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05-01-2015, 07:12 AM   #1
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Removing Super Multi Coated Takumar 28/3.5 Name Ring

Hi everyone
I'm looking to see if any one has a good tip for removing a very stiff/tight name ring from a Super Multi Coated Takumar 28/3.5.

I recently received a a copy of this lens which is in great condition on the outside...but does need a clean inside for some mild fungus under the front element.

I have taken apart a few few Super-Taks before, normally using a rubber plug which has an appropriately sized diameter for unscrewing the front name ring, allowing access to the front element.

This lens has currently got me beat! I've tried my usual rubber plug, a brand new rubber plug with a slightly different diameter, as well as having tried using a rubber o-ring and also using the "double sided tape on the rear lens cap method"...all with no joy. I can't exert enough force to get the name ring to move before the rubber slips on the ring, with any of these methods.
I'm VERY hesitant to try any sort of lubricant or solvent on the name ring to try and loosen its grip. The only other thing I can think to do is to drill a couple of small opposing holes to apply a lens spanner to.

So, anyone out there got any suggestions for what I could try?

Cheers
Dean

05-01-2015, 07:22 AM   #2
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I had a Chinon 135 with fungus that was stubborn. Finally gave up and sold it as is with the fungus.
05-01-2015, 07:26 AM   #3
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Maybe it doesn't come off that way? There are a few that don't but I really don't know that lens. Also sometimes people glue them on...
05-01-2015, 07:36 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney Quote
Maybe it doesn't come off that way? There are a few that don't but I really don't know that lens. Also sometimes people glue them on...
Thanks vonBaloney. I should have mentioned that I did look up a disassembly video on YouTube which has the name ring screwing of as normal...but the thought that someone could have glued it didn't cross my mind...I hope not!

---------- Post added 05-01-15 at 10:39 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rimfiredude Quote
I had a Chinon 135 with fungus that was stubborn. Finally gave up and sold it as is with the fungus.
Yeah, it may end up a paper weight. Having said that, these are not worth big bucks, so if the name ring ends up getting semi-destroyed getting it off (ie. drilled) and I can still have a play with it, then that might have to be the go.

05-01-2015, 07:54 AM   #5
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Don't give up yet.

A stuck name ring can be a nightmare to remove. Just a tiny bit of dust or grit in the threads (well hidden) can make it seem the ring had been glued on. While I use rubber plugs to remove the rings, and most of the time that works, there comes that lens that just refuses to budge.
The main issue (just like stuck filters) is the more pressure you apply to get grip, also presses the ring tighter into the sticky threads.

One way that nearly always works for me is to find a ring of exactly the right diameter. I've used the top of a glass jar, or the rim of a lens rear cap, etc. etc. - so long as it only touches the name ring (not the filter threads or the glass). Sometimes the rubber plug is perfect diameter. Then I apply contact cement to the rim and let it sit on the name ring until dry. It's shocking how easily the ring will turn with only light pressure on your glued-on device. Once free, it's no biggie to pry the ring off and remove the contact cement with lighter fluid, leaving the name ring spotless and intact.

Should that not work, there is only one more drastic measure I can propose. Find two blank spots on the name ring opposite each other and drill small holes through the ring (I know, I know). Then a round-tipped lens spanner will usually unscrew the ring without fuss. Before re-assembling, some aluminum black or even black paint can make the little holes almost disappear. It's a last resort, but if it puts a lens back into service that would otherwise be scrapped or ignored....
05-01-2015, 07:55 AM   #6
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Does it have any notches? Lots of lens plates do, and if it does and you don't have a spanner wrench, you can often nudge the ring into beginning to turn by sticking a small screwdriver into the notch at an angle and then tapping the end of the screwdriver handle. You might need someone to hold the lens for you though. I usually hold the lens between my legs but the idea of doing anything with a hammer between my legs can be a bit frightening. Oh, and if it has no notches, you can sometimes use the lettering, if it's the engraved type, not simply painted on. You will likely mar one of the letters that way. I recommend you choose the P because it's the biggest and boldest and needs smacked-down anyway for being so upper-case-ity.
05-01-2015, 07:55 AM   #7
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You could try heating up the lens a little bit if you have the means, might loosen something -- not too hot (100-120F) -- then try to loosen when it is still warm. And figure out how to maximize grippiness with your rubber things using tape, etc. Beyond that you are looking at using acetone or penetrating oil, etc
05-01-2015, 08:06 AM   #8
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I had to disassemble my own SMC Takumar 28mm/3.5 to de-fungus it just last week, and also found the name ring very stubborn to remove. I ended up using pretty much the same technique that Wolfeye has suggested. I used a sharp spike-ended tool that came with my miniature screwdrivers and dug it into the engraved lettering to get a grip, then tapped the end. I ended up scratching the lettering slightly, but it's a lot less unsightly than leaving two holes drilled in the name ring.

05-01-2015, 12:56 PM   #9
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I was thinking in the opposite direction to vonBaloney, how about a visit to the freezer, cold makes things contract and I've used my Taks outside in the winter for hours with no harm.
05-01-2015, 10:50 PM   #10
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A few times I have mentioned a method I found helpful with very tight name rings. Put very small double sided sticky foam on a few points around the ring. Avoid touching the glass with it - obvious. Then fro 49mm filter size an M42 read cap can be used as the wrench tool. For 58mm I think the 49mm front cap works.


This method works for very tight rings - such as one I had with paper wedged in to make it tighter.
05-02-2015, 04:13 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ontarian50 Quote
A stuck name ring can be a nightmare to remove. Just a tiny bit of dust or grit in the threads (well hidden) can make it seem the ring had been glued on. While I use rubber plugs to remove the rings, and most of the time that works, there comes that lens that just refuses to budge.
The main issue (just like stuck filters) is the more pressure you apply to get grip, also presses the ring tighter into the sticky threads.

One way that nearly always works for me is to find a ring of exactly the right diameter. I've used the top of a glass jar, or the rim of a lens rear cap, etc. etc. - so long as it only touches the name ring (not the filter threads or the glass). Sometimes the rubber plug is perfect diameter. Then I apply contact cement to the rim and let it sit on the name ring until dry. It's shocking how easily the ring will turn with only light pressure on your glued-on device. Once free, it's no biggie to pry the ring off and remove the contact cement with lighter fluid, leaving the name ring spotless and intact.

Should that not work, there is only one more drastic measure I can propose. Find two blank spots on the name ring opposite each other and drill small holes through the ring (I know, I know). Then a round-tipped lens spanner will usually unscrew the ring without fuss. Before re-assembling, some aluminum black or even black paint can make the little holes almost disappear. It's a last resort, but if it puts a lens back into service that would otherwise be scrapped or ignored....
Thanks for the post Ontarian50.
I hadn't even thought about the idea of glue! I can see how that could work, and as you said would likely leave the name ring in better shape than a more destructive (drilling) approach. I might try the heat method mentioned in a later post first, and if still no joy then I may well try the glue method. I'll update with my success (or failure...).
Cheers

---------- Post added 05-03-15 at 07:27 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Wolfeye Quote
Does it have any notches? Lots of lens plates do, and if it does and you don't have a spanner wrench, you can often nudge the ring into beginning to turn by sticking a small screwdriver into the notch at an angle and then tapping the end of the screwdriver handle. You might need someone to hold the lens for you though. I usually hold the lens between my legs but the idea of doing anything with a hammer between my legs can be a bit frightening. Oh, and if it has no notches, you can sometimes use the lettering, if it's the engraved type, not simply painted on. You will likely mar one of the letters that way. I recommend you choose the P because it's the biggest and boldest and needs smacked-down anyway for being so upper-case-ity.
Thanks Wolfeye. Yes, I've given that uppity P a bit of go too, though I'm also partial to the T in Takumar and even the M in Multi. Put a bit of force into it, with no luck yet. Well...a little bit of luck...I didn't gouge my off hand with the screwdriver yet! Unfortunately no notches for a lens spanner on this lens. I should have mentioned in my original post that I had tried the angled screw driver in the letter method. I could probably work it a bit harder, but I'll try a few other approaches first and see how I go.
05-02-2015, 06:35 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dean Bradshaw Quote
Hi everyone
I'm looking to see if any one has a good tip for removing a very stiff/tight name ring from a Super Multi Coated Takumar 28/3.5.

I recently received a a copy of this lens which is in great condition on the outside...but does need a clean inside for some mild fungus under the front element.

I have taken apart a few few Super-Taks before, normally using a rubber plug which has an appropriately sized diameter for unscrewing the front name ring, allowing access to the front element.

This lens has currently got me beat! I've tried my usual rubber plug, a brand new rubber plug with a slightly different diameter, as well as having tried using a rubber o-ring and also using the "double sided tape on the rear lens cap method"...all with no joy. I can't exert enough force to get the name ring to move before the rubber slips on the ring, with any of these methods.
I'm VERY hesitant to try any sort of lubricant or solvent on the name ring to try and loosen its grip. The only other thing I can think to do is to drill a couple of small opposing holes to apply a lens spanner to.

So, anyone out there got any suggestions for what I could try?

Cheers
Dean
I watched this video and the tool he used looked pretty good it looks like a caliper you can get at lowes . But I guess your talking about the tape over the cap tool he made at the very beginning .

Last edited by pentaxk3user; 05-03-2015 at 06:34 AM.
05-02-2015, 07:05 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney Quote
You could try heating up the lens a little bit if you have the means, might loosen something -- not too hot (100-120F) -- then try to loosen when it is still warm. And figure out how to maximize grippiness with your rubber things using tape, etc. Beyond that you are looking at using acetone or penetrating oil, etc
Thanks vonBaloney. Yeah, I think heat may be the way to go, when time permits that's my next option to try. I'm really hesistant to try lubricants or solvents, as I can be a heavy handed...liable to do more harm than good...but we'll see what works...

---------- Post added 05-03-15 at 10:09 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Dartmoor Dave Quote
I had to disassemble my own SMC Takumar 28mm/3.5 to de-fungus it just last week, and also found the name ring very stubborn to remove. I ended up using pretty much the same technique that Wolfeye has suggested. I used a sharp spike-ended tool that came with my miniature screwdrivers and dug it into the engraved lettering to get a grip, then tapped the end. I ended up scratching the lettering slightly, but it's a lot less unsightly than leaving two holes drilled in the name ring.
Thanks Dave. I have been successful with that method in the past with other Takumars, and have tried it this time around too, but no joy. I've put a bit of force into the angled screw driver against the letter edge, but not feeling any give yet...if I keep going with this approach I'm highly likely to put a screw driver through my hand soon
I agree with you on the drilled holes, that's going to be last resort...I wish all lenses just had notches for a lens spanner.

---------- Post added 05-03-15 at 10:13 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by originalwinger Quote
I was thinking in the opposite direction to vonBaloney, how about a visit to the freezer, cold makes things contract and I've used my Taks outside in the winter for hours with no harm.
Hi originalwinger. I think the voting is 2:1 in the heat v. cold staked at the moment. I can see what you're thinking, but I can also see dcshooter's point...if both the lens body and the name ring contract to the same extant anything binding them may just bind further/harder. I'll try the heat when time permits and report back.

---------- Post added 05-03-15 at 10:23 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
RE: heat vs cold, heat is definitely the way to go. About a minute or two under a hair dryer, then the rubber tool. The barrel and ring are both aluminum, so they will expand and contract at more or less the same rate, meaning the tiny gaps between the threads of the two components will expand and contract proportionally as the components themselves do. Any debris trapped in there will be only wedged in more tightly if the lens gets colder and shrinks.

Takumar lenses generally don't use threadlocker in their construction like a lot of other vintage lenses do, but if it has been worked on before, the tech might have applied some during reassembly. It's also worth applying a few drops of MEK or similar solvent to the thread to see if that loosens things up. I highly advise against any kind of penetrating oil unless you want to later completely disassemble the lens down to single blades, elements, etc. and clean them all one by one. There's a reason the stuff has the name it does!

The best rubber tool, in my experience, is a size 9 natural rubber bung stopper from your local homebrew store. I seem to recall there being several such stores around Perth from when I was doing my studies there. Not sure what you're using now, but the natural rubber tends to be much grippier than the vulcanized/synthetic rubbers used in drain stoppers and the like.
Hi dcshooter. Thanks for your input. Sounds like the heat option is the next option to try. Thanks for the advice on the natural rubber stopper...I can see how the synthetic plug I'm using currently wouldn't have the same grip as the natural rubber. I'll see if I can pick one up. There are still a few home brew stores around for sure

Just curious, and if you don't mind me asking, where and when did you study in Perth? My wife is an academic at Murdoch University and I use to work in a non-academic role on the UWA campus.

Also, just gotta say I love seeing the re-finishing work you've done on vintage lenses...they really are stunning and I think it's great to see these old lenses brought back to life.

---------- Post added 05-03-15 at 10:27 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by tim60 Quote
A few times I have mentioned a method I found helpful with very tight name rings. Put very small double sided sticky foam on a few points around the ring. Avoid touching the glass with it - obvious. Then fro 49mm filter size an M42 read cap can be used as the wrench tool. For 58mm I think the 49mm front cap works.


This method works for very tight rings - such as one I had with paper wedged in to make it tighter.
Thanks tim60. Hmmm...that sounds like well worth a shot. I had tried the rolled tape on the rear lens cap method, but found it didn't help at all, compared to the rubber plug. That double sided foam tape tends to be ate adhesive, so I can see how applying that directly to the lens ring could provide some extra traction. I'll see if I have some in the shed, or pick some up. Might try this in conjunction with the heat method? Well, I'll see how I go.

---------- Post added 05-03-15 at 10:47 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxk3user Quote
I watched this video and the tool he used looked pretty good it looks like a caliper you can get at lowes . https://youtu.be/-rlDO5Qj6cU
Thanks pentaxk3user. In the video it's actually the first step, up until about the 0:45 mark, that is this issue. When trying to access the front lens element you need to remove the name ring on the front of the lens. On the Takumar lenses there are no notches to allow use of this sort of caliper lens spanner on the name ring...generally a friction tool of some sort is required. I do have a similar, but different, lens spanner, which is great for accessing the rear lens elements, and for the internal elements...but no help in this case unfortunately. For anyone working on older lenses I would highly recommend obtaining a lens spanner, it does make life much easier for much of the work.
Cheers
05-02-2015, 10:16 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxk3user Quote
I watched this video and the tool he used looked pretty good it looks like a caliper you can get at lowes . https://youtu.be/-rlDO5Qj6cU


I was recommended that solution by a guy in a camera shop who does repairs.


Buy a set only for use for this (it will mess up calibration as calipers). The man in the shop recommended grinding the points to be like a lens spanner. I would much prefer that to using a screwdriver - that is much more likely to slip, which could add to damage.
05-03-2015, 06:44 AM   #15
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A note about heat/cold. It works best when there is a temperature differential between the two components. You want the inner component cold (so it contracts), and you want the outer component warm (so it expands.) I typically chill the item first, and then selectively warm only the outer part, this seems to create the biggest difference and be most effective.

if you haven't already checked, look for any minor dings around the outside that may be causing the threads to jam together. Sometimes a tiny bend will really jam it hard.
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