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11-17-2016, 07:33 AM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The Sigma 150-600mm Sports is large and heavy - larger and heavier than the Contemporary version and, of course, than the Pentax 150-450.
It's also expensive, not as much as the Pentax but not too far either.

Besides, the 300mm f/2.8 might not work very well with that TC

---------- Post added 17-11-16 at 03:58 PM ----------


This is a very difficult question: what is the difference between a full frame lens and a lens which covers the full frame format?
I use a TC with all my current FA lenses. 50 macro, and 50 1.7, Sigma 70, Tamron 90, I think the thread has defined what a full frame standard to telephoto should be. The one issue being the D FA 150-450. Does anyone know of an 50-600 mm FA lens that won't take a TC without vignetting? To me the 150-450 is an anomaly, but I don't own enough FA lenses to make a definitive statement.

And it begs the question, was the 150-450 designed as a DA lens? Anyone seen the patent?

I just can't understand how Pentax could make this so confusing.

D FA 70-200 works with TC.
D FA 10-450 doesn't.

Why do these two telephotos share the same classification? Only Pentax knows.

Honestly, if I'd bought a 150-450, I'd be accusing them of false advertising.

You'd feel the heat from the steam coming out my ears all the way to where you live.


Last edited by normhead; 11-17-2016 at 07:56 AM.
11-17-2016, 08:00 AM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
What was the trade off for making the 150-450 unuseable with a TC... did we get something for it, or did you just mess up?
... the DA 300 is a full frame lens, it's a DA lens that has an image circle big enough to cover the FF circle, but apparently, only if you don't use a TC..
the 150-450 and 300 both work fine with the pentax-f 1.7x t/c.

the problem is with the hd 1.4x which asahiman just explained.
11-17-2016, 08:12 AM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by sculptor666 Quote
the 150-450 and 300 both work fine with the pentax-f 1.7x t/c.

the problem is with the hd 1.4x which asahiman just explained.
The problem is not with the 1.4x TC. The problem is that there is no 1.4 TC for the 150-450, and as everyone else in the world how has released similar lenses that are both longer and seem to have TCs that work with them.. that is the problem.

As for the 1.7 TC, the clutch system on the Pentax DA lenses makes them really hard to use with the 1.7 TC. The best lens for the 1.7 is my Tamron 300, It goes from close focus to infinity with a very small rotation of one finger on the focussing ring and then let the 1.7 finish the focussing. Using the 1.7 on a Pentax quick shift lens is just a pain in the butt. The clutch slips, you have no idea if you're even turning the focussing ring, you seem to have to be turning a certain speed to engage it, which makes fine focus really difficult.

My apologies, but as guy who spends a lot of time shooting small birds, to me this situation is simply unacceptable. Not buying Pentax branded gear because it's too expensive I can live with. Not buying it because it doesn't do what I want, that's not acceptable especially since all the third party brands have dumped them for her long glass. Do they want to be a camera company and compete with Canon and Nikon, or don't they?

Given the type of lens it is, and the current situation, a matching TC should have been released with the 150-450.

Last edited by normhead; 11-17-2016 at 08:24 AM.
11-17-2016, 08:19 AM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
D FA 70-200 works with TC.
D FA 10-450 doesn't.
Wait. Just... wait. You started this because you strongly disagreed with me saying that the D FA 150-450 doesn't "work" with the DA 1.4x RC. Now you're saying the exact same thing.
You were upset at me because I wanted a D FA 1.4x RC compatible with the D FA 150-450 (and we know it can be done), now you're saying that the lack of a D FA 1.4x RC is a problem.
What the...?

11-17-2016, 08:28 AM   #125
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I'm a guy who changes his mind once he understands the situation...

I Just had to put myself in your shoes, and, I was thrown by the fact that you said Pentax didn't have an FF 1.4, for which the DA 1.4 works admirably in most K-1 situations. If you'd started off with "Pentax needs to release a 1.4 that works with the 150-450", we would have been here a lot sooner. Clarity in language my friend. It's a specific case, you made it general.

You argued the specific, I argued the general.

I honestly thought the 150-450 was Pentax' 150-450 was Pentax's answer to 150-600 type lenses. Not only is it shorter, it doesn't take a TC in full frame. So many people who owned a lens of the focal length they liked said to themselves, "I'll just buy a K-1 and with the TC I'll have the same field of view." I know if I'd bought the 150-450, that would be exactly what I'd have been thinking.

This is wrong on so many levels.

I feel your pain bro.

Last edited by normhead; 11-17-2016 at 08:34 AM.
11-17-2016, 08:39 AM   #126
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Yet no apology for being so aggressive about it? No lesson learned?

In a general sense, Pentax doesn't have a D FA 1.4x RC.

In a specific sense, I'd like a D FA 1.4x RC to use with my D FA 150-450 (which is undoubtedly a FF lens) without cropping. FTR, I was aware of the issue before I bought the camera (having tried the combination myself) so there is no pain.

And your statement "it doesn't take a TC in full frame" is deliberate misinformation aka lying; we have proof that it works with other, full frame teleconverters posted on this very topic.
11-17-2016, 08:57 AM   #127
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QuoteQuote:
Yet no apology for being so aggressive about it? No lesson learned?
You really don't get it do you?

You claimed Pentax need an FF 1.4 TC. I argued they already have one, both are true.

If you'd kept your claims to the 150-450 instead of saying Pentax needed an FF TC, we would have been fine. Where's my apology? Next time say what you mean, precisely.

You are way too complicit in this dust up to be demanding an apology from someone else.

And honestly, if you say Pentax needs an FF 1.4 TC again, I'll simply quote this thread, to show most FF lenses work with the 1.4, just not the 150-450. I wouldn't want people to get the impression that Pentax needs an FF 1.4. Only that the 150-450 needs one, since it seems to work with everything else.

And that is the big issue with this TC. All of us who have the current 1.4 who don't own a 150-450 won't be buying it. We'll use what we have. IN all fairness, Pentax should make a 1.4 TC for the 150-450 even if it's at a loss, just to be competitive, just to maintain customer trust. But we all know that's not going to happen.

QuoteQuote:
And your statement "it doesn't take a TC in full frame" is deliberate misinformation aka lying; we have proof that it works with other, full frame teleconverters posted on this very topic.
So now you're calling me a liar, because I don't read 150-450 threads? I've tried to smooth this out dude. News flash, I don't read the threads about lenses I don't own. I barely read the threads about the one's I do. The vast majority of my posts are images. Which is why I can illustrate my posts to show folks exactly what I'm talking about.

But you're just to obstinate to see a peace offering.

I go back to my original point, you distort the truth, intentionally, then when someone corrects you, you start talking about some specific case. Anyone who reads one of your posts better follow the thread and watch for clarifications, plus read all the other threads you've read, because you are so imprecise in your generalizations, no one has a clue what you're talking about. If you're determined to maintain opposite positions fine... that's mine.

But I see where you are coming from, rattling around in that head of yours, it probably seems like yours is some kind of absolutely correct opinion (the only one in the world), and every one else are liars who owe you an apology. It must be tough having to suffer the rest of us fools.

Me I'm just trying to figure out what the hell you are talking about.

You really don't want to get into where my english comprehension skills lie in standard testing. That's not going to work out for you.

Last edited by normhead; 11-17-2016 at 09:29 AM.
11-17-2016, 09:36 AM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
You really don't get it do you?
Oh, but I understand very well.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
You claimed Pentax need an FF 1.4 TC. I argued they already have one, both are true.

If you'd kept your claims to the 150-450 instead of saying Pentax needed an FF TC, we would have been fine. Where's my apology? Next time say what you mean, precisely.

You are way too complicit in this dust up to be demanding an apology from someone else.

And honestly, if you say Pentax needs an FF 1.4 TC again, I'll simply quote this thread, to show most FF lenses work with the 1.4, just not the 150-450. I wouldn't want people to get the impression that Pentax needs an FF 1.4. Only that the 150-450 needs one, since it seems to work with everything else.
You're misleading again, and it's hard to believe you're not doing it on purpose.
On this very topic we talked about the following FF lenses vignetting with the DA 1.4x RC: D FA 150-450, DA* 300mm f/4 and the A 400mm - for the later you offered proof yourself. Obviously, that's not necessarily a complete list - as we didn't test all FF lenses.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
So now you're calling me a liar, because I don't read 150-450 threads?
As I said, the proof was posted to this very thread, as part of our discussion. You didn't had to read 150-450 threads, just the posts you're arguing against.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
But you're just to obstinate to see a peace offering.
My bad... you're so modest and civilized, and I'd better not upset you

11-17-2016, 09:40 AM - 1 Like   #129
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Just to your information my Tamron 70-200/2.8 gives exactly the same degree and shape of vignetting with the DFA 150-450. This makes me believe the Pentax official and Asahi's statement about the DA 1.4 TC actually being a properly designated DA glass. I also had tested the DFA 150-450 with and without the TC prior to buying it and what I saw made me buy it. When Pentax releases a DFA 1.4X or 2X TC that doesn't work with the DFA 150-450 I will be worried about it! Until then I read every opinion with respect to the posters but I also have mine based on my findings.
11-17-2016, 09:41 AM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
You claimed Pentax need an FF 1.4 TC. I argued they already have one, both are true.

If you'd kept your claims to the 150-450 instead of saying Pentax needed an FF TC, we would have been fine. Where's my apology? Next time say what you mean, precisely.
I think you may have Kunzite confused with someone else - he was clear from the get-go about wanting a 1.4TC for use with his 150-450mm. He did call for a "D FA 1.4x RC", but his use case was explicit.
11-17-2016, 09:45 AM - 1 Like   #131
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Indeed I was specific about the lens. I also believe that a D FA 1.4x RC has a good chance of working well with the 150-450, because things are looking fine with the Tamron F 1.4x Pz-AF MC4. The lens doesn't require some special TC; the vignetting appears with a TC made for a smaller format according to the manufacturer.

@redpit: Thank you. Now we have 4 confirmed FF lenses on the "not working" list.

Last edited by Kunzite; 11-17-2016 at 09:57 AM.
11-17-2016, 10:45 AM   #132
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You're right, reading back through the thread...

QuoteOriginally posted by redpit Quote
Exactly that is the case. I'm feeling too that a FF TC will be one of Ricoh-Pentax priorities.
It was actually you that confused me. The post being the only one that mentioned an FF TC without mention of the 150-450 or the fact that the 1.4 works on many lenses. Unfortunately, when I came back in to the thread , that's where I came in.
11-17-2016, 11:29 AM   #133
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
You're right, reading back through the thread...



It was actually you that confused me. The post being the only one that mentioned an FF TC without mention of the 150-450 or the fact that the 1.4 works on many lenses. Unfortunately, when I came back in to the thread , that's where I came in.
It's a bit strange that I confused you as you should have put my entire post:

Originally posted by Chris Mak Quote
Of course the HD DA 1.4tc works, and even seems to work well with certain lenses. But mostly as a cost effective way to get reach on the K1 with e.g. a 200mm or 300mm lens. When you get to the 400+ - 560mm of the FF compatible DA150-450 or DA560, you have to crop so significantly, that it compromises the versatility, and you might as well use an apsc crop camera.

Chris

And then I made my comment: Exactly that is the case. I'm feeling too that a FF TC will be one of Ricoh-Pentax priorities.

So we (me, you and @Kunzite) are saying the same thing.
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