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05-11-2015, 06:04 PM   #31
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Back in 2005/6, I went with Pentax for several reasons, in body stabilization being one, legacy lens comparability being another. However the largest reason was their history of having great lenses - and at that time I was thinking of the Taks.

Pentax has demonstrated some excellent bodies encompassing great designs, meeting and exceeding other vendor's feature sets, especially when paired with wonderful their user ergonomics. This coupled with being known for excellent small primes - should be a great springboard for new lens designs.

Fast forward to today and the future. Pentax has quite a library of great legacy lens designs, that can/should be reworked (or at least used as the starting design point) with modern lens design tools, coating, WR/AW, manual clutch and other technologies/features. The Amigos are pretty unique focal lengths - just leave them alone for the time being. Design some great lenses at the traditional full frame focal lengths - 15, 20, 28, 35, 50, 85, etc. At one time they were producing the same design of the famous Zeiss Distagon 28/f2. Build out the new lens library - demonstrating a continued excellent in lenses. Mid way through the set or towards the end, then update the Amigos.

One thing I am sorry to not see included is the screw drive capability in the new zooms. Lens are optics, and I hate to see a lens functionality be diminished by electronic failures. The old SDM problems still resonates with me. I did not have any of the lenses, but I wanted lenses that would just work - first time, next time - all the time. Having a screw drive capability in both the lens and body, especially in a pinch having the ability/option to enable the screw drive in lieu of SDM would be a really nice touch.



05-11-2015, 06:23 PM   #32
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agree with you, SDM engines are unstable never know when to stop working, not for life, the hardest-old will be spare parts.

do not see these long-term lenses, like the old tak.

like the lenses, with a key, SDM and screw drive
I'm sure my fa * 28 70, will work over the next 20 years.
05-11-2015, 06:28 PM   #33
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Pentax is trying to fill the FF lens lineup in a hurry (we got the D-Fa zooms coming up). It wouldn't make sense to start producing updated d-FA ltds (we already got plenty of those around) when they can use their manufacturing facilities to make exciting brand new lenses. Bringing these lenses on top of whatever Fa glass is out there would be the best way to give the FF adopters even more choice..

Last edited by Stavri; 05-11-2015 at 07:39 PM.
05-11-2015, 07:34 PM   #34
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Yeesh. SDM doesn't exist any more. It's a DC high-torque ring motor. Where would you put the gear train?

05-11-2015, 07:37 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Stavri Quote
Pentax is trying to fill the FF lens lineup in a hurry (we got the D-Fa zooms coming up). It wouldn't make sense to start producing updated d-FA ltds (we already got plenty of those around) when they can use their manufacturing facilities to make brand new and exciting lenses. Bringing new lenses on top of whatever Fa lenses are out there would be the best way to give the FF adopters even more choice..
I disagree. I think combining the beloved optics with silent motors and updated coatings would be a huge win for the company. The lenses could still be more compact than the competition, but could compete with something like the Sony Zeiss lenses.
05-11-2015, 07:41 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
I disagree. I think combining the beloved optics with silent motors and updated coatings would be a huge win for the company. The lenses could still be more compact than the competition, but could compete with something like the Sony Zeiss lenses.
So you're saying the Fa ltd suffer from noisy AF and outdated coatings....something that needs to be rectified right away, so that you can buy them both and wreck your brain out pixel peeping the differences? You wouldn't rather have a modern 18mm f3.5, a 200mm f4 macro or a 300mm f2.8 instead and use the existing Fa ltd lenses a while longer?

Last edited by Stavri; 05-11-2015 at 08:10 PM.
05-11-2015, 08:12 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
I think combining the beloved optics with silent motors and updated coatings would be a huge win for the company.
Yes this, or completely new ones, either way is good, but FF must have screw drive
05-11-2015, 11:49 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Stavri Quote
So you're saying the Fa ltd suffer from noisy AF and outdated coatings....something that needs to be rectified right away, so that you can buy them both and wreck your brain out pixel peeping the differences? You wouldn't rather have a modern 18mm f3.5, a 200mm f4 macro or a 300mm f2.8 instead and use the existing Fa ltd lenses a while longer?
No, that is not what I'm saying at all. If you ask most people what the best, most unique Pentax offering is, they will say the FA limited line. I'm saying they could capitalize on this at launch by preserving the optics, and therefore the heritage and prestige, but draw attention and new users by offering current marketplace features.

---------- Post added 05-11-15 at 11:50 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by beachgardener Quote
Yes this, or completely new ones, either way is good, but FF must have screw drive
I agree, screw drive should be an option.

05-12-2015, 04:46 AM   #39
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I can understand the rationale behind needing high-spec zooms to go along with the FF camera either at launch or before but TBH if Pentax wants to carve a niche for itself then creating a line of limited primes for the FF camera is going to an important step.
05-12-2015, 05:12 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
I disagree. I think combining the beloved optics with silent motors and updated coatings would be a huge win for the company. The lenses could still be more compact than the competition, but could compete with something like the Sony Zeiss lenses.
I'm not sure this is feasible without redesigning the focusing elements. Hence, you may well end up with a different optical construction....
05-12-2015, 06:53 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
What will be difficult for Ricoh is knowing whether an altered FA Ltd design is better, worse, or just different than the original. As opposed to measuring things like resolution, etc., effects of pixie dust are far harder to quantify. Also, different people measure pixie dust effects differently. I can see this as a reason for them to be quite cautious in messing with these three lenses.
Agree.

---------- Post added 05-12-15 at 10:55 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Stavri Quote
Progress without perspective almost always results in catastrophe. Be careful what kind of "improvements" you wish for.
Well stated.

---------- Post added 05-12-15 at 10:57 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by tvdtvdtvd Quote
The existing FA limiteds are optimal designs. Tweaking them is more likely to pull them out of balance than improve them.
I would think so too. The rendering character of the three FA LTDs is something that has come to be highly regarded and prized, the direct result of a design balance painstakingly arrived at, under the watchful eyes of Jun Hirakawa. Truly special rendering.

All too easy to unravel that balance; much harder practically speaking to modify that optical character and actually come up with something "better".

Not to say that other lens designers can't do a good job - not at all, but the results would be different, and I think that's the heart of the matter.

Last edited by KDAFA; 05-12-2015 at 07:21 AM.
05-12-2015, 08:27 AM   #42
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I don't think there is anything to fear about Ricoh updating the FA limiteds. There are new coatings (HD and Aerobright II) that could be added, not to mention the possibility of WR and quiet focusing with quick shift. Even if you prefer the old design, they have been around for 15 yrears, so there is a plentiful supply on the used market.

I think the fact that the DA limiteds were brought up to date so quickly and the DA zoom proved that Ricoh sees the importance of the limiteds. I don't think it was a coincidence that the FF mock-up was shown with the 31 ltd mounted. A more obvious choice would have been on of the new telezooms, but they featured the limited and I think there was a point to that. In fact, I think they will not just continue the line, but add to it with new models.

In any case, I think the all of the film-era FA models are on the way out. I picked up the Japanese catalogue for the K-3 II the other day and the FA Limiteds are not in the list of current lenses, whereas all of the DAs and D FAs are.
05-12-2015, 09:17 AM   #43
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Well, based on pretty much any source the FA Ltd.s are out of production, so it's pretty obvious that they will be updated. The question is how, and there are two options - extensive updates (including HD, DC, WR) plus an expansion of the (D) FA Ltd. line, for example in the wide angle department, or minor upgrades (only HD and possibly rounded aperture blades) plus the creation of a new line of fast, modern (DC, WR) primes.
05-12-2015, 09:23 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
I don't think it was a coincidence that the FF mock-up was shown with the 31 ltd mounted. A more obvious choice would have been on of the new telezooms, but they featured the limited and I think there was a point to that. In fact, I think they will not just continue the line, but add to it with new models.
Well said. There seems to be a strong push at the moment from the Pentaxian community to see Pentax 'catch up' with
the Canikony offerings. Frequent requests and demands for zooms & primes that are fast and of conventional focal length.
Why? So we can assimilate into a grand Pentacanikony?

I don't mind seeing the FA limiteds retired. But I do hope/expect to see distinctly Pentax replacements in their wake.
How about a 25mm/2.6? Or a 57mm/1.7? Or a 74mm/1.7? Or a 121mm/3.2 Macro? All in HD AW/WR Limited design
and build. I'd be much more interested in any of those before a 'conventional' 24/2, 55/1.4, 85/1.4 or 100/2.8 Macro,
in part because of the diminutive size of the Limited designs and in part because they are distinct and unique.
05-12-2015, 08:25 PM   #45
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Assuming anything... makes us into donkeys.

But since we're playing that game my thought is updated to hd coatings, wr, rounded blades, nothing else.
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