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12-22-2015, 03:30 PM   #1
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Budget Birding Lens... ooh

I've been wanting a bit more reach than my 55-300 f/5.6 can offer, so I recently acquired the Tokina 400mm f/5.6 AT-X AF SD, the version with the aperture ring. I've yet to test it out thoroughly, it just arrived. It's pretty a hefty metal lens, good build quality and all. I need to rethink my long lens shooting positions!

I'm curious as to why this lens isn't mentioned more often on the forums. Obviously, for one, its discontinued and doesn't seem to be that common. But since there aren't many AF 400mm primes in pentax-land, i'm surprised this isn't mentioned very much. Unless i'm just blind

I know Scorpio71GR has got one
QuoteQuote:
I have a Tokina 400mm 5.6 manual focus lens that I could sell. This would be an inexpensive investment. I bought it to try out and ended up buying the AF version. The two versions are identical except for AF.


Curious to know who else has got this lens, and how people's experiences with the lens have been!




12-22-2015, 04:38 PM   #2
csa
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I had the Tokina 400 AF; but I felt limited in having to move around to get the shots and frighten the wildlife. I since sold here on Marketplace. It was an excellent lens, but I prefer zooms.

I'm very pleased with the 55-300; especially since I got the K3; cropping is awesome with this combo!
12-22-2015, 05:52 PM   #3
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I had an MF version of the 400 f5.6 Tokina, but I think the optics were slightly different from the ATX-AF. I thought the lens exceptionally small and light, with a wonderful slide-forward hood, but IQ wide open was not especially good, and even stopped down to f8~11 I thought it was marginal. Eventually replaced it with a SIgma 300 f4 APO macro which was rated somewhat higher than the 400 f5.6 APO macro SIgma was making at the same time. None of these lenses have ED elements which seems to be required to get really good IQ in long teles.
12-22-2015, 05:52 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by csa Quote
I had the Tokina 400 AF; but I felt limited in having to move around to get the shots and frighten the wildlife. I since sold here on Marketplace. It was an excellent lens, but I prefer zooms.

I'm very pleased with the 55-300; especially since I got the K3; cropping is awesome with this combo!
This is exactly what I wanted to see. The DA 55 - 300 has dropped to $255 and I just bought one from B&H. The box just arrived today and I can't wait to try it out on my K-3. First impression on unpacking is the build quality. Being used to using DA Limiteds and the DFA 100 WR, I expected this lens to feel like a budget plastic lens, but got quite a surprise when I held it. It feels like a far more expensive premium lens than a budget lens. I am looking forward to trying it out on my backyard birds.

12-22-2015, 06:07 PM   #5
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I picked up a Sigma 170-500 F5.6 f6.3 for $350 on eBay. I've only had it a couple of months and haven't had the chance to really play, but the results of the limited shooting I have done with it are encouraging. at F6.3 it is limited, but at 500 mm, it really brings things in tight.
12-22-2015, 07:33 PM   #6
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I currently considering the DA 55-300 vs a Tokina 80-400mm AT-X lens....
12-22-2015, 08:03 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by pepperberry farm Quote
I currently considering the DA 55-300 vs a Tokina 80-400mm AT-X lens....
I suspect the Pentax will trump that Tokina for IQ.

12-22-2015, 09:12 PM   #8
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I had the Tokina 80-400 in a Canon mount rather briefly. Only one lens in my stable went away faster (and that was on the UWA end of the scale). Once past 300mm, you have to work long and hard to find great deals out there. Tokina and Tamron failed to compete in the ultra-tele zoom, non-OEM market because, well, they failed to compete on an image quality basis. Not that the 80-400 wasn't lovely to touch and zoom...
12-23-2015, 12:09 AM   #9
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I have Tokina SD 400/5.6 AF (exactly the same as in the first photo).

I acquired this one cheaply for experiments. These Tokinas are known to be prone to lens separation, but mine has another problem- some kind of foggy substance on one surface, which I managed to clean, but the surface of lens is damaged a bit and the lens looses a bit of contrast.

I had to open the lens for several times during my repairs and can say it's built to the best Tokina standarts (except for lens glue which is unfortunately "Tokina standard", too). Metal only, no plastic (except for collars and mount contact holder), extremely easy to disassemble and assemble, highly modular construction. It is clearly seen that the front part with all the glass is one unit and the rear part with focus drive and aperture control is screwed on. There is even place in lens frame to install AF motor (for Canon version, I suppose).

Other problem on my lens was aperture control from camera (setting at 6.3 aperture won't close at all, setting at f:8 it just closed to appr.1/3 stop, at f:9 it would close to about f:6.3). It was super-easy repair (unscrew bayonet mount, loosen 2 screws on aperture activating lever, ajust, tighten, screw back mount, check on the camera). Now aperture works OK.

The lens itself is small and light (for all-metal 400mm prime), it can be hand-holded for prolonged time with no problems. AF is frightening fast on K-3, with loud metallic "clang" at the end stops, very reliable in general. Image quality is not premium, but not that bad at all, too. The biggest issue is purple fringing that can be very obtrusive, so it is better to shoot RAW (PF is generally easily removed in RAW converters). With good light and good focus even 1:1 crops are useable.

I don't have many examples from my Tokina because I repaired it in October? and we have total 24/7 for the whole automn/winter period. Most my shots are about F5.6, ISO3200, 1/250-1/125, so documentary only

Few examples that are somewhat useable:


Heavily cropped images at high ISO's







Lightly cropped, IIRC




With a flash at reasonable distance (so lightly cropped or not cropped) and lower ISOs



12-23-2015, 01:11 AM - 1 Like   #10
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I got one of these lenses a few months ago for my son in law to try as a lightweight alternative to the big Sigma zoom he'd been carrying around. Before it went out on loan I had a bit of a play and I have to admit it surprised me how light and easy to handle it is and also how good the results can be.

This one was literally snapped in the back garden at maximum aperture (much advice is around stopping down because it can be a bit soft at f5.6) and although I may not have picked the perfect focus point it still shows a good level of IQ:


Again this is at maximum aperture (handheld) :


And a couple of Robin shots (this time at f7.1 and f6.3) :





I suspect the Pentax Fa400/5.6 will be a better lens, but this little beauty is a bit of a hidden gem IMO
12-23-2015, 02:19 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by LennyBloke Quote
I suspect the Pentax Fa400/5.6 will be a better lens
It would want to be good. Last I looked they were going for more than $US2000. But that was before the release of the DA 150-450, which would surely be a better buy at around that price. In fact the DA*300 + Pentax TC would be better value without more bulk or weight.

Nice examples from the Tokina Lenny. Looks a very good budget buy.

All long lenses involve a compromise between weight and bulk, versatility, speed, AF performance, reach and price. The combination of a 400 f5.6 prime won't suit everyone, but I like it. Sure everyone would like more reach and more speed, but there is a lot to be said for a lens that is easier to carry and able to be used handheld. That (and the fact that I found a mint copy for a great price) was why I preferred my Sigma 400 f5.6 tele macro to the alternatives in roughly the same price range like a Sigma 150-500. Big difference between 1.3kg and 1.9kg. As for the versatility, I used to have a Sigma 170-500, but I don't really miss the zoom much, because I was mostly shooting at the long end anyway, and the 55-300 can fill the gap adequately.

You could make a good case for a F/FA*300 f4.5 + 1.4 TC instead, but that combination would be significantly more expensive than the Tokina or the Sigma 400 tele macro.

Last edited by Des; 12-23-2015 at 02:25 AM.
12-23-2015, 05:50 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
I suspect the Pentax will trump that Tokina for IQ.



I am tending to agree with you..... now I'm torn between the Pentax and ponying up for a decent flash/trigger to get serious with on/off camera flash photography....
12-23-2015, 06:34 AM - 2 Likes   #13
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I found the AT-X 400/5.6 AF lens a joy to use -- it focuses fast, and it's very sturdy but not overly heavy. But the IQ wide open, or even in the next ZIP code to wide open, is disappointing. However, if there is enough light to allow ~careful~ hand-held shooting at f/11, it can produce some good images. Here are a few pairs of images (both resamples from full size "originals" and 100% crops from each):










...but only at f/11...

Last edited by fwcetus; 12-23-2015 at 12:57 PM.
12-23-2015, 06:39 AM   #14
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I have a Vivitar 500mm telephoto. I call it the shillelagh, it would make a good club.
When I can nail focus and exposure, it's astonishingly good. It's also astonishingly difficult to get those parameters... It's where I really miss the bigger viewfinders and split-focus screens.

They're worth playing with if you have a fixed spot to focus on.

I think the biggest problem is the lens mount adapter - it would be nice to machine a larger mount. Maybe I'll talk to a buddy of mine...
12-23-2015, 08:26 AM - 2 Likes   #15
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I have both versions of the Tokina 400mm AT-X. The manual focus version from my film days and the Autofocus version I bought for my K10D. Both versions are optically identical. I do not think a lot of these were made since I rarely see them for sale. Over the years of using these lenses I have found one thing for sure. 400mm f5.6 needs a ton of light. With a minimum aperture of 5.6 and smaller lens elements there just never seems to enough light getting g to the sensor. Top this off with needing to stop down to f8-f11 for decent IQ and it can be quite frustrating. Since the price of this lens is much more affordable than anything else I think people buy it excepting unrealistic results and end up giving up on it. You will not get the IQ out this lens compared to any F*,FA*, or DA* lens. Or course all those lenses are considerably much more.

What I did get from both versions was a chance to shoot above 200mm for the first time. It also gave considerable appreciation for those people who shoot successfully at thesea long focal lengths. The build quality is typical Tokina built lie a tank buikd. I never experienced any separation on either of my copies. The built in lens is a nice feature until you try to shoot BIF. The hood always slides back. I always kept some clay to put on the hood for this. Using thesee on digital they earned the nickname, purple monster, for the amount of fringing I could get. I think this lens is a nice choice for someone who wants to start out in wildlife without breaking the bank. If you can manage great shots with this lens imagine what you can do with a F, FA, or DA*300 plus thec1.4TC.I really do not use either lens anymore. My HD 55-300 is much more portable and 50-500 is sharper and has more reach. However I never had any trouble taking the Tokina with me in my camera bag. I can not say the same for the beast that is the 50-500.

One of this lens strong points is its MFD of 8 feet which quite impressive for 400mm. Since it has an apeture ring it can be used with extension tubes which I did do.
A few shots from this year.













---------- Post added 12-23-15 at 10:32 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by pepperberry farm Quote
I am tending to agree with you..... now I'm torn between the Pentax and ponying up for a decent flash/trigger to get serious with on/off camera flash photography....
My HD 55-300 is definitely sharper than my Tokina 400. However I have never tried to compare a 300mm image cropped to the 400mm fov. But I would expect them to be about the same or the 300 to be better especially on the K3.
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