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10-20-2015, 11:16 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
You don't need ISO 6400; you need flash!
Flashes are not always practical, especially when there is not a bounceable surface, when you don't have room to stow it etc. If you are shooting your kids at a recital or any other indoor activities, a flash wont help there either.
Sometimes there is no replacement for more aperture and that is why folks are willing to pay $$$ for it.

But thanks for telling me what I do and don't need

10-20-2015, 11:34 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by nonstopnick Quote
For a walk around zoom for instance; is there any real need for an f2.8 capable lens? Indoor sports, sure, but how much can we overcome with just ISO and still be reasonably happy with the output? I ask this after a long outing with a big bright zoom. The 16-85 3.5/5.6 is starting to look good to me.

For most walk around I've found that f/4 and smaller aperture is enough. I even took photos in a museum at iso 12,800 at f/8 that looked very acceptable, to me. I am not typically photographing moving things, however.
10-20-2015, 12:12 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
If you are shooting your kids at a recital or any other indoor activities, a flash wont help there either.
That much is true, but for a toddler inside your own house, well... this is one reason I wouldn't buy a K3-II.
10-20-2015, 12:41 PM - 1 Like   #19
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the squirrel came out pretty well but in the bird pictures the bird is really really noisy. not a good example of getting away with high iso at all. i hope that was supposed to be the problem with high iso. lightroom's luminescence can smooth out noise at the cost of detail.

---------- Post added 10-20-15 at 03:50 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
That much is true, but for a toddler inside your own house, well... this is one reason I wouldn't buy a K3-II.
just shoe mount flash the little bastard w/o a diffuser till he's blind and he'll hold real still. I'm not a big fan of zooms indoors. something relatively wide and fast is usually a better option. your not going to be shooting narrower than like 50mm on ASP-C. my Sigma 30mm 1.4 is nice low light indoor lens. nice personal shots but still wide enough that you don't have to pretty much leave the room to get the shot in tight quarters. fish eye is always fun too. helps with focus issues because such a large dof. rokinon 8mm is at infinity at like 3ft i think. pretty much no focusing necessary even though its manual. the pentax one is nice bc its AF, zooms, and has a closer minimum focus though. more fishy look too. it'll make your kid look like a giant if you angle it right.

10-20-2015, 01:05 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by elementdtlop Quote
the squirrel came out pretty well but in the bird pictures the bird is really really noisy. not a good example of getting away with high iso at all.

I think the birds are a good example of "how good does good have to be?". I thought the birds were pretty good, actually, though I could certainly see the noise. What was acceptable to Rupert and (likely) me is clearly not okay for you - nothing wrong with that concept at all. I find that I'm often trading shutter speed for iso and I'd rather have a little more noise than camera motion. Rupert might have been able to get away with a lower iso and longer shutter speed, but we have to remember he's likely shooting from some distance. These photos by Rupert are about equivalent to what I consider "good" photos for me.
10-20-2015, 01:15 PM   #21
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I'll look at it from the other side.

The main reason that I 'would' have a bright/fast lens is for bokeh.
The other reason - typically sharper at faster settings eg. f/1.4 lens is usually quite sharp by say f/2.4 to f/2.8, where as an F/4 lens sharpens up by f/5.6
Portraits/indoor shots w/o flash.

That being said, I do use my DA 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 a LOT.
I do have some cheap primes
Sigma 28mm f/2.8
Pentax M 50 f/1.4
Pentax DA 50 f/1.8
Rokinon 85 f/1.4
Pentax M 200 f/4

Here's a shot with the Pentax M 50
https://www.flickr.com/photos/formercanuck/albums/72157651379944555
10-20-2015, 05:59 PM   #22
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For me having a fast lens is a no brainer.The F/2.8 lens also gives you an advantage in focusing over an F/4 lens because twice the amount of available light is getting through..If the depth of feild is to narrow you can just stop down to F/4 but you can't go to F/2.8 with an F/4 lens.All photographers want an image to be as clean as possible and i would say most are never satisfied,they always look for ways to improve upon what they have.That is why we keep buying lenses.

10-20-2015, 06:01 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
You don't need ISO 6400; you need flash!

With some of the photos I have been taking, a flash would be wrong to use and destroy the light that is there.


I have been taking photos of local bar bands and if I would have used my flash, I would have blinded the musicians and not got photos like this,
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10-20-2015, 07:43 PM   #24
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I love fast lenses as it gives you quite some latitude. Having said that Rupert clearly shows its about light and technique. Pixel peepers will disagree with me - but when I see Rupert’s examples, despite the noise, those are good pictures - acceptable (unless you have a client). While higher ISO is generally to be avoided, the K3 or the K5s (coupled with most primes) generally are quite capable of delivering great shots. And BTW Rupert may not even be using a prime in these examples.

Coming back to OP:
photography involves compromises. There is no real answer as to what compromises one can stick with. After all some of us don’t carry our cameras all the time, so there are numerous moments that we miss anyway.

Personally, I am inclined to shoot much less inside as possible. When I do, I keep my options simple:
Daytime: use available light (usually with a fast lens) otherwise with OCF and a diffuser
Nighttime: simple off camera flash gig (like a Metz flash, PW10X and Rogue Flashbender) to take care of the lighting. Mind you, this is heavy to lug around, so until its really important, i don’t carry this.

For paid professional use its different story altogether.
10-20-2015, 08:27 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
If you are shooting your kids at a recital or any other indoor activities, a flash wont help there either.

Shooting the recital at f1.4 will be a disaster, Cali - you could have the eyes of your kid in focus, and almost nothing else.


You set the aperture according to DoF in these cases (letting the ISO soar) or use flash, letting you shoot at quality f-stops like f5.6 and f8.
10-20-2015, 08:44 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Shooting the recital at f1.4 will be a disaster, Cali - you could have the eyes of your kid in focus, and almost nothing else.


You set the aperture according to DoF in these cases (letting the ISO soar) or use flash, letting you shoot at quality f-stops like f5.6 and f8.
Ummm yea if you are 5 feet from your kid blocking out the entire audience. If you are at 25ft sitting in your seat, then the dof with a 50mm lens @f1.4 is 4 feet.
10-21-2015, 05:50 AM   #27
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It depend of your tolerance for noise on one side, what sensor you have and what you are shooting.

A few examples...

For a walk-around, do you include evening walk ? I typically also visit cities at night when travelling, that's part of the experience.

For your practice, do you accept that you'll not take some shoots because it doesn't meet your quality criteria? Is it a big issue or you don't really care (aka, you don't have to take pictures of everything all the time).

Do you have some practices that are very demanding? Macro, Action shooting, Birding, Concerts?

What do you do then with your pictures? Do you print them large for displaying them in the house? Do you print them in a book or magazine or just share them online?

The picture, it is very contrasty and graphical or does it is subtle color tones and detail that count?

Also how much time are you willing to spend on the post processing? do you shoot RAW or JPEG? Do you use a professionnal tool like lightroom or DxO?

Finally, what is your priority? Conveniance, weight or ultimate quality?



For my practice I do find that for most shoots I have no issue and I often use f/5.6 - f/8 even if some lenses I can use f/1.8. Still I know that starting iso 1600 I not that happy and I try to avoid to go past iso 3200. I know it depend a lot on the situation. As a traveller, I find many occasions where I would benefit of better high iso performance or larger apperture for some of my lenses: museums, churchs, palaces and other indoor shoots, evening shoot of cities... Photos of people is another situation as many are taken indoor and the large apperture is often a feature and when people ask me to take picture of them, I'am really happy to have some f/1.8 or f/2.8 lenses.

Does the limitations of my gear bother me much? No. I decided to go for primes, no zoom, and to use small primes. My wide angle lenses are slow (f/4, f/3.2) while the other lenses are reasonnably fast (f/2.8, f/1.8), that matches the typical requirement to shoot faster when using tele and the bokeh is often a feature. So that's great.

Now I'am thinking of a zoom, the priority is likely a 18-300 so I don't need to change lense in some occasion and to get more reach on the occasion.

As if you are better with f/2.8 zoom or slow ones, it depend if you take more landscapes or peoples.

Last edited by Nicolas06; 10-21-2015 at 05:56 AM.
10-21-2015, 06:13 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by elementdtlop Quote
the squirrel came out pretty well but in the bird pictures the bird is really really noisy. not a good example of getting away with high iso at all. i hope that was supposed to be the problem with high iso. lightroom's luminescence can smooth out noise at the cost of detail.[COLOR="Silver"]
Grackles are inherently very loud birds. If you've found some kind of noise reduction that works on them, I've a few in my yard that could do with a silencing.

10-21-2015, 06:17 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
If you stick to handsome squirrels any ISO will work...they are just naturally handsome in any light and at any ISO.

Rupert, I agree wholeheartedly. I think you've invented an entirely new photographic genre - squirrel photography!
10-21-2015, 06:21 AM - 1 Like   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
If you've found some kind of noise reduction that works on them, I've a few in my yard that could do with a silencing.
Such things often involve large numbers of small soft lead spheres moving very quickly. Unfortunately, legal issues frequently preclude their use, particularly in urban environments and on less populous species.
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