Rokinon 85/1.4 tips

**Another dyemention** · 09-23-2015, 12:55 PM

So I just received my 85/1.4 and was wondering if anyone had any tips on using a lens like this with such a short DOF. Although I've only tried it about half an hour, I consistently focus in from of my intended subject. Even in live view with the zoom. The focus peaking will look dead on but the part that is in focus is always in front. I have to say so far I love this lens and I'm determined to get it right so any tips would be appreciated.
Thanks

**grahame** · 09-23-2015, 01:12 PM

I found using live view is a little tricky with this lens, such a shallow DOV. Focusing per se might be fine, but you might have moved slightly from the time focusing is achieved and shutter is released. try live view and focus peeking on tripod, you might narrow down the issue.
install a focus screen for MF helps the most. Camera is much more stable on my forehead, than on arm distance.

**UncleVanya** · 09-23-2015, 01:17 PM - **1 Like**

Another reason Live View may fool you is that in recent tests I have done and heard about it is clear that LiveView stops down the lens a bit. My tests indicate f/4 is where it stops down which would give much more depth of field than you actually have and fool the focus sensors a bit. My experimentation with the Pentax A* 85 f/1.4 before I sold it showed me that either LiveView nor focus confirmation worked 100% of the time. I found that using burst mode and moving the focus slightly during shooting at adequate shutter speeds gave me insurance (like bracketing the exposure). Many people told me that a better focus screen would help - I never tried that.

stillshot2 · 09-23-2015, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by UncleVanya

LiveView stops down the lens a bit.

How is this possible with a manual lens that has a manual aperture ring?

**Another dyemention** · 09-23-2015, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by grahame

I found using live view is a little tricky with this lens, such a shallow DOV. Focusing per se might be fine, but you might have moved slightly from the time focusing is achieved and shutter is released. try live view and focus peeking on tripod, you might narrow down the issue.
install a focus screen for MF helps the most. Camera is much more stable on my forehead, than on arm distance.

I will give that a try. And the lens is in excellent condition btw. Thanks and thank you again for the fast shipping.

---------- Post added 09-23-15 at 01:25 PM ----------

Originally posted by UncleVanya

Another reason Live View may fool you is that in recent tests I have done and heard about it is clear that LiveView stops down the lens a bit. My tests indicate f/4 is where it stops down which would give much more depth of field than you actually have and fool the focus sensors a bit. My experimentation with the Pentax A* 85 f/1.4 before I sold it showed me that either LiveView nor focus confirmation worked 100% of the time. I found that using burst mode and moving the focus slightly during shooting at adequate shutter speeds gave me insurance (like bracketing the exposure). Many people told me that a better focus screen would help - I never tried that.

I will give this a shot too. I'm going to be at a music festival this weekend so I have plenty of time and plenty of subjects to practice on.

**UncleVanya** · 09-23-2015, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by stillshot2

How is this possible with a manual lens that has a manual aperture ring?

My A* wasn't manual aperture! But I thought that the Samyang/Rokinison was not either. I thought it was A style. Since it isn't I have no idea.

**arv** · 09-23-2015, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by stillshot2

How is this possible with a manual lens that has a manual aperture ring?

That's happens when A setting is used; if you set aperture manually using aperture ring, live view doesn't stop down.
This is most annoying with DA lenses (no aperture ring).

A.

**Another dyemention** · 09-23-2015, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by UncleVanya

My A* wasn't manual aperture! But I thought that the Samyang/Rokinison was not either. I thought it was A style. Since it isn't I have no idea.

I can turn it to A and put it in Av mode if that helps.

hcc · 09-23-2015, 03:57 PM - **1 Like**

Consider catch-in-focus (CIF). Personally I use another technique (se below), but CIF does work well for many Pentaxians.

My approach is different because I shoot action shots (with a CZ85mm f1.4). I pre-focus the lens, by setting the distance on the lens focus ring (1). Then I fine-tune by hand and I shoot in Hi-continuous mode a sequence of 4-5 shots. I typically get at least 1 good shot.

(1) This step might require an initial calibration/check.

My 5 cents.

Na Horuk · 09-23-2015, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by UncleVanya

Another reason Live View may fool you is that in recent tests I have done and heard about it is clear that LiveView stops down the lens a bit.

Yes, this has been observed before. What you need to do is press the digital zoom button (Ok or Info, I think. Depends on model), which will open the aperture wide. You will see this change on the screen, as the bokeh and DoF will change. This only works for lenses that have A on aperture ring. Other lenses are held wide open constantly in live view (except fully manual ones like Preset, where the aperture is whatever you select by hand). I think the cameras stop down the aperture for two reasons - to prevent overheating of the sensor or of too much light entering at once and frying the camera (my K-01 adjusts aperture depending where you point it); and to allow some DoF for composition (using an f1.4 or a 300mm f4 or a macro lens wide open would mean almost everything would be very blurry, so you couldn't really frame/compose)

Anyway, with Samyang 85mm you can try live view with focus peaking and digital zoom. Or CiF (catch in focus, aka focus trapping). Cif can be combined with burst mode, and then just delete the OoF shots. But you need to make sure you don't blur the photos with handshake. If you are not shooting wide open, you can try zone focusing (or even hyperfocal), but in my experience, this is not as useful with high res digital cameras, as it was with certain types of film
It takes practice, and the lens is not easy to focus, as far as I have heard. It might even require some adjustment/calibration for the distance scales to give the correct values.
Another thing you can try is buying a viewfinder loupe (original Pentax magnifier, or something like the Seagull brand viewfinder magnifiers), but note that these can cut off some viewfinder information. The second thing you can do with a DSLR is buy a focusing screen. KatzEye is popular and good. Then you have some others like focusing screens com, jin finance, and a bunch of other nameless ones you can buy online. You can even install it yourself, but beware, as you can easily ruin one by touching it too much. And you need to spend some time selecting the shims to calibrate it properly, or it will show you different focus from the actual focus.

Main problem is that essentially, modern DSLR cameras are made for AF, not MF. They have small viewfinder, focusing screen made for relatively slow lenses, AF made for relatively slow lenses (f2.8, f4).. gone are the days of massive viewfinders and split prism focusing screens. Even modern AF lenses have a short focusing throw, with nearly useless distance scales, without proper DoF scales..

**Another dyemention** · 09-23-2015, 04:21 PM

I thought about CIF but wasn't sure if it would be accurate enough at 1.4. I'll have to try it this weekend. I knew there would be a learning curve shooting that wide open so I'm willing to try anything. Not sure how it will go as most of the people will be dancing or hula hooping. At least it should be sunny enough to stop down a bit if I'm not having luck. The evening and night time may pose a problem but I'll be bringing my 35/2.4 and a flash. Should be ok of I set the hyper focal distance and shoot away. I will be by the stage so there may be enough ambient light to get a decent lock on the focus though.

---------- Post added 09-23-15 at 04:24 PM ----------

And I will add that, not surprisingly, the problem of missing focus goes away when stopped down to 1.8 or 2. It's just at 1.4 I miss quite a bit. But I will try taking multiple shots. Bound to get one good one at least.

ScooterMaxi Jim · 09-23-2015, 06:26 PM

Some misconceptions are taking flight in this thread.

The Samyang/Rokinon/etc. 85mm functions the same as any other A lens. In fact, all Samyang-sourced lenses are A mount, and will work the same as the Pentax versions.

Depending on the camera model, mode, light available, fast lenses will stop down to around f/4 in live view to protect the sensor from excessive light that could damage the sensor. If you enable stop down (or stop open in situations when the lens starts at f/4) you can get the proper f-stop setting for purposes of focusing precisely. The Samyang 85mm lens has considerable focus shift at the open settings (most 85mm f/1.4s share this problem to a varying extent).

If you use the stop-down function and read the focus peaking properly, you will nail the focus every time. No matter the focusing aid used, or the screen in place, focus peaking in live view provides far superior focusing capability over OVF on the 85 f/1.4s (or any f/1.4 for that matter). User error via hand holding, or shifting composition after achieving center focus will yield poor results due to shallow DoF, field curvature, etc. when a lens is opened beyond f/2. Live view without repositioning (use a tripod) and avoiding recomposing are the best solutions.

rawr · 09-23-2015, 07:00 PM

Originally posted by ScooterMaxi Jim

focus peaking in live view provides far superior focusing capability over OVF on the 85 f/1.4s (or any f/1.4 for that matter).

Except when shooting very dark scenes, when the LV display degrades and the focus peaking halo loses visibility.

Then it's best to just focus normally with the optical viewfinder, but target whatever contrasty edge you can find in the scene, watch the green hexagon, and focus bracket a bit, as hcc has done.

Curl - Ben Jenkins on Flickr
K-5 , ƒ/2.0, 85.0 mm, 1/160, ISO 6400

**UncleVanya** · 09-23-2015, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by ScooterMaxi Jim

Some misconceptions are taking flight in this thread.

Depending on the camera model, mode, light available, fast lenses will stop down to around f/4 in live view to protect the sensor from excessive light that could damage the sensor. If you enable stop down (or stop open in situations when the lens starts at f/4) you can get the proper f-stop setting for purposes of focusing precisely. The Samyang 85mm lens has considerable focus shift at the open settings (most 85mm f/1.4s share this problem to a varying extent).

I thought so too. I had seen consistent f/4 results in previous tests. Today I mounted the A 50 f/2 and it was wide open. ON A. Then I took a bright LED flashlight - shined it in the front element and watched the lens stop down to f/5.6 or so and as I brought the flashlight closer to the center of the lens - it stopped down farther. I was shocked since I had not seen this from my DA 18-135 or DA 40. I will retest with this light later.

Originally posted by ScooterMaxi Jim

If you use the stop-down function and read the focus peaking properly, you will nail the focus every time. No matter the focusing aid used, or the screen in place, focus peaking in live view provides far superior focusing capability over OVF on the 85 f/1.4s (or any f/1.4 for that matter). User error via hand holding, or shifting composition after achieving center focus will yield poor results due to shallow DoF, field curvature, etc. when a lens is opened beyond f/2. Live view without repositioning (use a tripod) and avoiding recomposing are the best solutions.

I did not find consistently that this was the case with my A* 85 f/1.4 I had inconsistent results with LiveView and with CIF and with simple focus confirmation. Nothing was totally reliable. I don't think I misread the focus peaking - I just don't think it is that accurate for the DOF that an 85 f/1.4 gets wide open - particularly if it is stopping down during focusing.

I did have slightly better results using these methods first and then adding the high speed burst shooting while slightly swaying back and forth to change focus.

**grahame** · 09-23-2015, 09:14 PM

I was not a fan on focus peeking on pentax's camera. Sony's Emount cameras are better, at least allow selecting color and sensitivity. But still I prefer MF assistant. Better, to combine the focus peeking with MF assistant, showing enlarged image with highlighting at the edges are most helpful.

But all these work best when camera is on tripod. I noticed often my arm or body moved after I decided focus was accurate on live view screen and before shutter was clicked.

09-23-2015, 12:55 PM	#1
Another dyemention Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 432	Rokinon 85/1.4 tips So I just received my 85/1.4 and was wondering if anyone had any tips on using a lens like this with such a short DOF. Although I've only tried it about half an hour, I consistently focus in from of my intended subject. Even in live view with the zoom. The focus peaking will look dead on but the part that is in focus is always in front. I have to say so far I love this lens and I'm determined to get it right so any tips would be appreciated. Thanks

09-23-2015, 04:19 PM	#10
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Originally posted by UncleVanya Another reason Live View may fool you is that in recent tests I have done and heard about it is clear that LiveView stops down the lens a bit. Yes, this has been observed before. What you need to do is press the digital zoom button (Ok or Info, I think. Depends on model), which will open the aperture wide. You will see this change on the screen, as the bokeh and DoF will change. This only works for lenses that have A on aperture ring. Other lenses are held wide open constantly in live view (except fully manual ones like Preset, where the aperture is whatever you select by hand). I think the cameras stop down the aperture for two reasons - to prevent overheating of the sensor or of too much light entering at once and frying the camera (my K-01 adjusts aperture depending where you point it); and to allow some DoF for composition (using an f1.4 or a 300mm f4 or a macro lens wide open would mean almost everything would be very blurry, so you couldn't really frame/compose) Anyway, with Samyang 85mm you can try live view with focus peaking and digital zoom. Or CiF (catch in focus, aka focus trapping). Cif can be combined with burst mode, and then just delete the OoF shots. But you need to make sure you don't blur the photos with handshake. If you are not shooting wide open, you can try zone focusing (or even hyperfocal), but in my experience, this is not as useful with high res digital cameras, as it was with certain types of film It takes practice, and the lens is not easy to focus, as far as I have heard. It might even require some adjustment/calibration for the distance scales to give the correct values. Another thing you can try is buying a viewfinder loupe (original Pentax magnifier, or something like the Seagull brand viewfinder magnifiers), but note that these can cut off some viewfinder information. The second thing you can do with a DSLR is buy a focusing screen. KatzEye is popular and good. Then you have some others like focusing screens com, jin finance, and a bunch of other nameless ones you can buy online. You can even install it yourself, but beware, as you can easily ruin one by touching it too much. And you need to spend some time selecting the shims to calibrate it properly, or it will show you different focus from the actual focus. Main problem is that essentially, modern DSLR cameras are made for AF, not MF. They have small viewfinder, focusing screen made for relatively slow lenses, AF made for relatively slow lenses (f2.8, f4).. gone are the days of massive viewfinders and split prism focusing screens. Even modern AF lenses have a short focusing throw, with nearly useless distance scales, without proper DoF scales.. Last edited by Na Horuk; 09-23-2015 at 04:28 PM.

09-23-2015, 07:00 PM	#13
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by ScooterMaxi Jim focus peaking in live view provides far superior focusing capability over OVF on the 85 f/1.4s (or any f/1.4 for that matter). Except when shooting very dark scenes, when the LV display degrades and the focus peaking halo loses visibility. Then it's best to just focus normally with the optical viewfinder, but target whatever contrasty edge you can find in the scene, watch the green hexagon, and focus bracket a bit, as hcc has done. Curl - Ben Jenkins on Flickr K-5 , ƒ/2.0, 85.0 mm, 1/160, ISO 6400 Last edited by rawr; 09-23-2015 at 07:05 PM.

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09-23-2015, 01:12 PM	#2
grahame Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,041	I found using live view is a little tricky with this lens, such a shallow DOV. Focusing per se might be fine, but you might have moved slightly from the time focusing is achieved and shutter is released. try live view and focus peeking on tripod, you might narrow down the issue. install a focus screen for MF helps the most. Camera is much more stable on my forehead, than on arm distance.

09-23-2015, 01:17 PM - 1 Like	#3
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,401	Another reason Live View may fool you is that in recent tests I have done and heard about it is clear that LiveView stops down the lens a bit. My tests indicate f/4 is where it stops down which would give much more depth of field than you actually have and fool the focus sensors a bit. My experimentation with the Pentax A* 85 f/1.4 before I sold it showed me that either LiveView nor focus confirmation worked 100% of the time. I found that using burst mode and moving the focus slightly during shooting at adequate shutter speeds gave me insurance (like bracketing the exposure). Many people told me that a better focus screen would help - I never tried that.

09-23-2015, 01:22 PM	#4
stillshot2 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Phoenix, AZ Photos: Albums Posts: 1,070	Originally posted by UncleVanya LiveView stops down the lens a bit. How is this possible with a manual lens that has a manual aperture ring?

09-23-2015, 01:24 PM	#5
Another dyemention Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 432 Original Poster	Originally posted by grahame I found using live view is a little tricky with this lens, such a shallow DOV. Focusing per se might be fine, but you might have moved slightly from the time focusing is achieved and shutter is released. try live view and focus peeking on tripod, you might narrow down the issue. install a focus screen for MF helps the most. Camera is much more stable on my forehead, than on arm distance. I will give that a try. And the lens is in excellent condition btw. Thanks and thank you again for the fast shipping. ---------- Post added 09-23-15 at 01:25 PM ---------- Originally posted by UncleVanya Another reason Live View may fool you is that in recent tests I have done and heard about it is clear that LiveView stops down the lens a bit. My tests indicate f/4 is where it stops down which would give much more depth of field than you actually have and fool the focus sensors a bit. My experimentation with the Pentax A* 85 f/1.4 before I sold it showed me that either LiveView nor focus confirmation worked 100% of the time. I found that using burst mode and moving the focus slightly during shooting at adequate shutter speeds gave me insurance (like bracketing the exposure). Many people told me that a better focus screen would help - I never tried that. I will give this a shot too. I'm going to be at a music festival this weekend so I have plenty of time and plenty of subjects to practice on.

09-23-2015, 01:29 PM	#6
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,401	Originally posted by stillshot2 How is this possible with a manual lens that has a manual aperture ring? My A* wasn't manual aperture! But I thought that the Samyang/Rokinison was not either. I thought it was A style. Since it isn't I have no idea.

09-23-2015, 01:36 PM	#7
arv Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 413	Originally posted by stillshot2 How is this possible with a manual lens that has a manual aperture ring? That's happens when A setting is used; if you set aperture manually using aperture ring, live view doesn't stop down. This is most annoying with DA lenses (no aperture ring). A.

09-23-2015, 01:36 PM	#8
Another dyemention Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 432 Original Poster	Originally posted by UncleVanya My A* wasn't manual aperture! But I thought that the Samyang/Rokinison was not either. I thought it was A style. Since it isn't I have no idea. I can turn it to A and put it in Av mode if that helps.

09-23-2015, 03:57 PM - 1 Like	#9
hcc Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,002	Consider catch-in-focus (CIF). Personally I use another technique (se below), but CIF does work well for many Pentaxians. My approach is different because I shoot action shots (with a CZ85mm f1.4). I pre-focus the lens, by setting the distance on the lens focus ring (1). Then I fine-tune by hand and I shoot in Hi-continuous mode a sequence of 4-5 shots. I typically get at least 1 good shot. (1) This step might require an initial calibration/check. My 5 cents.

09-23-2015, 04:21 PM	#11
Another dyemention Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 432 Original Poster	I thought about CIF but wasn't sure if it would be accurate enough at 1.4. I'll have to try it this weekend. I knew there would be a learning curve shooting that wide open so I'm willing to try anything. Not sure how it will go as most of the people will be dancing or hula hooping. At least it should be sunny enough to stop down a bit if I'm not having luck. The evening and night time may pose a problem but I'll be bringing my 35/2.4 and a flash. Should be ok of I set the hyper focal distance and shoot away. I will be by the stage so there may be enough ambient light to get a decent lock on the focus though. ---------- Post added 09-23-15 at 04:24 PM ---------- And I will add that, not surprisingly, the problem of missing focus goes away when stopped down to 1.8 or 2. It's just at 1.4 I miss quite a bit. But I will try taking multiple shots. Bound to get one good one at least.

09-23-2015, 06:26 PM	#12
ScooterMaxi Jim Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,520	Some misconceptions are taking flight in this thread. The Samyang/Rokinon/etc. 85mm functions the same as any other A lens. In fact, all Samyang-sourced lenses are A mount, and will work the same as the Pentax versions. Depending on the camera model, mode, light available, fast lenses will stop down to around f/4 in live view to protect the sensor from excessive light that could damage the sensor. If you enable stop down (or stop open in situations when the lens starts at f/4) you can get the proper f-stop setting for purposes of focusing precisely. The Samyang 85mm lens has considerable focus shift at the open settings (most 85mm f/1.4s share this problem to a varying extent). If you use the stop-down function and read the focus peaking properly, you will nail the focus every time. No matter the focusing aid used, or the screen in place, focus peaking in live view provides far superior focusing capability over OVF on the 85 f/1.4s (or any f/1.4 for that matter). User error via hand holding, or shifting composition after achieving center focus will yield poor results due to shallow DoF, field curvature, etc. when a lens is opened beyond f/2. Live view without repositioning (use a tripod) and avoiding recomposing are the best solutions.

09-23-2015, 08:46 PM	#14
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,401	Originally posted by ScooterMaxi Jim Some misconceptions are taking flight in this thread. Depending on the camera model, mode, light available, fast lenses will stop down to around f/4 in live view to protect the sensor from excessive light that could damage the sensor. If you enable stop down (or stop open in situations when the lens starts at f/4) you can get the proper f-stop setting for purposes of focusing precisely. The Samyang 85mm lens has considerable focus shift at the open settings (most 85mm f/1.4s share this problem to a varying extent). I thought so too. I had seen consistent f/4 results in previous tests. Today I mounted the A 50 f/2 and it was wide open. ON A. Then I took a bright LED flashlight - shined it in the front element and watched the lens stop down to f/5.6 or so and as I brought the flashlight closer to the center of the lens - it stopped down farther. I was shocked since I had not seen this from my DA 18-135 or DA 40. I will retest with this light later. Originally posted by ScooterMaxi Jim If you use the stop-down function and read the focus peaking properly, you will nail the focus every time. No matter the focusing aid used, or the screen in place, focus peaking in live view provides far superior focusing capability over OVF on the 85 f/1.4s (or any f/1.4 for that matter). User error via hand holding, or shifting composition after achieving center focus will yield poor results due to shallow DoF, field curvature, etc. when a lens is opened beyond f/2. Live view without repositioning (use a tripod) and avoiding recomposing are the best solutions. I did not find consistently that this was the case with my A* 85 f/1.4 I had inconsistent results with LiveView and with CIF and with simple focus confirmation. Nothing was totally reliable. I don't think I misread the focus peaking - I just don't think it is that accurate for the DOF that an 85 f/1.4 gets wide open - particularly if it is stopping down during focusing. I did have slightly better results using these methods first and then adding the high speed burst shooting while slightly swaying back and forth to change focus.

09-23-2015, 09:14 PM	#15
grahame Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,041	I was not a fan on focus peeking on pentax's camera. Sony's Emount cameras are better, at least allow selecting color and sensitivity. But still I prefer MF assistant. Better, to combine the focus peeking with MF assistant, showing enlarged image with highlighting at the edges are most helpful. But all these work best when camera is on tripod. I noticed often my arm or body moved after I decided focus was accurate on live view screen and before shutter was clicked.