different lenses to do the same job, depending on how far/close you need to be. I personally think that 35mm on APS-C is great.

I get a lot of indoor use out of the 28mm due to the fact that its wider. Having the 50mm a tad faster doesn't hurt, but many shots won't frame because of the focal length.
Its even worse with my Rokinon 85mm f/1.4 - its fast and very sharp - but unless I'm doing indoor headshots or specific items, and I don't WANT to be close (can't anyways) I don't get a whole lot of use out of it.

1) Where I will need a flash is inside the house and in a sheep stall / whelping box. One whelping area is 8x8 with windows on three sides, but the subjects are low to the ground. the other is about 10x12 and closed in on 3 sides. When in those spaces, especially the smaller of the two, it is hard to get any further away then 4-6 feet.
2) I don't mind using a flash, just don't know how yet. I think the fix for my DoF issue in such a small space is a bounce flash.
3) as for DoF; I would like to have 1 foot in that tight space if I could get it, but that is a tall order.

[sterretje]

First of all, happy birthday.

Next

1 foot DOF is quite possible with the lens set to 18mm and f/4 and a subject distance of 4 feet. At that distance, the 'width' of your shot will be approx. 5 foot (camera in landscape position).

Bounce flash might be a bit tricky in a sheep stall as the ceilings / walls are probably dark resulting in significant light loss and possibly a color cast. The solution for that is a diffuser added to the flash.

Given your requirements, I would advise to get a flash with plenty power; swivel option will be a little less important if you use a diffuser. For convenience, pTTL and/or auto-thyristor mode.
The Metz 44 more than likely fits the bill; it lacks HSS which is not relevant for your conditions but offers swivel; I don't know how strong the tilt hinge is (see comment below for AF360).
The first generation AF360 will also fit the bill if you want to stick with Pentax; it does not have a swivel head though but offers HSS (important if you want to flash outside in bright conditions) and auto-thyristor mode. If it's anything like the AF540, its weak point will be the strength of the tilt hinge that has difficulty staying in vertical position with heavier diffusers like the Rogue Flashbender that I use.

One of those would be what I would buy if my budget was around $200 and started with flash for general use.

It's a tough world out there. Member sagitta bought a Bolt flash; you might want to ask him (via e.g. PM) about his experience.

[UncleVanya]

I like Gary Fong's light sphere and think it might work well in the conditions described. It is durable and easy to attach to your flash.

[clackers]

I like Gary Fong's light sphere and think it might work well in the conditions described. It is durable and easy to attach to your flash.

It will be good in the hoise.

A Flasbender or softbox will br good in the sheep stall.

[UncleVanya]

It will be good in the hoise.

A Flasbender or softbox will br good in the sheep stall.

One of my reasons was the hard plastic which is easy to clean if it should get dropped. The limited directionality of the light sphere means a powerful flash is needed so I can see your logic I think.

[clackers]

I have the Fong - it's the opposite, throwing light everywhere so it's wasted outdoors or where there's a lack of suitable ceiling to bounce.

Like the Stofen, it's omnidirectional, which means it's good for groups of people or flat, uniform lighting of a subject.

My version compresses flat which is handy.

[Nicolas06]

Thanks for all the replies. As for DOF: i could get the shot at 35mm with my current lens at f4, but am stopping the lens down a couple stops to gain some DOF which means I have to crank the ISO. The da35 should give me more DOF at the same f4. Correct?

If you keep the framing and shooting distance the same (same amount of puppies in the photo) on the same camera ONLY apperture will change the deph of field.

So using a DA35 f/2.4 or a 18-135 or a 17-50 f/2.8 or a sigma 35mm f/1.4... All will give the same deph of field at f/4 than your 18-135 is providing.

In photography, all is about light, so in all honestly you should consider the lighting of your scene instead of trying to buy new lenses.

Put the puppies outside in daylight and there will be lot of light to play with and you'd be able to shoot at f/8-f/11 while keeping low isos. Be aware of the light direction overall and your picture will look infinitely better than with the best lense in a crappy light environement.

If you can't go outside, you can at least ensure your interior has some great lighting, ensure you shoot on a sunny day, ensure your are in a room with lot of light and windows, add the artificial lighting at your disposal to add even more light, choose a part of the room where the lighting is the best and make your puppies look the best and take some shoots. You may have to crack the iso to something like 800-1600, but that should be quite do-able.

Usually I would say to use a flash. I know you don't want too but there are the laws of physics and all the pro shooting portraiture use flashes system for a reason. That's not going to cut it with the bundled flash, so you need to buy one. There one drawback throught. i would say not linked at all with your willingness to use a flash or not, but the effect a flash can have on your puppies. I know for human babies flash is forbidden, there a risk it damage their eyes, at least when there are only a few month old. Could be the same for your puppies, I would not take the risk.

So instead of spending money on a lense that will reduce your deph of field even more, I would just ensure there lot of light available when taking the shoots.

As for the lenses, well DA35 and DA50 are great to help keep iso low by using their wide apperture. You'll get some shallow deph of fied in particular if you shooting from short distance but the DA35 should be able to give some deph of field for a wider shoot. That may not be that great for your puppies but that can be great for other occasions even through in interiors one often need wide angle more like a 15 or 24mm. DA21 f/3.2 is great but not really better than your DA18-135 for gathering light through at the same focal length.

Leaning to post process well your pictures, setting the right noise removal settings, using raws and the right exposure from the begining can also get some nice results. From a streigth JPEG or basic post post processing, you can gain easily 1EV of light. Using flashes skillfully will not necessarily lower your isos that much but make the lighting far better and the photo look much better.

[derekkite]

This all great stuff, thank you all very much. It sounds I need to purchase a decent flash and learn how to use it.

As for lenses; if I have a 35mm 2.8 and a 135 2.8, I could achieve the same framing of my subject at the same f-stop (let's say f4) but gain DoF with the longer lens due to the increase in subject ditance to the lens, even though I have a magnified image?

Pick up an inexpensive manual flash like a Yongnuo and a wireless trigger. Set the flash behind you, or some location where you get good coverage, bounce off the ceiling or walls. The dogs will get flash shy after a bit. My dogs go bury their heads when I show up with the camera.