Bokeh Masters - samples, notes, suggestions?

thePiRaTE!! · 07-04-2008, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by k100d

after reading this thread, i took some quick snaps around the house to experiment more with the bokeh of the A50 1.2. these photos have no artistic merit. looks pretty good to me, but there are some hard rings if you look closely and some pretty apparent CA if not careful.

back to the original post, i think this would be the lens i'd use for bokeh, just because it has the ability to blur almost anything in a very smooth way that lets you highlight certain details. however at 1.2, there is a bit of a "glow" around the focused subject that needs to be carefully used / hidden.

oooohhhh... no you di'n't. thats niiiiiiiccceee.... glow and everything. . . . must resist. . . .. . . temptation!

that shot hits my buttons. if i'm being honest, it looks quite noktonish! you could probably save your cash if you'de ever considered one, thats what it does best too, very similar looking.

Originally posted by Arjay Bee

Regarding the number of aperture blades, as shown before is the Isco Gottingen Tele Westanar 135 3.5 M42 that has 15 aperture blades making a perfectly circular aperture at all positions.
...But then macro distances are fairly easy to produce reasonable bokeh. This one is at a more standard 2metres or so:

quoted for truth re:macro. of course, closing toward minimum focus distance is a sure fire way to isolate. hard to judge bokeh quality when too close.

this pic is nice, smooth, even 'modern' looking, bokeh wise.

It brings up a side note for me re:aperture blades. When the lens is wide open, they aren't in the shot - circles of confusion are round on all lenses. And for me, if I'm stopping down - I kinda like having a hexagon or bit of a star burst of light - I'd just as soon design a lens with 6 straight blades. But there it is - subjectiveness sneaking in again!

Of all movies, I was watching Rambo the other night, and during the scene when the missionary chick was first pleading with him, there was all kinds of cool hexagonal bokeh, it made me want to find a 6-bladed lens.. . . hey, I think I'll go do that (any suggestions?)

thePiRaTE!! · 07-04-2008, 11:47 AM

Hey I got an idea about hexagonal bokeh, here's a test shot:

Its the Voigtlander 125mm Lanthar with a circular piece of paper with a hexagon cut into the center and stuck after the rear element, hehe.. . well, so much for the search for a hexagonal aperture.

FWIW, here is the same subject without the homemade aperture, wide open:

Anyways, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

danielchtong · 07-04-2008, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by thePiRaTE!!

Hey I got an idea about hexagonal bokeh, here's a test shot:

About hexagonal bokeh, this blog likely gave a better illustration as to how it arose and how it could be manipulated - from another fellow in Steve forum.

AIC Photography

There seems to be thinking that more number of blades the better the bokeh. As you said, it is very very subjective and I will let forum members to judge. Would members like the 8 blades (as shown in the link above above) set up or the 6?

Daniel

thePiRaTE!! · 07-04-2008, 02:59 PM

Great link Daniel - lovely bokeh regardless of aperture! (Personally, I think I liked the octagonal lights best).

k100d · 07-04-2008, 04:12 PM

i'm enjoying this thread a lot

here is an article i saw a while back about changing bokeh shapes
DIY - Create your own Bokeh | DIYPhotography.net

Originally posted by thePiRaTE!!

oooohhhh... no you di'n't. thats niiiiiiiccceee.... glow and everything. . . . must resist. . . .. . . temptation!

that shot hits my buttons. if i'm being honest, it looks quite noktonish! you could probably save your cash if you'de ever considered one, thats what it does best too, very similar looking.

give in Kelly, give in!

i think a bit of that "glowish" look comes from my fiddling with the curves but it's definitely something i should learn to exploit! you're right tho, looking at some Nokton photos, it has a similar smooth chracteristic; you have no idea how many times i almost bought the Nokton before i got the A50 1.2.

jsherman999 · 07-04-2008, 08:58 PM

.

The 50-135 is capable of some pretty nice bokeh for a zoom -
below is the 50-135, followed by the same shot with the 77ltd:

50-135 135mm @ f/2.8:

77ltd @ f/2 (cropped):

The 50-135 followed by the 77 again, not quite the same shot though:

50-135 135mm @ f/2.8:

77ltd @ f2:

thePiRaTE!! · 07-04-2008, 11:58 PM

Seriously impressed by the 50-135, wow. Thanks for the shots J, were they at 50/2.8?

jsherman999 · 07-05-2008, 07:08 AM

Originally posted by thePiRaTE!!

Seriously impressed by the 50-135, wow. Thanks for the shots J, were they at 50/2.8?

f/2.8 @ 135mm, actually (I just labeled them now too.)

It actually surprised me a bit - in my mind I think of the 50-135 as having passable
bokeh, but the 77ltd as having great bokeh - I didn't expect them to be pretty much
asthetically equivalent.

I'll have to experiment a bit more, as I remember, under most circumstances the 77
shows better bokeh...

For example, here's how the 77ltd usually renders bokeh, a ghostly/creamy
quality:

f/1.8

.

RiceHigh · 07-05-2008, 07:27 AM

My subjective summary:

RiceHigh's Pentax Blog: RiceHigh's Subjective Ratings on Pentax Lenses on Pentax DSLRs

I have no picture to post typically, you know, though. ;-)

danielchtong · 07-05-2008, 08:54 AM

While on this subject, I would like to know the view of this forum. And that is the relationship of number of blades and bokeh it generates.
I believe that both Vit series 1 and DA200mm have 9 blades. The theory , not my preference or general liking, is that more number of blades the better the bokeh is.
As we all know, this is very subject indeed. This is from Da200mm at F4.5

Daniel

danielchtong · 07-05-2008, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by rfortson

Is this bokeh "creamy" enough?

I'll post the lens later.

Not quite creamy. More like buttery though, Or yummy

Daniel

georgweb · 07-06-2008, 11:59 AM

Hope this was not mentioned before, just another bokeh test :-)
Bokeh Test

If there would be another thread about which lenses are really Sonnar designs, I'd be willing to read it :-)

All the best, Georg (the other)
PS: taunusreiter.de states (somewhere) that for him a true Sonnar has a cemented triplet in it.

danielchtong · 07-06-2008, 12:46 PM

Although part of the image was chopped off , the image has some bokeh punch. I love the color rendition of DA200mm

Daniel

k100d · 07-06-2008, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by georgweb

Hope this was not mentioned before, just another bokeh test :-)
Bokeh Test

that's one of the best bokeh discussions on the internet
the only thing i don't really see is the double-line bokeh in his samples

OrenMc · 07-06-2008, 03:55 PM

I did some stuff a while back and noticed the bokeh from my Sigma 100-300 f/4 and really liked it. So I went out today and took a couple quick shots.
Great thread!

One of the big things that got me interested in macro was the out of focus aspect. I believe it opens a door to much creativity.
This shot is taken with a Sigma 105 macro. Just a typical shot but some nice bokeh.

07-04-2008, 08:58 PM	#36
jsherman999 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,237	*Da 50-135 . The 50-135 is capable of some pretty nice bokeh for a zoom - below is the 50-135, followed by the same shot with the 77ltd: 50-135 135mm @ f/2.8: 77ltd @ f/2 (cropped): The 50-135 followed by the 77 again, not quite the same shot though: 50-135 135mm @ f/2.8: 77ltd @ f2:** Last edited by jsherman999; 07-05-2008 at 07:02 AM.

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07-04-2008, 10:39 AM	#31
thePiRaTE!! Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Calgary, AB Photos: Gallery Posts: 942 Original Poster	Originally posted by k100d after reading this thread, i took some quick snaps around the house to experiment more with the bokeh of the A50 1.2. these photos have no artistic merit. looks pretty good to me, but there are some hard rings if you look closely and some pretty apparent CA if not careful. back to the original post, i think this would be the lens i'd use for bokeh, just because it has the ability to blur almost anything in a very smooth way that lets you highlight certain details. however at 1.2, there is a bit of a "glow" around the focused subject that needs to be carefully used / hidden. oooohhhh... no you di'n't. thats niiiiiiiccceee.... glow and everything. . . . must resist. . . .. . . temptation! that shot hits my buttons. if i'm being honest, it looks quite noktonish! you could probably save your cash if you'de ever considered one, thats what it does best too, very similar looking. Originally posted by Arjay Bee Regarding the number of aperture blades, as shown before is the Isco Gottingen Tele Westanar 135 3.5 M42 that has 15 aperture blades making a perfectly circular aperture at all positions. ...But then macro distances are fairly easy to produce reasonable bokeh. This one is at a more standard 2metres or so: quoted for truth re:macro. of course, closing toward minimum focus distance is a sure fire way to isolate. hard to judge bokeh quality when too close. this pic is nice, smooth, even 'modern' looking, bokeh wise. It brings up a side note for me re:aperture blades. When the lens is wide open, they aren't in the shot - circles of confusion are round on all lenses. And for me, if I'm stopping down - I kinda like having a hexagon or bit of a star burst of light - I'd just as soon design a lens with 6 straight blades. But there it is - subjectiveness sneaking in again! Of all movies, I was watching Rambo the other night, and during the scene when the missionary chick was first pleading with him, there was all kinds of cool hexagonal bokeh, it made me want to find a 6-bladed lens.. . . hey, I think I'll go do that (any suggestions?)

07-04-2008, 11:47 AM	#32
thePiRaTE!! Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Calgary, AB Photos: Gallery Posts: 942 Original Poster	Hey I got an idea about hexagonal bokeh, here's a test shot: Its the Voigtlander 125mm Lanthar with a circular piece of paper with a hexagon cut into the center and stuck after the rear element, hehe.. . well, so much for the search for a hexagonal aperture. FWIW, here is the same subject without the homemade aperture, wide open: Anyways, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

07-04-2008, 01:47 PM	#33
danielchtong Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 885	Originally posted by thePiRaTE!! Hey I got an idea about hexagonal bokeh, here's a test shot: About hexagonal bokeh, this blog likely gave a better illustration as to how it arose and how it could be manipulated - from another fellow in Steve forum. AIC Photography There seems to be thinking that more number of blades the better the bokeh. As you said, it is very very subjective and I will let forum members to judge. Would members like the 8 blades (as shown in the link above above) set up or the 6? Daniel

07-04-2008, 02:59 PM	#34
thePiRaTE!! Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Calgary, AB Photos: Gallery Posts: 942 Original Poster	Great link Daniel - lovely bokeh regardless of aperture! (Personally, I think I liked the octagonal lights best).

07-04-2008, 04:12 PM	#35
k100d Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,911	i'm enjoying this thread a lot here is an article i saw a while back about changing bokeh shapes DIY - Create your own Bokeh \| DIYPhotography.net Originally posted by thePiRaTE!! oooohhhh... no you di'n't. thats niiiiiiiccceee.... glow and everything. . . . must resist. . . .. . . temptation! that shot hits my buttons. if i'm being honest, it looks quite noktonish! you could probably save your cash if you'de ever considered one, thats what it does best too, very similar looking. give in Kelly, give in! i think a bit of that "glowish" look comes from my fiddling with the curves but it's definitely something i should learn to exploit! you're right tho, looking at some Nokton photos, it has a similar smooth chracteristic; you have no idea how many times i almost bought the Nokton before i got the A50 1.2.

07-04-2008, 11:58 PM	#37
thePiRaTE!! Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Calgary, AB Photos: Gallery Posts: 942 Original Poster	Seriously impressed by the 50-135, wow. Thanks for the shots J, were they at 50/2.8?

07-05-2008, 07:08 AM	#38
jsherman999 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,237	Originally posted by thePiRaTE!! Seriously impressed by the 50-135, wow. Thanks for the shots J, were they at 50/2.8? f/2.8 @ 135mm, actually (I just labeled them now too.) It actually surprised me a bit - in my mind I think of the 50-135 as having passable bokeh, but the 77ltd as having great bokeh - I didn't expect them to be pretty much asthetically equivalent. I'll have to experiment a bit more, as I remember, under most circumstances the 77 shows better bokeh... For example, here's how the 77ltd usually renders bokeh, a ghostly/creamy quality: f/1.8 .

07-05-2008, 07:27 AM	#39
RiceHigh Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 1,934	My subjective summary: RiceHigh's Pentax Blog: RiceHigh's Subjective Ratings on Pentax Lenses on Pentax DSLRs I have no picture to post typically, you know, though. ;-)

07-05-2008, 08:54 AM	#40
danielchtong Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 885	While on this subject, I would like to know the view of this forum. And that is the relationship of number of blades and bokeh it generates. I believe that both Vit series 1 and DA200mm have 9 blades. The theory , not my preference or general liking, is that more number of blades the better the bokeh is. As we all know, this is very subject indeed. This is from Da200mm at F4.5 Daniel

07-05-2008, 09:33 PM	#41
danielchtong Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 885	Originally posted by rfortson Is this bokeh "creamy" enough? I'll post the lens later. Not quite creamy. More like buttery though, Or yummy Daniel

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07-06-2008, 11:59 AM	#42
georgweb Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Berlin, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,386	Hope this was not mentioned before, just another bokeh test :-) Bokeh Test If there would be another thread about which lenses are really Sonnar designs, I'd be willing to read it :-) All the best, Georg (the other) PS: taunusreiter.de states (somewhere) that for him a true Sonnar has a cemented triplet in it.

07-06-2008, 12:46 PM	#43
danielchtong Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 885	Although part of the image was chopped off , the image has some bokeh punch. I love the color rendition of DA200mm Daniel

07-06-2008, 12:56 PM	#44
k100d Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,911	Originally posted by georgweb Hope this was not mentioned before, just another bokeh test :-) Bokeh Test that's one of the best bokeh discussions on the internet the only thing i don't really see is the double-line bokeh in his samples

07-06-2008, 03:55 PM	#45
OrenMc Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,901	I did some stuff a while back and noticed the bokeh from my Sigma 100-300 f/4 and really liked it. So I went out today and took a couple quick shots. Great thread! One of the big things that got me interested in macro was the out of focus aspect. I believe it opens a door to much creativity. This shot is taken with a Sigma 105 macro. Just a typical shot but some nice bokeh.