Vintage-A vs vintage-K

Jinnax · 08-30-2015, 08:22 AM

Originally posted by fwcetus

A stroll down Memory Lane...

...and a very nice anecdotal survey of over 20 lenses - thanks!

The list also highlights a major difference I'm noting with the APS-C world from FF film: A lot of choice at 50mm and above, and *very* little below. And when you consider that the 50mm focal length under APS-C is now light-telephoto - well, it's a problem finding normal and wide-angle lenses that don't cost an arm and a leg. Given how many telephoto lenses there are, it sure would be nice having a wide angle to choose from for every 2mm above 10. That said, I've only been on the hunt for fine old Pentax glass for a few weeks and I'm very encouraged that I'll find whatever I need. Now, what to do with all those film cameras attach to the back of them....

Originally posted by fwcetus

I was thinking about that question, and I have never been able to make such a "pecking order" that was a "solid" generality (i.e., one that is nearly all true). Of course, a big problem of such an attempt is that it is quite subjective. But, anyhoo, this is the best I can come up with for now (and YMMV):

I think my question/characterization of "pecking order" was too broad in that I didn't specify optically or build quality for my definition of "better" (or at least ≥ ), but a concensus is emerging from this thread that *some* 50mm and 28mm A-lenses were cheaply buil by substituting plastic for steel and that it has consequences like the A-ring refusing to turn any more.

Originally posted by fwcetus

Then, while K and M lenses function essentially the same as each other, the A lenses do have Ka functionality (duh!), which, for some of us, is a great convenience and perhaps sometimes even a significant advantage. [For me, for example, "Back in Ye Olde Film Days of Yore", it mattered little whether a lens had Ka functionality or not -- I used M or AV exposure nearly all the time anyway. However, thanks to the current "crippled K-mount" DSLRs, it does now make a significant difference (to me), even though I still own some "pre-Ka" gems.] So, after rambling along with all of the above, I would state that the resulting "pecking order", for ~me~, taking all factors into consideration, might be "A ≥ K ≥ M" (or "A >= K >= M" in non-unicode).

For creative reasons, I use only manual or aperture-priority shooting modes and it seems to me that all the A's are at least the optical equivalent of their M counterparts *and* offer the green A on the aperture ring. Most answers in this thread also seem to be indicating a preference for the optical qualities (bokeh, sharpness) of the old Ks despite advancements in coatings. That's interesting to me because I recently had a gigantic and ugly lens flare come from my M50mmF2. The worst flare I ever saw from film was JJ Abrams-style multicoloured hexagons, which can be attractive. But for as to why K > A/M,

Originally posted by glasbak

The more compact optical designs of the M series generally decreased the border and edge performance, but on APS-C that falls outside the sensor. When the full frame will come, I expect that M lenses will loose popularity in relation to the K (and similar Takumars).

I think that's true. I noticed vignetting with my M28mm F2 on film if it had so much as a small hood on. I'm not seeing that at all with APS-C; I can even add a polarizer, too. But when FF comes? Well, too bad for them - I'm with those in another thread hoping to take advantage of a flood of lightly used D/DA lenses when FF comes. I waited out the entire DSLR CCD sensor period, and I've think I've got enough time left to see what becomes of APS-C. Bring on the low-cost A's and M's, maybe like Pokemon I can catch them ALL!

pleo · 09-29-2015, 06:04 AM

@ K 1.8/55 vs A 1.7/50
I had both.
Now only the A - why?

Yes: build quality of the K-series is better. A-series is not bad at all but the K is better. It's different!

The K has better center sharpness but the A better sharpness throughout the picture field.
Sharpness increases fast with the A: 2.8 or 3.5 is enough. With the K you need to stop down at least 1 f-stop to get similar sharpness/results.

Colour:
They are different!
The K more like a painting, the A more 'clean'.

PF:
The A is better due to better/improved coating.

Which one to buy?
As an investment I'll take the K - just for sentimental reasons of the handling.
For practical use only I'll take the A.

Jinnax · 10-05-2015, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by pleo

Which one to buy? As an investment I'll take the K - just for sentimental reasons of the handling. For practical use only I'll take the A.

Thanks, pleo, since the start of the thread I'm coming to the same conclusion. I have to say, though, that I don't see the advantage of "auto" (A setting) aperture on the -A lenses. Spin a ring on the lens or a thumbwheel on the camera, all the same to me.

I also prefer lenses to be sharp corner-to-corner at f2.8 vs centre-sharp at F1.8.

This story ends as the lens seller (not Mktplace) was a loony and no sale happened. There seem to be lots of A/1.7's out there, though.

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08-30-2015, 08:22 AM	#46
Jinnax New Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: The Hammer Posts: 23 Original Poster	Originally posted by fwcetus A stroll down Memory Lane... ...and a very nice anecdotal survey of over 20 lenses - thanks! The list also highlights a major difference I'm noting with the APS-C world from FF film: A lot of choice at 50mm and above, and very little below. And when you consider that the 50mm focal length under APS-C is now light-telephoto - well, it's a problem finding normal and wide-angle lenses that don't cost an arm and a leg. Given how many telephoto lenses there are, it sure would be nice having a wide angle to choose from for every 2mm above 10. That said, I've only been on the hunt for fine old Pentax glass for a few weeks and I'm very encouraged that I'll find whatever I need. Now, what to do with all those film cameras attach to the back of them.... Originally posted by fwcetus I was thinking about that question, and I have never been able to make such a "pecking order" that was a "solid" generality (i.e., one that is nearly all true). Of course, a big problem of such an attempt is that it is quite subjective. But, anyhoo, this is the best I can come up with for now (and YMMV): I think my question/characterization of "pecking order" was too broad in that I didn't specify optically or build quality for my definition of "better" (or at least ≥ ), but a concensus is emerging from this thread that some 50mm and 28mm A-lenses were cheaply buil by substituting plastic for steel and that it has consequences like the A-ring refusing to turn any more. Originally posted by fwcetus Then, while K and M lenses function essentially the same as each other, the A lenses do have Ka functionality (duh!), which, for some of us, is a great convenience and perhaps sometimes even a significant advantage. [For me, for example, "Back in Ye Olde Film Days of Yore", it mattered little whether a lens had Ka functionality or not -- I used M or AV exposure nearly all the time anyway. However, thanks to the current "crippled K-mount" DSLRs, it does now make a significant difference (to me), even though I still own some "pre-Ka" gems.] So, after rambling along with all of the above, I would state that the resulting "pecking order", for ~me~, taking all factors into consideration, might be "A ≥ K ≥ M" (or "A >= K >= M" in non-unicode). For creative reasons, I use only manual or aperture-priority shooting modes and it seems to me that all the A's are at least the optical equivalent of their M counterparts and offer the green A on the aperture ring. Most answers in this thread also seem to be indicating a preference for the optical qualities (bokeh, sharpness) of the old Ks despite advancements in coatings. That's interesting to me because I recently had a gigantic and ugly lens flare come from my M50mmF2. The worst flare I ever saw from film was JJ Abrams-style multicoloured hexagons, which can be attractive. But for as to why K > A/M, Originally posted by glasbak The more compact optical designs of the M series generally decreased the border and edge performance, but on APS-C that falls outside the sensor. When the full frame will come, I expect that M lenses will loose popularity in relation to the K (and similar Takumars). I think that's true. I noticed vignetting with my M28mm F2 on film if it had so much as a small hood on. I'm not seeing that at all with APS-C; I can even add a polarizer, too. But when FF comes? Well, too bad for them - I'm with those in another thread hoping to take advantage of a flood of lightly used D/DA lenses when FF comes. I waited out the entire DSLR CCD sensor period, and I've think I've got enough time left to see what becomes of APS-C. Bring on the low-cost A's and M's, maybe like Pokemon I can catch them ALL!

09-29-2015, 06:04 AM	#47
pleo Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hamburg Posts: 116	@ K 1.8/55 vs A 1.7/50 I had both. Now only the A - why? Yes: build quality of the K-series is better. A-series is not bad at all but the K is better. It's different! The K has better center sharpness but the A better sharpness throughout the picture field. Sharpness increases fast with the A: 2.8 or 3.5 is enough. With the K you need to stop down at least 1 f-stop to get similar sharpness/results. Colour: They are different! The K more like a painting, the A more 'clean'. PF: The A is better due to better/improved coating. Which one to buy? As an investment I'll take the K - just for sentimental reasons of the handling. For practical use only I'll take the A.

10-05-2015, 04:58 PM	#48
Jinnax New Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: The Hammer Posts: 23 Original Poster	Originally posted by pleo Which one to buy? As an investment I'll take the K - just for sentimental reasons of the handling. For practical use only I'll take the A. Thanks, pleo, since the start of the thread I'm coming to the same conclusion. I have to say, though, that I don't see the advantage of "auto" (A setting) aperture on the -A lenses. Spin a ring on the lens or a thumbwheel on the camera, all the same to me. I also prefer lenses to be sharp corner-to-corner at f2.8 vs centre-sharp at F1.8. This story ends as the lens seller (not Mktplace) was a loony and no sale happened. There seem to be lots of A/1.7's out there, though.