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09-25-2015, 05:58 AM   #1
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FA Limiteds vs. the new D-FA 24-70 zoom

Has anyone considered the differences in performance between the FA Limited lenses and the upcoming D-FA 24-70mm zoom? Will the zoom be just a little bit behind the primes? I'm hesitant to get too excited about this lens for my own personal collection since the focal range is very similar to the Three Amigos.

09-25-2015, 06:05 AM   #2
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It's a zoom. There will be times (events) when I need this lens, but the Three Amigos (or four if you include my FA*24/2.0, or five if you add the DA*55/1.4) will always rule the roost for sheer joy and ultimate IQ.
09-25-2015, 06:12 AM   #3
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Zooms are convenient but for myself I would want something with a bit more at the telephoto end, like the classic 28-105mm range or beyond. A lens like that plus one prime would be my walk around kit.

However, if the 24-70mm zoom somehow matches the Three Amigos ... well, then the conversation changes!
09-25-2015, 06:23 AM - 1 Like   #4
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Zooms are for convenience, primes are for maximum aperture/performance/small size. This zoom won't change that equation. I prefer primes and so I will probably use my FA 31/DA *55/FA 77/DFA 100 macro WR in a lot of situations, but a 24-70 is certainly about the perfect walk around lens.

09-25-2015, 06:30 AM   #5
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I would not expect the new zoom to match the IQ of the FA primes in all circumstances but as it's been said, you have the versatility of the zoom. A 24-70/2.8 is a lens Pentax absolutely NEEDS in its lineup when the new FF hits the streets if they have any hope of competing against Nikon and Canon. The 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8 lenses are the workhorse lenses of wedding and event photographers. These 2 lenses also will need to be very, very good, matching the IQ of their Canon and Nikon competition.
09-25-2015, 06:49 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by 6BQ5 Quote
I'm hesitant to get too excited about this lens for my own personal collection since the focal range is very similar to the Three Amigos.
well, when i have a FF... , this lens is WR, the three others are not. That alone would make it worthwhile adding to the collection.
09-25-2015, 06:54 AM   #7
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I still like to use my A35-105/3.5 with film cameras. I imagine this new zoom would serve the same uses on an APSc body as well as its traditional application on FF.
09-25-2015, 07:09 AM   #8
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Another zoom vs. prime thread.

GO here, pick your favourite lens, see what you picked.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/302815-35mm-find-prime.html

If the prime isn't your favourite image, get a zoom. Nearly 80% of forum participants did not prefer the prime.

09-25-2015, 07:30 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Another zoom vs. prime thread.

GO here, pick your favourite lens, see what you picked.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/302815-35mm-find-prime.html

If the prime isn't your favourite image, get a zoom. Nearly 80% of forum participants did not prefer the prime.
I would like you to reshoot and have a bunch of images at f2 and see how the results turn out.

An FA 31 will be better at f2.4 than this zoom is at f2.8 in all likelihood. It is fine to say all lenses are equal at f5.6 or f8, but few people always shoot at those apertures. I certainly don't and while my DA *16-50 is really nice at f8, my FA 31 is a whole lot better at f2.8 and f4 for sure.
09-25-2015, 08:07 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Another zoom vs. prime thread.

GO here, pick your favourite lens, see what you picked.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/302815-35mm-find-prime.html

If the prime isn't your favourite image, get a zoom. Nearly 80% of forum participants did not prefer the prime.
Even if all zooms were, in some Bizarro alter reality, optically better than all primes, there is still the nagging
problem of the bulk factor. Save the Pringles cans for your chips; make mine a prime.

Can you create a survey that simulates actual hands-on experience?
09-25-2015, 08:40 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
this lens is WR, the three others are not.

I love primes - absolutely love them. When I want something photographed right, I put a prime on the camera. But exactly how many WR primes do we have in the Pentax lineup right now that aren't bank-breaking DA* types? Just one, the D-FA 100/2.8 WR macro. Everything else is professional grade with a price to match, and even if you had more money than God, all of it is at least short-tele on an APS-C body; there are currently no WR primes at all below 55mm.

Sometimes optics have to take second place to practicality. When the rain is coming down and I absolutely need to be in it taking a picture, and/or when the subjects are shifting distance with rapidity that makes reaching for and changing lenses to suit almost impossible without missing something, I would rather have a slightly second-rate picture than none at all. So until we get some wide angle WR/AW primes, it's zoom or stay home.
09-25-2015, 08:44 AM   #12
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Totally underwhelmed so far with this announcement! Hoping there is a longer zoom to be released like 24-135 or 105. I have a number of FF lenses, the 3 amigos, Sigma 24-135 F2.8, 70-200 and 150-500. There are some deals in Canada at the moment for the Sigma 24-105 (1049 CAD) and 24-70 (1099 CAD) - unless the Pentax 24-70 is great quality I fear it will be over priced.

Tim
09-25-2015, 08:56 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by tvdtvdtvd Quote
Even if all zooms were, in some Bizarro alter reality, optically better than all primes, there is still the nagging
problem of the bulk factor. Save the Pringles cans for your chips; make mine a prime.

Can you create a survey that simulates actual hands-on experience?
Typical, "if you don't like the result, blame the test", behaviour. Can I create a test that re-creates your "actual hands on experience?" No, I can't, because I have no idea what your "hands on experience" is. If you were thinking there is some "hands on experience" that is common to everyone, well, no that doesn't exist, so it would be impossible.

As for tests, I don't get paid for this, I don't do it when people ask me to do it, I do it when it amuses me.

But can you create a survey that recreates your actual hands on experience? Of course you can. Quit waiting for me to do it. If you are going to wait a long time.

I do the best I have with what I have, and I have no idea how good a sample I have for each of the lenses I have, my lenses have been subject to carrying degrees of abuse, etc , etc.. I'm not saying it's the perfect test.

I am saying it's better than the unsupported drivel people carry around in their heads based on ridiculously subjective opinions with absolutely no head to head comparisons of any kind. There are 4 or 5 guys who answered the survey and could tell which image was the prime and were willing to pay for what the prime has to offer. I'm not saying there isn't a difference, there is. I see a clear difference in edge to edge and overall sharpness and resolution. And those would appear to be what makes an image for maybe 7% of the forum if you subtract the random selection value from those who selected the prime. But,the vast majority of voters selected other elements besides resolution. Factors such as contrast, apparent sharpness, as opposed to resolution test sharpness and colour rendition.

After running this test, my clear choice would be the Tamron 17-50, this from viewing all the images taken, not just the one's published. followed by the FA 35-80, the 35-80 strictly for it's colour rendition an apparent contrast.

Nevertheless, that's just me. My issue with prime supporters is not that they don't know what they are talking about. They do. My problem with prime supporters is their aggressive opinion, that their opinion is somehow, the informed opinion and that everyone else with different values are somehow mistaken. My opinion is that different values create different choices, none better than the others. My numbers show that unless you are going to buy really expensive prime lens, of which I don't own any to test, odds are about 10-1, you're going to be happier with a zoom.

My basic advice, cover your entire shooting range with zooms, and buy fast primes in focal lengths where you need low light performance, remains unchanged. Shooting at 5.6 the advantage of primes is completely dependent on the values of the photographer, and the best zooms rival the best primes. The biggest advantage to primes remains you have more choice in sub 2 primes than you do in sub 2 zooms. That's when the size thing really comes into effect. Compare a Sigma 18-35 1.8 to a 31 ltd 1.8. At that level the prime distinction is in the ball park. But walking down the ladder, by the time you get to the Pentax 14mm 2.8, that size advantage is long gone.

In Pentax land the 31, 43, 50, and 77 are the primes worth considering, because of the quality of those lenses. Not necessarily because they are primes. And if you want fast glass those are enough to make the brand worth investing in.
09-25-2015, 10:31 AM - 1 Like   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by 6BQ5 Quote
Has anyone considered the differences in performance between the FA Limited lenses and the upcoming D-FA 24-70mm zoom? Will the zoom be just a little bit behind the primes?
It's impossible to answer this before testing the lens. It will probably be very good, but to what extend?
09-25-2015, 10:44 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Typical, "if you don't like the result, blame the test", behaviour.


I'm not 'blaming the test'. You said, 'If the prime isn't your favourite image, get a zoom.' Your
test is fine, but your conclusion is faulty. There's simply more to consider in a lens than the
final image.

Unquestionably, modern zooms can approach primes in their finished output, just as there are
SUVs that can give a Porsche a good run for its money off the line. That doesn't mean I want
to be burdened with an Escalade attached to my K-3.

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