So what older & forgotten lenses will be revived by FF?

osv · 01-25-2016, 02:09 PM

wrt legacy glass, how it looks on crop isn't necessarily a good indicator of how it'll look on ~36mp+ ff, which is probably what the new pentax ff will be... there are even visible differences between 24mp ff and 36mp ff.

most pentax 28mm and up primes will rock on ff... the pentax-m 28/3.5 beats all of the old minolta wides that i've tested, for landscape use.

**Quartermaster James** · 01-25-2016, 02:36 PM

This lens alone is why I am interested in a full frame Pentax.

Originally posted by Igelkotten

I just found a M 85mm F/2.0 www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/SMC-Pentax-M-85mm-F2-Lens.html in a local charity shop. Got it for less than 35USD (I know it was a bargin) in the same deal I also got a Tokina RMC 24mm f/2.8 and a working Pentax ME Super. I tried the lens this weekend and found it to be one of the best so far when it comes to old legacy lenses. Should be even better on a FF in terms of focal length and bokeh. All Pentax A & M legacy lenses up to 135mm that I tried has been just great, the longer I tried has not been up to the expectations I had.

The photo is taken by the window with the M 85mm f/2.0

glasbak · 01-26-2016, 02:38 AM

I think that people who like the manual feel of the M lenses will swap them for the K versions, they have generally a better performance over the complete 24x36 image frame.
Most M lenses which are significantly smaller than their K predecessor have a good center, but mediocre edge and corner performance.

Wild Mark · 01-26-2016, 03:39 AM

Originally posted by glasbak

I think that people who like the manual feel of the M lenses will swap them for the K versions, they have generally a better performance over the complete 24x36 image frame.
Most M lenses which are significantly smaller than their K predecessor have a good center, but mediocre edge and corner performance.

I agree

Most of my legacy collection is either M42 Takumar, K, A, F and FA series. I have one M lens (M100/2.8). While the M series is small and compact there are optical compromises.

CreationBear · 01-26-2016, 07:39 AM

Originally posted by glasbak

will swap them for the K versions

That's a nice insight, I think, though there might be also be a strong carriage trade in A* bling (e.g. the 50/1.2, 85, and 135) and whatever ZK Zeiss's there are still floating around. For myself, I'm especially curious how my K20/4 would fare on FF--the form factor that you mention has me wondering if it could hang with the Zeiss 21mm as a landscape option.

osv · 01-27-2016, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by glasbak

I think that people who like the manual feel of the M lenses will swap them for the K versions, they have generally a better performance over the complete 24x36 image frame.
Most M lenses which are significantly smaller than their K predecessor have a good center, but mediocre edge and corner performance.

that makes sense, because pentax-m was supposed to be the low-price option?? but look at the 28mm primes: http://www.takinami.com/yoshihiko/photo/lens_test/pentax_28-30.html

the 1st version m28/2.8 at f/11 has the exact same rez numbers that the vaunted k28/3.5 has at f/8, for example.

i recently picked up a $40 k28/3.5, because i kept hearing about how good it was, and it does become sharper in the center, at wider apertures, than my m28/3.5... it makes sense for shooting crop.

however, on the a7r, that k28/3.5 is worse on the sides for landscape shooting, it never fully cleans up at any aperture, and by f/10 the center has also deteriorated noticeably; the m28/3.5 is the better choice for big vista shots on ff.

i'm writing that situation off to copy variation with the k28/3.5; indeed, tim devine has noted copy variation with several of those lenses, testing on both the a7r and the a7rii, but i don't think that he's ever looked at the m28/3.5: Legacy 28mm Shootout Redux (A7R II) - FM Forums

what i've done in terms of swapping pentax lenses is to get rid of the pentax m42-mount glass, because it's not as good on ff as the bayonet mount lenses... the only thing that i have left are several classic 50/1.4 taks, but they all have various q/c problems; mild decentering, weak corners on ff, etc.

**gofour3** · 01-27-2016, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by osv

however, on the a7r, that k28/3.5 is worse on the sides for landscape shooting, it never fully cleans up at any aperture, and by f/10 the center has also deteriorated noticeably; the m28/3.5 is the better choice for big vista shots on ff.

It must be your camera or copy of the lens? I've owned the K28/3.5 for 40 years since I bought it new in late 1975 and it performs beautifully on my FF film cameras.

I would rank it as one of my better K-mount Pentax lens.

Phil.

Wild Mark · 01-27-2016, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by CreationBear

I'm especially curious how my K20/4 would fare on FF

I might try and see if I can take some shots for you with this lens on my fathers Sony 7r FF and post. I too am interested.

bjolester · 01-27-2016, 02:42 PM

I once performed a comparison between the K28/3.5 on a Pentax KX film camera with the HD DA15/4 on the K5. The K28/3.5 was shot with Fuji Provia 100F and scanned with a Minolta Dimage Scan Elite 5400 scanner. For anyone interested, the comparison was posted on another Pentax forum:

https://www.pentaxuser.com/forum/topic/pentax-smc-k28mm-f3-5-on-pentax-fullframe-54580

Na Horuk · 01-27-2016, 02:47 PM

I expect the focal lengths that Pentax is missing will be popular. Primes in 24mm, 28mm, 85mm, 135mm..
But honestly, I think some people started buying, hoarding, some lenses thinking their price will skyrocket once the FF comes out. I really doubt this will happen. Even if Pentax sells a lot of FF cameras, most users in this price range will buy modern lenses, not some ancient glass. If you spend $500 on camera, then you will spend $100 on lenses. If you spend $2500 on camera, you will spend $2500 on lenses. Few people will spend their whole budget just on camera. Only those that already have a lot of lenses.

And once the FF comes out, we can expect new lenses, as well. Pentax will produce new glass, Sigma and Tamron, maybe even Tokina, Zeiss, Voigtlander, will start producing more K-mount lenses.. Difficult to justify that M 28mm once Sigma makes a 28mm Art, Pentax makes a new DFA 28mm, and even modern zoom lenses have the same aperture and better optics..

osv · 01-27-2016, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by gofour3

It must be your camera or copy of the lens? I've owned the K28/3.5 for 40 years since I bought it new in late 1975 and it performs beautifully on my FF film cameras.

I would rank it as one of my better K-mount Pentax lens.

36mp a7r is a lot tougher on a lens than any ff film camera could ever be.... same thing when the new pentax ff comes out, a lot of people are going to be in for a big surprise, wrt legacy glass.

i hope that it is a problem with my copy, because it's a disappointment for landscape shooting... my copy would rock for centered objects, tho, i noticed the sharp center in the evf right off the bat, when i was focusing the shot at 14.4x magnification.

no question that k28/3.5 is a stellar piece of glass, if you read that thread link i posted, tim picked it over everything else that he looked at, testing on the best ff cameras available today.

but the takanimi rez tests are also accurate, everything that i've seen with the same tested lenses on my a7r has matched the trends of those rez tests.

so if takanimi says that the cheap m28/2.8 is just as sharp at f/11 as the k28/3.5 is at f/8, it's worth exploring.

thibs · 01-27-2016, 03:01 PM

My K30/2.8 is eagerly waiting for an affordable FF.
What a gem that is...

CreationBear · 01-27-2016, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by Wild Mark

if I can take some shots for you with this lens on my fathers Sony 7r FF

That would be very cool, thanks! You just have to promise not to post any from your K28/2...your New Zealand set has my LBA on low simmer again.

**clackers** · 01-27-2016, 03:09 PM

My copy of the K28/3.5 has no problems edge to edge on FF digital.

People must be careful saying a lens is no good - they're talking only about the performance along the bell curve of the one they own, not everyone else's.

**gofour3** · 01-27-2016, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by osv

but the takanimi rez tests are also accurate, everything that i've seen with the same tested lenses on my a7r has matched the trends of those rez tests.

Yep I have also found the resolution tests accurate as well. Note any of the Pentax 28-30mm wide angle lenses are able to get a resolution of 98 at a specific aperture, so all are "good" lenses.

Originally posted by osv

36mp a7r is a lot tougher on a lens than any ff film camera could ever be.... same thing when the new pentax ff comes out, a lot of people are going to be in for a big surprise, wrt legacy glass.

Not really tougher, but certainly different as these old lenses were designed for the early k-mount film cameras and not for a third party digital camera. I can still shoot some 20 ISO b&w film that can rival your Sony for FF resolution.

http://www.adox.de/Photo/adox-films-2/cms-20-ii-adotech-ii/

Phil.

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01-25-2016, 02:09 PM	#16
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	wrt legacy glass, how it looks on crop isn't necessarily a good indicator of how it'll look on ~36mp+ ff, which is probably what the new pentax ff will be... there are even visible differences between 24mp ff and 36mp ff. most pentax 28mm and up primes will rock on ff... the pentax-m 28/3.5 beats all of the old minolta wides that i've tested, for landscape use.

01-25-2016, 02:36 PM	#17
Quartermaster James Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 653	This lens alone is why I am interested in a full frame Pentax. Originally posted by Igelkotten I just found a M 85mm F/2.0 www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/SMC-Pentax-M-85mm-F2-Lens.html in a local charity shop. Got it for less than 35USD (I know it was a bargin) in the same deal I also got a Tokina RMC 24mm f/2.8 and a working Pentax ME Super. I tried the lens this weekend and found it to be one of the best so far when it comes to old legacy lenses. Should be even better on a FF in terms of focal length and bokeh. All Pentax A & M legacy lenses up to 135mm that I tried has been just great, the longer I tried has not been up to the expectations I had. The photo is taken by the window with the M 85mm f/2.0

01-26-2016, 02:38 AM	#18
glasbak Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Netherlands Posts: 369	I think that people who like the manual feel of the M lenses will swap them for the K versions, they have generally a better performance over the complete 24x36 image frame. Most M lenses which are significantly smaller than their K predecessor have a good center, but mediocre edge and corner performance.

01-26-2016, 03:39 AM	#19
Wild Mark Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Newcastle Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,954	Originally posted by glasbak I think that people who like the manual feel of the M lenses will swap them for the K versions, they have generally a better performance over the complete 24x36 image frame. Most M lenses which are significantly smaller than their K predecessor have a good center, but mediocre edge and corner performance. I agree Most of my legacy collection is either M42 Takumar, K, A, F and FA series. I have one M lens (M100/2.8). While the M series is small and compact there are optical compromises.

01-26-2016, 07:39 AM	#20
CreationBear Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,415	Originally posted by glasbak will swap them for the K versions That's a nice insight, I think, though there might be also be a strong carriage trade in A* bling (e.g. the 50/1.2, 85, and 135) and whatever ZK Zeiss's there are still floating around. For myself, I'm especially curious how my K20/4 would fare on FF--the form factor that you mention has me wondering if it could hang with the Zeiss 21mm as a landscape option.

01-27-2016, 01:12 PM	#21
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by glasbak I think that people who like the manual feel of the M lenses will swap them for the K versions, they have generally a better performance over the complete 24x36 image frame. Most M lenses which are significantly smaller than their K predecessor have a good center, but mediocre edge and corner performance. that makes sense, because pentax-m was supposed to be the low-price option?? but look at the 28mm primes: http://www.takinami.com/yoshihiko/photo/lens_test/pentax_28-30.html the 1st version m28/2.8 at f/11 has the exact same rez numbers that the vaunted k28/3.5 has at f/8, for example. i recently picked up a $40 k28/3.5, because i kept hearing about how good it was, and it does become sharper in the center, at wider apertures, than my m28/3.5... it makes sense for shooting crop. however, on the a7r, that k28/3.5 is worse on the sides for landscape shooting, it never fully cleans up at any aperture, and by f/10 the center has also deteriorated noticeably; the m28/3.5 is the better choice for big vista shots on ff. i'm writing that situation off to copy variation with the k28/3.5; indeed, tim devine has noted copy variation with several of those lenses, testing on both the a7r and the a7rii, but i don't think that he's ever looked at the m28/3.5: Legacy 28mm Shootout Redux (A7R II) - FM Forums what i've done in terms of swapping pentax lenses is to get rid of the pentax m42-mount glass, because it's not as good on ff as the bayonet mount lenses... the only thing that i have left are several classic 50/1.4 taks, but they all have various q/c problems; mild decentering, weak corners on ff, etc.

01-27-2016, 02:20 PM	#22
gofour3 Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 8,090	Originally posted by osv however, on the a7r, that k28/3.5 is worse on the sides for landscape shooting, it never fully cleans up at any aperture, and by f/10 the center has also deteriorated noticeably; the m28/3.5 is the better choice for big vista shots on ff. It must be your camera or copy of the lens? I've owned the K28/3.5 for 40 years since I bought it new in late 1975 and it performs beautifully on my FF film cameras. I would rank it as one of my better K-mount Pentax lens. Phil.

01-27-2016, 02:27 PM	#23
Wild Mark Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Newcastle Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,954	Originally posted by CreationBear I'm especially curious how my K20/4 would fare on FF I might try and see if I can take some shots for you with this lens on my fathers Sony 7r FF and post. I too am interested.

01-27-2016, 02:42 PM	#24
bjolester Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 211	I once performed a comparison between the K28/3.5 on a Pentax KX film camera with the HD DA15/4 on the K5. The K28/3.5 was shot with Fuji Provia 100F and scanned with a Minolta Dimage Scan Elite 5400 scanner. For anyone interested, the comparison was posted on another Pentax forum: https://www.pentaxuser.com/forum/topic/pentax-smc-k28mm-f3-5-on-pentax-fullframe-54580

01-27-2016, 02:47 PM	#25
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	I expect the focal lengths that Pentax is missing will be popular. Primes in 24mm, 28mm, 85mm, 135mm.. But honestly, I think some people started buying, hoarding, some lenses thinking their price will skyrocket once the FF comes out. I really doubt this will happen. Even if Pentax sells a lot of FF cameras, most users in this price range will buy modern lenses, not some ancient glass. If you spend $500 on camera, then you will spend $100 on lenses. If you spend $2500 on camera, you will spend $2500 on lenses. Few people will spend their whole budget just on camera. Only those that already have a lot of lenses. And once the FF comes out, we can expect new lenses, as well. Pentax will produce new glass, Sigma and Tamron, maybe even Tokina, Zeiss, Voigtlander, will start producing more K-mount lenses.. Difficult to justify that M 28mm once Sigma makes a 28mm Art, Pentax makes a new DFA 28mm, and even modern zoom lenses have the same aperture and better optics..

01-27-2016, 02:57 PM	#26
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by gofour3 It must be your camera or copy of the lens? I've owned the K28/3.5 for 40 years since I bought it new in late 1975 and it performs beautifully on my FF film cameras. I would rank it as one of my better K-mount Pentax lens. 36mp a7r is a lot tougher on a lens than any ff film camera could ever be.... same thing when the new pentax ff comes out, a lot of people are going to be in for a big surprise, wrt legacy glass. i hope that it is a problem with my copy, because it's a disappointment for landscape shooting... my copy would rock for centered objects, tho, i noticed the sharp center in the evf right off the bat, when i was focusing the shot at 14.4x magnification. no question that k28/3.5 is a stellar piece of glass, if you read that thread link i posted, tim picked it over everything else that he looked at, testing on the best ff cameras available today. but the takanimi rez tests are also accurate, everything that i've seen with the same tested lenses on my a7r has matched the trends of those rez tests. so if takanimi says that the cheap m28/2.8 is just as sharp at f/11 as the k28/3.5 is at f/8, it's worth exploring.

01-27-2016, 03:01 PM	#27
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	My K30/2.8 is eagerly waiting for an affordable FF. What a gem that is...

01-27-2016, 03:07 PM	#28
CreationBear Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,415	Originally posted by Wild Mark if I can take some shots for you with this lens on my fathers Sony 7r FF That would be very cool, thanks! You just have to promise not to post any from your K28/2...your New Zealand set has my LBA on low simmer again.

01-27-2016, 03:09 PM	#29
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	My copy of the K28/3.5 has no problems edge to edge on FF digital. People must be careful saying a lens is no good - they're talking only about the performance along the bell curve of the one they own, not everyone else's.

01-27-2016, 03:39 PM	#30
gofour3 Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 8,090	Originally posted by osv but the takanimi rez tests are also accurate, everything that i've seen with the same tested lenses on my a7r has matched the trends of those rez tests. Yep I have also found the resolution tests accurate as well. Note any of the Pentax 28-30mm wide angle lenses are able to get a resolution of 98 at a specific aperture, so all are "good" lenses. Originally posted by osv 36mp a7r is a lot tougher on a lens than any ff film camera could ever be.... same thing when the new pentax ff comes out, a lot of people are going to be in for a big surprise, wrt legacy glass. Not really tougher, but certainly different as these old lenses were designed for the early k-mount film cameras and not for a third party digital camera. I can still shoot some 20 ISO b&w film that can rival your Sony for FF resolution. http://www.adox.de/Photo/adox-films-2/cms-20-ii-adotech-ii/ Phil.