Question for DA 16-85 owners

**BigMackCam** · 10-30-2015, 05:35 AM

Hi folks - just took delivery of my DA 16-85 and wondering if I have a faulty copy. When adjusting the focus back and forth (either in AF or MF), the frame visibly moves up or down respectively by a small amount. I say small - at 50mm+, it is enough for the point I'm focusing on to move noticeably. This isn't focus breathing, as far as I can tell - the frame actually moves up or down. Does anyone else experience this? It's very distracting when close focusing at or above 50mm FL...

Thanks in advance

EDIT: After the initial surprise of this, I've been using the lens for an hour or so and checking the results. All looks good; better than good, in fact - the images are lovely. And the very small vertical movement of the image in the frame only seems to occur as the focus mechanism changes direction to make a *significant* alteration to focus. There's no wobble of the extending lens tubes, so I can only guess that there is some play in one of the internal moving lens components. I think I can live with it; it's really very minor (if a little strange), and the image quality is impressive - better than I'd hoped.

I'd still be interested to know if anyone else notices this on their copy, though... I've read of at least two other people who've experienced it (one noticed a side-to-side movement of the image during focus hunting)...

Last edited by BigMackCam; 10-30-2015 at 07:04 AM.

**BigMackCam** · 10-31-2015, 07:14 AM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

Hi folks - just took delivery of my DA 16-85 and wondering if I have a faulty copy. When adjusting the focus back and forth (either in AF or MF), the frame visibly moves up or down respectively by a small amount. I say small - at 50mm+, it is enough for the point I'm focusing on to move noticeably. This isn't focus breathing, as far as I can tell - the frame actually moves up or down. Does anyone else experience this? It's very distracting when close focusing at or above 50mm FL...

Thanks in advance

EDIT: After the initial surprise of this, I've been using the lens for an hour or so and checking the results. All looks good; better than good, in fact - the images are lovely. And the very small vertical movement of the image in the frame only seems to occur as the focus mechanism changes direction to make a *significant* alteration to focus. There's no wobble of the extending lens tubes, so I can only guess that there is some play in one of the internal moving lens components. I think I can live with it; it's really very minor (if a little strange), and the image quality is impressive - better than I'd hoped.

I'd still be interested to know if anyone else notices this on their copy, though... I've read of at least two other people who've experienced it (one noticed a side-to-side movement of the image during focus hunting)...

Well, I returned the lens today and have requested a replacement. The clincher was using the camera on a tripod... After setting up the shot just right, having the top or bottom edge move out of frame after focusing meant having to re-compose the shot ever-so-slightly. Given the cost of the lens, I reluctantly decided to try another copy. I just hope the new one doesn't have the same problem... Overall, it's a very nice lens.

Lev · 11-03-2015, 11:17 AM

Yes I also can tell that this lens is just great!! I'm getting heart attack when someone says bad things about it, especially after a long history of my K3 II replacements.

Good luck with your new copies guys!

**BigMackCam** · 11-05-2015, 08:30 AM

Well, it has taken a few days but the supplier's technical guys confirmed what I knew to be the case, and my replacement is on its way, arriving tomorrow... Really hoping I get a good copy this time - I'm a little nervous

**BigMackCam** · 11-06-2015, 06:04 AM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

Well, it has taken a few days but the supplier's technical guys confirmed what I knew to be the case, and my replacement is on its way, arriving tomorrow... Really hoping I get a good copy this time - I'm a little nervous

Woohoo! Happy Bunny, happy bunny!

Replacement lens arrived this morning... no play in the lens elements (hence no up / down / sideways movement of the image during focusing) and no other apparent problems. Looks like a good copy... I haven't relaxed since I sent the dodgy one back to the supplier

For anyone considering this lens, I recommend thoroughly testing it as soon as it arrives. Since the problem with my first unit, I've found a couple of reports of the same issue, as well as clicking in the DC motor / AF mechanism and noticeably de-centered optics (one unlucky fella got three bad copies in a row and eventually gave up). Seems like the QC may not be too good. That said, from limited experience with both my original unit and the one received this morning, I think it's worth persevering to get a decent one, as it seems very sharp for a zoom...

bdery · 11-06-2015, 06:52 AM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

Seems like the QC may not be too good.

There has been a very low amount of "bad copies" reports for this lens, even at first. QC is never perfect but I'd say it's pretty good for that lens.

You will enjoy it a lot, I'm sure.

**BigMackCam** · 11-06-2015, 06:57 AM

Originally posted by bdery

There has been a very low amount of "bad copies" reports for this lens, even at first. QC is never perfect but I'd say it's pretty good for that lens.

You will enjoy it a lot, I'm sure.

No, I agree - QC is never perfect. When you start looking for problem reports (as I did when I got my first one), it can be worrying to see examples of the same problem... worse still when you read about others... but I guess this makes up only a tiny fraction of the units shipped. Anyway, I'm glad the second one is fine

Lev · 11-07-2015, 03:27 AM

When I ordered my K3 from amazon, it was under safe serial numbers, sent it back. Then I ordered it from BH, pentaprism was damaged, returned. Then BH replaced it. I'm not even saying about tax and return fees. I wonder this is QC or just my bad luck?

Paulo · 11-07-2015, 08:54 AM

This is normal... have you ever seen golden rounded stick with "Q.A. Passed" text on all these new pieces of equipment? Currently all this business is focused on providing max benefits for shareholders :-P I bought recently 53-years old Sonnar for my Hassy500c and sent it to CLA. After this the service guy gave me 2-years full warranty for the lens (obviously incl. synchro compur shutter mounted in). After a half of century of proffesional usage the ordinary CLA was sufficient to ensure further work of the lens... These times such a quality products are very rare

KDD · 11-07-2015, 09:23 AM - **1 Like**

Pentax didn't add firmware for new lenses?????

**boriscleto** · 11-07-2015, 09:46 AM

Originally posted by Paulo

This is normal... have you ever seen golden rounded stick with "Q.A. Passed" text on all these new pieces of equipment?

That's because they stopped putting them on lenses in 1989.

Quote:

The JDMC/JCII testing program, having fulfilled its goals, ended in 1989 and its gold "PASSED" sticker passed into history.[216] The JCIA/JCII morphed into the Camera & Imaging Products Association (CIPA) in 2002.[217]

Paulo · 11-07-2015, 09:47 AM

Ah... OK, I see... anyway, it seems that all the quality was just in these sticks. Now no stick - no quality ;-)

sTi · 11-25-2015, 04:03 AM

For the record, my copy of the 16-85 shows the same up/down shift of the picture when making quick focus adjustments. Otherwise the optical quality seems perfectly fine. I also didn't notice any decentering problems. I wonder if this is something that can/should be fixed by the service center? It's too late for an exchange in my case

Two other things seem strange:
1. At 85/5.6, the lens is razor sharp all across the frame when used at normal focusing distances. However, close to the minimum focus distance the sharpness deteriorates completely towards the edges; A small part in the center remains sharp but the rest of the frame is very soft. I did rule out that this is a focusing or field curvature issue; it's simply a steep sharpness drop. Has anyone checked their copy for this issue?

2. Also at 85mm, the lens sometimes fails to lock focus for no apparent reason and the Hexagon in the viewfinder blinks. Actually, this seems like the same behavior that I (and many others) experienced with the DA 17-70 at the long end. The problem is that it's not always easy to replicate and only happens in some conditions and/or focusing distances. Has anyone noticed this as well?

pearcemi · 12-20-2015, 04:17 PM

I am also seeing this problem. I was testing out a Pentax HD 16-85mm vs a Pentax 20-40mm LTD for manual focusing in live view. I noticed that as you rotated the focus ring the image on the live view screen slightly shifted over when focusing the 16-85mm, but not when focusing the 20-40mm.

Now it seems that people have sent it back and gotten a copy that isn't doing this, but others sent it in for repairs and got a message that there were no defects. So confusing!

Is it worth sending back and trying to get one that isn't performing like this? This copy is sharp too, so I would hate to lose that.

**BigMackCam** · 12-21-2015, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by pearcemi

I am also seeing this problem. I was testing out a Pentax HD 16-85mm vs a Pentax 20-40mm LTD for manual focusing in live view. I noticed that as you rotated the focus ring the image on the live view screen slightly shifted over when focusing the 16-85mm, but not when focusing the 20-40mm.

Now it seems that people have sent it back and gotten a copy that isn't doing this, but others sent it in for repairs and got a message that there were no defects. So confusing!

Is it worth sending back and trying to get one that isn't performing like this? This copy is sharp too, so I would hate to lose that.

Sorry to hear about this. It seems to be quite a common "characteristic" of this lens. As to whether you should send it back... does the slight movement affect your photography at all - ie. does it cause you to miss focus points, or does it cause any obvious image imperfections? If the answer is no to both of these, and the AF is reliable at all focal lengths, I personally would keep it. Unfortunately, my first copy had bad enough movement that I couldn't live with it... and the replacement copy was noticeably decentered, so that had to go back too - at which point I sadly gave up on the lens and bought an alternative.

10-30-2015, 05:35 AM	#1
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,674	Question for DA 16-85 owners Hi folks - just took delivery of my DA 16-85 and wondering if I have a faulty copy. When adjusting the focus back and forth (either in AF or MF), the frame visibly moves up or down respectively by a small amount. I say small - at 50mm+, it is enough for the point I'm focusing on to move noticeably. This isn't focus breathing, as far as I can tell - the frame actually moves up or down. Does anyone else experience this? It's very distracting when close focusing at or above 50mm FL... Thanks in advance EDIT: After the initial surprise of this, I've been using the lens for an hour or so and checking the results. All looks good; better than good, in fact - the images are lovely. And the very small vertical movement of the image in the frame only seems to occur as the focus mechanism changes direction to make a significant alteration to focus. There's no wobble of the extending lens tubes, so I can only guess that there is some play in one of the internal moving lens components. I think I can live with it; it's really very minor (if a little strange), and the image quality is impressive - better than I'd hoped. I'd still be interested to know if anyone else notices this on their copy, though... I've read of at least two other people who've experienced it (one noticed a side-to-side movement of the image during focus hunting)... Last edited by BigMackCam; 10-30-2015 at 07:04 AM.

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10-31-2015, 07:14 AM	#2
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,674 Original Poster	Originally posted by BigMackCam Hi folks - just took delivery of my DA 16-85 and wondering if I have a faulty copy. When adjusting the focus back and forth (either in AF or MF), the frame visibly moves up or down respectively by a small amount. I say small - at 50mm+, it is enough for the point I'm focusing on to move noticeably. This isn't focus breathing, as far as I can tell - the frame actually moves up or down. Does anyone else experience this? It's very distracting when close focusing at or above 50mm FL... Thanks in advance EDIT: After the initial surprise of this, I've been using the lens for an hour or so and checking the results. All looks good; better than good, in fact - the images are lovely. And the very small vertical movement of the image in the frame only seems to occur as the focus mechanism changes direction to make a significant alteration to focus. There's no wobble of the extending lens tubes, so I can only guess that there is some play in one of the internal moving lens components. I think I can live with it; it's really very minor (if a little strange), and the image quality is impressive - better than I'd hoped. I'd still be interested to know if anyone else notices this on their copy, though... I've read of at least two other people who've experienced it (one noticed a side-to-side movement of the image during focus hunting)... Well, I returned the lens today and have requested a replacement. The clincher was using the camera on a tripod... After setting up the shot just right, having the top or bottom edge move out of frame after focusing meant having to re-compose the shot ever-so-slightly. Given the cost of the lens, I reluctantly decided to try another copy. I just hope the new one doesn't have the same problem... Overall, it's a very nice lens.

11-03-2015, 11:17 AM	#3
Lev Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Tbilisi, Georgia Posts: 1,197	Yes I also can tell that this lens is just great!! I'm getting heart attack when someone says bad things about it, especially after a long history of my K3 II replacements. Good luck with your new copies guys!

11-05-2015, 08:30 AM	#4
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,674 Original Poster	Well, it has taken a few days but the supplier's technical guys confirmed what I knew to be the case, and my replacement is on its way, arriving tomorrow... Really hoping I get a good copy this time - I'm a little nervous

11-06-2015, 06:04 AM	#5
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,674 Original Poster	Originally posted by BigMackCam Well, it has taken a few days but the supplier's technical guys confirmed what I knew to be the case, and my replacement is on its way, arriving tomorrow... Really hoping I get a good copy this time - I'm a little nervous Woohoo! Happy Bunny, happy bunny! Replacement lens arrived this morning... no play in the lens elements (hence no up / down / sideways movement of the image during focusing) and no other apparent problems. Looks like a good copy... I haven't relaxed since I sent the dodgy one back to the supplier For anyone considering this lens, I recommend thoroughly testing it as soon as it arrives. Since the problem with my first unit, I've found a couple of reports of the same issue, as well as clicking in the DC motor / AF mechanism and noticeably de-centered optics (one unlucky fella got three bad copies in a row and eventually gave up). Seems like the QC may not be too good. That said, from limited experience with both my original unit and the one received this morning, I think it's worth persevering to get a decent one, as it seems very sharp for a zoom...

11-06-2015, 06:52 AM	#6
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,357	Originally posted by BigMackCam Seems like the QC may not be too good. There has been a very low amount of "bad copies" reports for this lens, even at first. QC is never perfect but I'd say it's pretty good for that lens. You will enjoy it a lot, I'm sure.

11-06-2015, 06:57 AM	#7
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,674 Original Poster	Originally posted by bdery There has been a very low amount of "bad copies" reports for this lens, even at first. QC is never perfect but I'd say it's pretty good for that lens. You will enjoy it a lot, I'm sure. No, I agree - QC is never perfect. When you start looking for problem reports (as I did when I got my first one), it can be worrying to see examples of the same problem... worse still when you read about others... but I guess this makes up only a tiny fraction of the units shipped. Anyway, I'm glad the second one is fine

11-07-2015, 03:27 AM	#8
Lev Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Tbilisi, Georgia Posts: 1,197	When I ordered my K3 from amazon, it was under safe serial numbers, sent it back. Then I ordered it from BH, pentaprism was damaged, returned. Then BH replaced it. I'm not even saying about tax and return fees. I wonder this is QC or just my bad luck?

11-07-2015, 08:54 AM	#9
Paulo Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 74	This is normal... have you ever seen golden rounded stick with "Q.A. Passed" text on all these new pieces of equipment? Currently all this business is focused on providing max benefits for shareholders :-P I bought recently 53-years old Sonnar for my Hassy500c and sent it to CLA. After this the service guy gave me 2-years full warranty for the lens (obviously incl. synchro compur shutter mounted in). After a half of century of proffesional usage the ordinary CLA was sufficient to ensure further work of the lens... These times such a quality products are very rare

11-07-2015, 09:23 AM - 1 Like	#10
KDD Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 403	Pentax didn't add firmware for new lenses?????

11-07-2015, 09:46 AM	#11
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,475	Originally posted by Paulo This is normal... have you ever seen golden rounded stick with "Q.A. Passed" text on all these new pieces of equipment? That's because they stopped putting them on lenses in 1989. Quote: The JDMC/JCII testing program, having fulfilled its goals, ended in 1989 and its gold "PASSED" sticker passed into history.[216] The JCIA/JCII morphed into the Camera & Imaging Products Association (CIPA) in 2002.[217]

11-07-2015, 09:47 AM	#12
Paulo Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 74	Ah... OK, I see... anyway, it seems that all the quality was just in these sticks. Now no stick - no quality ;-)

11-25-2015, 04:03 AM	#13
sTi Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 98	For the record, my copy of the 16-85 shows the same up/down shift of the picture when making quick focus adjustments. Otherwise the optical quality seems perfectly fine. I also didn't notice any decentering problems. I wonder if this is something that can/should be fixed by the service center? It's too late for an exchange in my case Two other things seem strange: 1. At 85/5.6, the lens is razor sharp all across the frame when used at normal focusing distances. However, close to the minimum focus distance the sharpness deteriorates completely towards the edges; A small part in the center remains sharp but the rest of the frame is very soft. I did rule out that this is a focusing or field curvature issue; it's simply a steep sharpness drop. Has anyone checked their copy for this issue? 2. Also at 85mm, the lens sometimes fails to lock focus for no apparent reason and the Hexagon in the viewfinder blinks. Actually, this seems like the same behavior that I (and many others) experienced with the DA 17-70 at the long end. The problem is that it's not always easy to replicate and only happens in some conditions and/or focusing distances. Has anyone noticed this as well?

12-20-2015, 04:17 PM	#14
pearcemi Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Brooklyn, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 147	I am also seeing this problem. I was testing out a Pentax HD 16-85mm vs a Pentax 20-40mm LTD for manual focusing in live view. I noticed that as you rotated the focus ring the image on the live view screen slightly shifted over when focusing the 16-85mm, but not when focusing the 20-40mm. Now it seems that people have sent it back and gotten a copy that isn't doing this, but others sent it in for repairs and got a message that there were no defects. So confusing! Is it worth sending back and trying to get one that isn't performing like this? This copy is sharp too, so I would hate to lose that.

12-21-2015, 03:14 PM	#15
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,674 Original Poster	Originally posted by pearcemi I am also seeing this problem. I was testing out a Pentax HD 16-85mm vs a Pentax 20-40mm LTD for manual focusing in live view. I noticed that as you rotated the focus ring the image on the live view screen slightly shifted over when focusing the 16-85mm, but not when focusing the 20-40mm. Now it seems that people have sent it back and gotten a copy that isn't doing this, but others sent it in for repairs and got a message that there were no defects. So confusing! Is it worth sending back and trying to get one that isn't performing like this? This copy is sharp too, so I would hate to lose that. Sorry to hear about this. It seems to be quite a common "characteristic" of this lens. As to whether you should send it back... does the slight movement affect your photography at all - ie. does it cause you to miss focus points, or does it cause any obvious image imperfections? If the answer is no to both of these, and the AF is reliable at all focal lengths, I personally would keep it. Unfortunately, my first copy had bad enough movement that I couldn't live with it... and the replacement copy was noticeably decentered, so that had to go back too - at which point I sadly gave up on the lens and bought an alternative.