super wide angle ? why so pricey ?

**Michaelina2** · 06-05-2008, 07:33 AM

My 2 cents...

Price has nothing to do with cost. (it's Econ 101's lesson one) The reason things are priced the way they are is because buyers will pay it (Econ 101's lesson two).

As to your 18-55... get to love it! The lens only does what you tell it to do. Need a wider reach? Step back. Can't step back? Take several images and PP a panorama. When you become frustrated, seek advice on how you can fine tune its variables to make them work better for you. In most cases, its the limitations imposed by one's own inexperience that's the issue. Granted it's much easier to blame the tool than look inward (Hey, I'm not immune. I do it all the time). It's easy to conclude you have an input problem, when in fact its processing and output that's the issue. I'll bet that crappy grahics cards, poor monitors and poor printers serve to stimulate more lens purchases than one could ever imagine.

Anyway... How did I come to this great 'A-HA'? Well... last night I slapped every lens in my tool box onto my K20D and using the same subject and same settings, I captured a series of identical RAW images. I ran them through the same PP program using the same crop and enhancement parameters, then PRINTED the results. I did the same thing using my K100D. If I were to lay all of the images out on the table and ask you to pick the K20D's or K100D's version of output from my FA 50 1.4, or DA 16-45, or 18-55 (oh no, a series I, phew), or 55-300, or..., you would not be able to do it. Every image was crisp and vibrant. Every image is gorgeous!

In a nutshell... Close your wallet and sharpen your noodle. Accept the challenge presented by the limitations imposed by ALL of your gear. Granted, it takes discipline (maybe even work... ugh!). If you hit a wall, come to the Oracle (this or any forum) and ask how you can do a better job with what you've got. Politely discount the 'get an new gizmo' response. Make the 18-55 perfect for your needs. It's a great lens. You can do it! I look forward to hearing you sing its praises...

Above all enjoy...

Last edited by Michaelina2; 06-05-2008 at 07:41 AM. Reason: typo

Zewrak · 06-05-2008, 07:39 AM

Peleng 8mm f3.5 Fisheye M42 Lens

zx-m · 06-05-2008, 07:40 AM

In general, lenses tend to be expensive--especially the ones with the funny names, like "Distagon" and "Sonnar." Most lenses are out of my price range, and I chuckle when I see the prices. Thus, if you would like excellent optics and build quality, all you have to do is buy a few Pentax M42 lenses. My latest buy is a Super Takumar 135/3.5: $33, with caps--and that is from KEH (EX condition). Again, I just laugh at the four-figure lenses

Glen

PS: Since you have cited wide-angle lenses, I thought I would add that I have also picked up a Super Takumar 35/3.5 for $62--with caps and case...again, from KEH (EX grade). A few weeks ago, I bought a Vivitar 28/2.5 on eBay for $25--including shipping. Also, I tend to avoid the super-wides, as they are expensive and, unless you can afford the very best, they often have limitations (i.e. distortion). Thus, the widest I go is 28mm, which, in digital, is about what your 18-55 will produce at the wide end.

Okami · 06-05-2008, 07:50 AM

Learn with your current equipment or get ready to shell out for new. Everyone has the same choices :P. I've been waiting for a good prince on the 10-20 or 12-24 also.

gkopeliadis · 06-05-2008, 07:50 AM

Originally posted by Michaelina2

If I were to lay all of the images out on the table and ask you to pick the K20D's or K100D's version of output from my FA 50 1.4, or DA 16-45, or 18-55 (oh no, a series I, phew), or 55-300, or..., you would not be able to do it.

I do just that for living

Just print large enough on a good photoprinter on photopaper pro.
Or do the comparison on a photo calibrated monitor and controlled lighting conditions.
And of course photograph in well controlled conditions.

But you are right for the most part of your post!

**Michaelina2** · 06-05-2008, 09:13 AM

I do just that for living

Just print large enough on a good photoprinter on photopaper pro.
Or do the comparison on a photo calibrated monitor and controlled lighting conditions.
And of course photograph in well controlled conditions.

Thanks for the note... you are a lot closer to Delphi than Ill ever be...

Alas, one of my 'western' cultural biases is that I operate using the "common man (or woman)" rule; that is, the tool's gotta be available to common duffer's (like me).

You are highly specialized. You know how to spot minute flaws. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for doing things better and I'm sure if my assessment setting met your test tool's tolerances, I'd see a difference, too. I'll still bet, however, that the difference observed by my synthetic common person would be incrementally small.

Please put in a good word for me to the Oracle... I need all the help she can give!

madbrain · 06-05-2008, 03:13 PM

Hi,

Originally posted by Michaelina2

My 2 cents...

Price has nothing to do with cost. (it's Econ 101's lesson one) The reason things are priced the way they are is because buyers will pay it (Econ 101's lesson two).

Well this buyer won't pay it right now.

Quote:

As to your 18-55... get to love it! The lens only does what you tell it to do. Need a wider reach? Step back. Can't step back? Take several images and PP a panorama.

It's for the cases I can't step back that I want it. What's PP ? The software that comes with the Pentax is very minimalist and does not do panoramas. I don't have anything else that does either.

ballgofar · 06-05-2008, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by Zewrak

Peleng 8mm f3.5 Fisheye M42 Lens

WHOA! Has anyone actually used this thing? I'm extremely curious.

Kguru · 06-05-2008, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by madbrain

What are the options in between a useless $30 wide converter and a $500 sigma 10-20 lens ?

Has someone mentioned the DA 10-17 fisheye?
Around $300-330 on Marketplace here plus $15 for PTlens to de-fish.

**pentagor** · 06-05-2008, 11:08 PM

Originally posted by ballgofar

WHOA! Has anyone actually used this thing? I'm extremely curious.

Me too!

ryan s · 06-06-2008, 12:06 AM

Originally posted by ballgofar

WHOA! Has anyone actually used this thing? I'm extremely curious.

Originally posted by pentagor

Me too!

pentagor...are you izo on MFF? You could check out some of buze's stuff...I believe he has the Peleng. Also Rob Leslie has a few shots.

All I know is...the Peleng would be funnnnnnn

ryan s · 06-06-2008, 12:10 AM

Well, here are a couple links cause I'm feeling generous

Manual Focus Forum / Fisheye in the Woods
Manual Focus Forum / [Peleng] Some more...
Manual Focus Forum / [Peleng] Pebble, etc
Manual Focus Forum / Peleng - some fisheye pics

alohadave · 06-06-2008, 05:35 AM

Originally posted by madbrain

Hi,

Well this buyer won't pay it right now.

It's for the cases I can't step back that I want it. What's PP ? The software that comes with the Pentax is very minimalist and does not do panoramas. I don't have anything else that does either.

PP is Post Production, and indicates anything that you'd do on a computer after the pictures are taken.

There are several free applications that will do panoramas. Autostitch is probably the most well know, with others like hugin or PTGui also highly regarded.

06-05-2008, 07:40 AM	#18
zx-m Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 376	In general, lenses tend to be expensive--especially the ones with the funny names, like "Distagon" and "Sonnar." Most lenses are out of my price range, and I chuckle when I see the prices. Thus, if you would like excellent optics and build quality, all you have to do is buy a few Pentax M42 lenses. My latest buy is a Super Takumar 135/3.5: $33, with caps--and that is from KEH (EX condition). Again, I just laugh at the four-figure lenses Glen PS: Since you have cited wide-angle lenses, I thought I would add that I have also picked up a Super Takumar 35/3.5 for $62--with caps and case...again, from KEH (EX grade). A few weeks ago, I bought a Vivitar 28/2.5 on eBay for $25--including shipping. Also, I tend to avoid the super-wides, as they are expensive and, unless you can afford the very best, they often have limitations (i.e. distortion). Thus, the widest I go is 28mm, which, in digital, is about what your 18-55 will produce at the wide end. Last edited by zx-m; 06-05-2008 at 08:10 AM.

06-05-2008, 09:13 AM	#21
Michaelina2 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SE Michigan USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,302	I do just that for living Just print large enough on a good photoprinter on photopaper pro. Or do the comparison on a photo calibrated monitor and controlled lighting conditions. And of course photograph in well controlled conditions. Thanks for the note... you are a lot closer to Delphi than Ill ever be... Alas, one of my 'western' cultural biases is that I operate using the "common man (or woman)" rule; that is, the tool's gotta be available to common duffer's (like me). You are highly specialized. You know how to spot minute flaws. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for doing things better and I'm sure if my assessment setting met your test tool's tolerances, I'd see a difference, too. I'll still bet, however, that the difference observed by my synthetic common person would be incrementally small. Please put in a good word for me to the Oracle... I need all the help she can give! Last edited by Michaelina2; 06-05-2008 at 09:15 AM. Reason: typo

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06-05-2008, 07:33 AM	#16
Michaelina2 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SE Michigan USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,302	My 2 cents... Price has nothing to do with cost. (it's Econ 101's lesson one) The reason things are priced the way they are is because buyers will pay it (Econ 101's lesson two). As to your 18-55... get to love it! The lens only does what you tell it to do. Need a wider reach? Step back. Can't step back? Take several images and PP a panorama. When you become frustrated, seek advice on how you can fine tune its variables to make them work better for you. In most cases, its the limitations imposed by one's own inexperience that's the issue. Granted it's much easier to blame the tool than look inward (Hey, I'm not immune. I do it all the time). It's easy to conclude you have an input problem, when in fact its processing and output that's the issue. I'll bet that crappy grahics cards, poor monitors and poor printers serve to stimulate more lens purchases than one could ever imagine. Anyway... How did I come to this great 'A-HA'? Well... last night I slapped every lens in my tool box onto my K20D and using the same subject and same settings, I captured a series of identical RAW images. I ran them through the same PP program using the same crop and enhancement parameters, then PRINTED the results. I did the same thing using my K100D. If I were to lay all of the images out on the table and ask you to pick the K20D's or K100D's version of output from my FA 50 1.4, or DA 16-45, or 18-55 (oh no, a series I, phew), or 55-300, or..., you would not be able to do it. Every image was crisp and vibrant. Every image is gorgeous! In a nutshell... Close your wallet and sharpen your noodle. Accept the challenge presented by the limitations imposed by ALL of your gear. Granted, it takes discipline (maybe even work... ugh!). If you hit a wall, come to the Oracle (this or any forum) and ask how you can do a better job with what you've got. Politely discount the 'get an new gizmo' response. Make the 18-55 perfect for your needs. It's a great lens. You can do it! I look forward to hearing you sing its praises... Above all enjoy... Last edited by Michaelina2; 06-05-2008 at 07:41 AM. Reason: typo

06-05-2008, 07:39 AM	#17
Zewrak Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Nowhere, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 654	Peleng 8mm f3.5 Fisheye M42 Lens

06-05-2008, 07:50 AM	#19
Okami Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Georgia Posts: 376	Learn with your current equipment or get ready to shell out for new. Everyone has the same choices :P. I've been waiting for a good prince on the 10-20 or 12-24 also.

06-05-2008, 07:50 AM	#20
gkopeliadis Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: ATHENS, GREECE Posts: 308	Originally posted by Michaelina2 If I were to lay all of the images out on the table and ask you to pick the K20D's or K100D's version of output from my FA 50 1.4, or DA 16-45, or 18-55 (oh no, a series I, phew), or 55-300, or..., you would not be able to do it. I do just that for living Just print large enough on a good photoprinter on photopaper pro. Or do the comparison on a photo calibrated monitor and controlled lighting conditions. And of course photograph in well controlled conditions. But you are right for the most part of your post!

06-05-2008, 03:13 PM	#22
madbrain Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341 Original Poster	Hi, Originally posted by Michaelina2 My 2 cents... Price has nothing to do with cost. (it's Econ 101's lesson one) The reason things are priced the way they are is because buyers will pay it (Econ 101's lesson two). Well this buyer won't pay it right now. Quote: As to your 18-55... get to love it! The lens only does what you tell it to do. Need a wider reach? Step back. Can't step back? Take several images and PP a panorama. It's for the cases I can't step back that I want it. What's PP ? The software that comes with the Pentax is very minimalist and does not do panoramas. I don't have anything else that does either.

06-05-2008, 07:02 PM	#23
ballgofar Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 87	Originally posted by Zewrak Peleng 8mm f3.5 Fisheye M42 Lens WHOA! Has anyone actually used this thing? I'm extremely curious.

06-05-2008, 07:25 PM	#24
Kguru Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Perth - WestAust Posts: 602	Originally posted by madbrain What are the options in between a useless $30 wide converter and a $500 sigma 10-20 lens ? Has someone mentioned the DA 10-17 fisheye? Around $300-330 on Marketplace here plus $15 for PTlens to de-fish.

06-05-2008, 11:08 PM	#25
pentagor Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia Posts: 495	Originally posted by ballgofar WHOA! Has anyone actually used this thing? I'm extremely curious. Me too!

06-06-2008, 12:06 AM	#26
ryan s Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Madison, WI Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,383	Originally posted by ballgofar WHOA! Has anyone actually used this thing? I'm extremely curious. Originally posted by pentagor Me too! pentagor...are you izo on MFF? You could check out some of buze's stuff...I believe he has the Peleng. Also Rob Leslie has a few shots. All I know is...the Peleng would be funnnnnnn

06-06-2008, 12:10 AM	#27
ryan s Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Madison, WI Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,383	Well, here are a couple links cause I'm feeling generous Manual Focus Forum / Fisheye in the Woods Manual Focus Forum / [Peleng] Some more... Manual Focus Forum / [Peleng] Pebble, etc Manual Focus Forum / Peleng - some fisheye pics

06-06-2008, 05:35 AM	#28
alohadave Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Quincy, MA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,024	Originally posted by madbrain Hi, Well this buyer won't pay it right now. It's for the cases I can't step back that I want it. What's PP ? The software that comes with the Pentax is very minimalist and does not do panoramas. I don't have anything else that does either. PP is Post Production, and indicates anything that you'd do on a computer after the pictures are taken. There are several free applications that will do panoramas. Autostitch is probably the most well know, with others like hugin or PTGui also highly regarded.