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06-11-2008, 10:29 AM   #1
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Macro options..

Hello,

I wish to take odonates (dragonflies n damselflies) closeups..

I need some advice regarding macro options..

I will start with what I have- k10D+kit lens (52mm filter) , FA50/1.4 (49mm filter ), vivitar 2x TC, 25mm extension tube n a 300/4 (77mm filter)..

PROBLEMS

Now, I'm happy wid d macro capabilities of d kit lens, but want more closeup..

using extension tube on 50/1.4 , workin distance (max to min distance) is very low..

using 2x TC on 50/1.4 helps, but dat eguals macro of d kit lens

using extension tube on 300/4 gives ample workin distance, but d magnification isnt great + it needs tripod n d lens doesnt have a tripod collar..

POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS-

1. closeup filters- I v heard they r cheap n double element r good..I wish to know whether they'll give me ample working distance..how much will be d working distance on each of my lenses?

2. if after some months, i buy DA 50-200 n attach good closeup filters to it, will it compete wid d macro of the Sigma/tamron 70-300 at 200mm?? Is DA50-200mm better than sigma/tamron lens image quality wise other than d macro function n d extra 100mm..(i have a 300/4 so wont miss 300mm)...In dat case i can buy closeup lenses for d kit lens right now coz i can use them later on 50-200 which too accepts 52mm filters..how r d Nikon 6T n canon 500D closeup filters?

3. I am getting a Kalimar 70mm Macro lens wid k1000 + Pentax AF 15 flash at whatever price I decide...I cudnt get much info about d lens from its owner, will meet him after 2-3 days...i googled it to find only 28/35- 70mm zoom macro lenses of kalimar..so may be its a zoom lens-(d owner cant read properly)..does anybody have any experiance wid d lens? Is it good? should I buy it? what price should I pay him?- I respect d owner a lot n dont want to fool him..(nor get fooled!)..

4. Any other option????

06-11-2008, 10:43 AM   #2
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you have lots of options but consider the following

1:1 with a macro lens is achieved at a distance of 2x focal length from front element.

If you want working distance you really want longer macro lenses. the drawback is $$$

The number of dollar signs above is the number of zeros behind the first digit you could expect to pay for a 180 or 200mm macro lens.

I personally have decided on an SMC-M 100mm F4 plus a set of extension tubes.

Working distance at 1:1 is 200mm. (8 inches) and not too bad.

note also the 300mm F4 can be adapted for a tripod mount, but you may need to make it yourself, (I did), and note also that even with a set of tubes stacked you only get about 1:4 not 1:1

If you want big magnification, 1:1 and a large working distance, try something like a spotting scope. I have a celestron C90 1000mm F11 which can focus to 1 meter, hence give very high magnification, BUT, it has no DOF control and has out of focus donuts as opposed to points of light.
06-11-2008, 11:11 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote

note also the 300mm F4 can be adapted for a tripod mount, but you may need to make it yourself, (I did), and note also that even with a set of tubes stacked you only get about 1:4 not 1:1


I have seen ur thread about d 300/4..v have d same lens!! gr8 lens..wish anyone wud tel how does it compare wid d new DA300/4..just for fun! for macro, our 300/4 is out of option..

QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
I personally have decided on an SMC-M 100mm F4 plus a set of extension tubes


the SAD part is that I chose 300/4 INSTEAD of SMC-M 100/4 Macro..choice was logical n i cud get closer to d subject wid extension tube + 2x TC on 50/1.4 (FA 50/1.4 is capable of EVERYTHING!) Problem is not with d magnification or the minimum working distance, but d range of working distance dat is maximum focusing distance minus d minimum focussing distance..

Reason, when i 1st spot a dragonfly, I need to shoot it 4 documentation..then 4 d sake of photography..now, sumtimes, dragonflies just dont let u come closer..so d macro setup shld b abl to focus d fly from atleast 1meter distance to whichever distance it will allow me..(they do allow me, sumtimes 2 even touch them..) I dont want to change my lens during this procedure..hence d confusion..


Any idea about d Kalimar?? I'm pretty excited abt it..
06-11-2008, 11:21 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by hrishi Quote
I have seen ur thread about d 300/4..v have d same lens!! gr8 lens..wish anyone wud tel how does it compare wid d new DA300/4..just for fun! for macro, our 300/4 is out of option..
I won't be selling the 300/4 any time soon just to get the new one. I use it with the 1.7x AF TC to get 500mm, that is what I really want.
QuoteQuote:
the SAD part is that I chose 300/4 INSTEAD of SMC-M 100/4 Macro..choice was logical n i cud get closer to d subject wid extension tube + 2x TC on 50/1.4 (FA 50/1.4 is capable of EVERYTHING!) Problem is not with d magnification or the minimum working distance, but d range of working distance dat is maximum focusing distance minus d minimum focussing distance..
don't give up on teh 300, just go out and look for a different option, you can still use both, just for different purposes
QuoteQuote:
Reason, when i 1st spot a dragonfly, I need to shoot it 4 documentation..then 4 d sake of photography..now, sumtimes, dragonflies just dont let u come closer..so d macro setup shld b abl to focus d fly from atleast 1meter distance to whichever distance it will allow me..(they do allow me, sumtimes 2 even touch them..) I dont want to change my lens during this procedure..hence d confusion..
Any idea about d Kalimar?? I'm pretty excited abt it..
No idea about Kalimar, but why not use any number of good zooms that can do 1:4 or something like that. It sounds like you need, for identification purposes to be able to focus very quickly, and get enough detail for identification, that to me suggests an AF lens, very flexible. Maybe a middle zoom like a tamron 28-75 f2.8. I have one of these, and it can do 1:2.8 and is an excellent lens for general work

06-11-2008, 11:46 AM   #5
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I have used 300/4 wid the 2xTC n the shots were too soft..but d same TC doesnt affect FA50/1.4..another question abt 300/4- widout makin a tripod mount, if i use a monopod n mount k10D on it+ hold d lens wid hand, will it gain me atleast a single stop?

For Identification purpose, i believe kit lens is decent..actually it takes me very close 2 my subject..i am wonderin if i buy a closeup filter for d kit lens..actually i'm confused abt dat..whether 2 buy a closeup filter for d kit lens (52mm) or for d FA 50/1.4 (49mm) ..I need a dedicated macro, but what i thought, adding d 2x tc on 50/1.4 will make it 100/2.8 actually 150/2.8 + it will not change d range of workin distance..so if i add a closeup filter to it, i'll b abl 2 get even closer..but in what way will it affect my working distance range?

An autofocus lens wud be fine, but now i'm used to focus manually (though the kitlens is spoiling me!) so AF wont be an issue..n if at all i miss a shot due to lack of autofocus, BIG DEAL..I just forget that the oppurtunity was there..as simple as that !
06-11-2008, 12:01 PM   #6
Igilligan
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the da50-200 vs the tam 70-300

I think it all depends on what exactly about the dragon fly you are going to be shooting. If you are looking for head shots a 180 macro is a great but expensive option.

The DA 50-200 with a 2 diopter macro adaptor is a very good option but the 70-300 tamron is a decent macro-esque lens too. If you are shooting full body shots of the dragonflys then the either one will work. The 70-300 is cheaper and already has the macro function on it so it will be the easiest.

Here is a quick dragonfly shot with the tamron. handheld at 300mm...
Not a very good one but...



But the DA 50-200 can get good results too...


good luck...
06-11-2008, 07:16 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
I think it all depends on what exactly about the dragon fly you are going to be shooting. If you are looking for head shots a 180 macro is a great but expensive option.


The DA 50-200 with a 2 diopter macro adaptor is a very good option but the 70-300 tamron is a decent macro-esque lens too. If you are shooting full body shots of the dragonflys then the either one will work. The 70-300 is cheaper and already has the macro function on it so it will be the easiest.

good luck...

So u see I have 4 options-

1. Dedicated macro is good n exactly what i need..but that is not possible atleast for few months..

2. Use 49mm closeup filters on FA 50/1.4 + 2x TC..so it will be sumwhat like a 150mm macro lens (on 35mm sensor)

Now how much exactly will be the magnification n the range of working distance??

3. buy 52mm closeup filter right now n use it on the kit lens and then later on buy DA 50-200mm which will accept the same 52mm filter...

4. Buy 70-300mm zooms from sigma, tamron..but they have 58mm filter n 62mm filter..in this case, i cant buy anything at the moment..

All i'm confused about is the filter size...Does canon 500D, nikon 6T etc accept variable filter sizes- from 49mm to 62mm? (ideally from 49mm to 77mm so I can use 300/4..but that will be expensive if available I guess..)
06-11-2008, 08:44 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
But the DA 50-200 can get good results too...


good luck...
what did you use here to get that magnification? would like to try it also...

06-11-2008, 10:29 PM   #9
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I tried searching on the working distance with the closeup lens, but still little confused about it- John Shaw says working distance with a +1 diopter lens will be 1meter for lenses of all focal lenghts with focus at infinity...agreed...but can i use the closeup lens to focus something which is say 10 feet away from me? Or i'll have to remove it n then shoot? Does it working/ focussing range from infinity (infinite distance from d subject) to its minimum focusing distance(1 meter or whatever it is..)
06-12-2008, 12:15 AM   #10
Igilligan
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Hi praxxis

QuoteOriginally posted by praxxis Quote
what did you use here to get that magnification? would like to try it also...
Actually that is just a tight crop of a 200mm shot from the DA 50-200. It was handheld, probably near the min focus distance of the lens. No macro adaptors were used.

here is the original
Attachment 13806

I do use the DA 50-200 with my Sony 3358 macro close up and with my Raynox 250 also for much closer macro-ish shots.
They are not as great as my Vivitar 105 but they were what I used until I got the Series 1 dedicated macro.
06-12-2008, 12:32 AM   #11
Igilligan
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hrishi

QuoteOriginally posted by hrishi Quote
I tried searching on the working distance with the closeup lens, but still little confused about it- John Shaw says working distance with a +1 diopter lens will be 1meter for lenses of all focal lenghts with focus at infinity...agreed...but can i use the closeup lens to focus something which is say 10 feet away from me? Or i'll have to remove it n then shoot? Does it working/ focussing range from infinity (infinite distance from d subject) to its minimum focusing distance(1 meter or whatever it is..)

If you are using a macro adaptor lens on a regular prime or zoom, you will have to take the adaptor lens off to shoot at something 10ft away. They really limit you to close up shooting.
The Raynox 250 and 150 are clip-on macro lenses that work on different lens thread sizes.
something like the canon 250 or 500 is threaded so you would need to get a step-up/down adaptor to fit it to your lens filter size if different from the canon macros.
06-12-2008, 06:06 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
Actually that is just a tight crop of a 200mm shot from the DA 50-200. It was handheld, probably near the min focus distance of the lens. No macro adaptors were used.

here is the original
Attachment 13806

I do use the DA 50-200 with my Sony 3358 macro close up and with my Raynox 250 also for much closer macro-ish shots.
They are not as great as my Vivitar 105 but they were what I used until I got the Series 1 dedicated macro.
i thought you used an extension tube or a TC... good thing that you included here the original image and i saw from my firefox exif plugin that you indeed shot it at 200mm...

what i want to do if given the time and some favorable subjects is to try the 50-200 with my extension tube (manual though) and hopefully get some good results
06-14-2008, 07:04 PM   #13
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Hey, finally decided to buy a Canon 500D for my 300/4..The 300/4 + 25mm extension tube+ Canon 500D will give me great magnification AND, I can use the same Canon 500D on the 70-200/2.8 lens which I plan to buy after few years which shares the same 77mm filter thread with the 300/4..

till then, the kit lens macro is doin well..

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