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02-09-2016, 05:30 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tonytee Quote
Hello again, Mr. Mee,
I have just spoken with Jason at Advance Camera. He advised me that they are still an Authorized Pentax Repair Center. Now, there are times when they are not able to get the parts needed, since many models come and go rather quickly. Again, he assured me that they are an Authorized Pentax Repair Center (Including Warranty Work) if there are parts available. I have been trading with these folks for years and I have come to know them, their work and their integrity.

Please continue to contact them. Again, I hope this helps.
Thanks, Tony, but Advance isn't on the Ricoh Imaging website for repair services - Repairs | Ricoh Imaging

Only Precision is. It appears Advance may have given you incorrect information. They also have yet to respond to my email.

Thanks though.

02-09-2016, 05:51 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Thanks, Tony, but Advance isn't on the Ricoh Imaging website for repair services - Repairs | Ricoh Imaging

Only Precision is. It appears Advance may have given you incorrect information. They also have yet to respond to my email.

Thanks though.
Well sir, I just got off the phone with Kathy at Advance camera. True, they are not on Ricoh's List, however, they are on Pentax's list as authorized warranty repair center. Also, since the item was damaged, there is no warranty available to cover that situation. Anyway, I hope you will keep Advance Camera in mind as they are a great place to do business with.

Thanks,

Tony
02-09-2016, 08:36 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tonytee Quote
Well sir, I just got off the phone with Kathy at Advance camera. True, they are not on Ricoh's List, however, they are on Pentax's list as authorized warranty repair center. Also, since the item was damaged, there is no warranty available to cover that situation. Anyway, I hope you will keep Advance Camera in mind as they are a great place to do business with.

Thanks,

Tony
That is great to know.
But if a repair center cannot get parts, it makes me wonder to what extent they are truly "authorized".
Pentax has never liked the US for repair service, they used to hold CRIS (their official authorized repair center) camera in the middle of a virtual hostage negotiation where parts would hold up repairs for months at a time.

What happens if they need parts? Do they send it off to Precision to be potentially ruined?
With that, I am concerned about what sort of finger pointing would go on with a fourth party being introduced. It is difficult enough now just communicating between Precision and Ricoh when sending in the minimum of four times (three to precision, one to Ricoh) to get a resolution.

Still, I have several items that need fixing or adjustment but I am dreadfully afraid of sending in to Precision.
I may just send those in to Advance since parts is not likely an issue.
02-09-2016, 09:49 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by amoringello Quote
That is great to know.
But if a repair center cannot get parts, it makes me wonder to what extent they are truly "authorized".
Pentax has never liked the US for repair service, they used to hold CRIS (their official authorized repair center) camera in the middle of a virtual hostage negotiation where parts would hold up repairs for months at a time.

What happens if they need parts? Do they send it off to Precision to be potentially ruined?
With that, I am concerned about what sort of finger pointing would go on with a fourth party being introduced. It is difficult enough now just communicating between Precision and Ricoh when sending in the minimum of four times (three to precision, one to Ricoh) to get a resolution.

Still, I have several items that need fixing or adjustment but I am dreadfully afraid of sending in to Precision.
I may just send those in to Advance since parts is not likely an issue.
That is really a terrible strategy for Pentax to hold back shipment on much needed parts until they get the price increases that they demand. Geeez, talk about a rude awakening for me. If the repair center is unable to get parts, that typically is not a reflection on them. Chances are that the OEM just does not want to spend the money to keep producing spare parts, mostly because of low consumer demand. They may not want their parts sitting in their warehouse for six to 12 months. My question to you is: Why not just go ahead and check around on ebay, amazon or even Craig's list for good to excellent condition used items to replace the items you are having issues with? I have had some really good luck just shopping around Goodwill. I purchased two 50mm Pentax-A lenses, one a 1.4 and the other a 1.7, both for under $15.00. I still have them and they are in excellent condition. Anyway, good luck with your decision. If you do decide to go with Advance Camera, I believe you will be treated as an important asset to their business, and not just someone to provide revenue for them.

Tony

02-09-2016, 10:18 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by amoringello Quote
But if a repair center cannot get parts, it makes me wonder to what extent they are truly "authorized".
This is not unusual and is not just a problem with Ricoh/Pentax. C.R.I.S. was constantly waiting on parts, sometimes for six months or more. I have friends who have sent Canon bodies to them with similar problems. It may come as a surprise, but the U.S. camera distributors often do not maintain much of a parts inventory.

QuoteOriginally posted by amoringello Quote
What happens if they need parts? Do they send it off to Precision to be potentially ruined?
That is not likely to happen if parts availability is the problem, but is very likely to happen if the repair requires a specialized tool to collimate a lens or calibrate something. It is not unusual for shops (even big guys like C.R.I.S. and Precision) to pass repairs through to another shop having specialized tools and/or expertise.


Steve
02-10-2016, 04:53 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
This is not unusual and is not just a problem with Ricoh/Pentax. C.R.I.S. was constantly waiting on parts, sometimes for six months or more. I have friends who have sent Canon bodies to them with similar problems. It may come as a surprise, but the U.S. camera distributors often do not maintain much of a parts inventory.



That is not likely to happen if parts availability is the problem, but is very likely to happen if the repair requires a specialized tool to collimate a lens or calibrate something. It is not unusual for shops (even big guys like C.R.I.S. and Precision) to pass repairs through to another shop having specialized tools and/or expertise.


Steve
Not a matter of waiting for parts, but it was stated that Advance is "not able to get the parts needed".
Pentax no longer ships parts to consumers and apparently doe snot ship to repair centers either.
If they cannot get parts from Ricoh/Pentax in order to perform a repair, then that is a problem.

Regardless, waiting for parts is not an issue. Like you said no one wants to hold that much inventory that may never be used...
Waiting for parts on back order for twelve weeks in not acceptable.
02-10-2016, 06:38 AM   #22
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Whether or not the an authorized repair centre is irrelevant. If they will honour your warranty and do repairs under warranty, it's a moot point. Once again, some guy poking around on the internet is wrong, and does a disservice to an honest business man by thinking reading a few pages on the internet makes him or her some kind of expert on something. Apologies and retractions are in order.

02-10-2016, 07:01 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by amoringello Quote
Pentax no longer ships parts to consumers and apparently doe snot ship to repair centers either
I've heard of this type of business practice with products other than cameras, and not in the US. Is this actually legal? Can a manufacturer force a consumer to use specific repair shops when the work is not under warranty? This would mean that the designated shops (i.e. the ones to which the manufacturer will supply parts) can charge whatever they want.

I find this hard to believe that this is legal.
02-10-2016, 07:02 AM - 2 Likes   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Whether or not the an authorized repair centre is irrelevant. If they will honour your warranty and do repairs under warranty, it's a moot point. Once again, some guy poking around on the internet is wrong, and does a disservice to an honest business man by thinking reading a few pages on the internet makes him or her some kind of expert on something. Apologies and retractions are in order.
How does an unauthorized service center perform "warranty" work?
They may perform work, and if it's fixed then great you're ahead of the game.
But if the repair is faulty and you need to go to the parent company, you will have no recourse to have your issue resolved.

i.e. If I take this to my local friend at Radio Shack who is good at "fixing some stuff", he may get my lens working just fine. Yay! I'm ahead of the game. But if that fails, where do I go next?

I admit that analogy may be a bit over the top and I don't to infer your guy is in the same realm, but do you really believe Ricoh will give me the time of day when I ask about getting my equipment fixed properly or replaced after some non-authorized "service center" broke my stuff? Get real!

Precision is an authorized repair facility. If they cannot do the work, Ricoh (so far) has been able and willing to resolve the issue.


Please don't get all angry and bent out of shape over the real life facts. ... and most of all, follow some very wise words from Wil Wheaton; "Don't be a dick".

---------- Post added 02-10-16 at 09:09 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by bxf Quote
I've heard of this type of business practice with products other than cameras, and not in the US. Is this actually legal? Can a manufacturer force a consumer to use specific repair shops when the work is not under warranty? This would mean that the designated shops (i.e. the ones to which the manufacturer will supply parts) can charge whatever they want.

I find this hard to believe that this is legal.
I do not believe Ricoh is forcing anyone to use Precision if they do not want to for non warranty work.
But I also do not believe Ricoh is required to offer parts to just any "service center", so you may not be able to get your equipment fixed anywhere else.
This is also my main reason that I am not buying any more Pentax equipment until Ricoh gets their service center issues resolved.

If your equipment is no longer under warranty and you trust your service center, go for it. But they may not be able to fix your equipment. At which point they probably send off to Precision.
I do not know how Ricoh would handle the case if Precision could then be unable to fix your gear but returned it as fixed, anyway.
** and this is the big issue I have with the scenario!

Would Ricoh support you and force Precision to fix it again properly? How do you interact with the third party repair facitlity when they hand your broken equipment back to you?

Nothing forcing you to do so, but it opens a lot of questions and potential pitfalls.

I would probably trust someone else with simple adjustment and cleaning or if I knew what the fix entailed and that the service center had parts. Otherwise, not knowing what the issue is, I would probably still go with Ricoh's authorized warranty repair center, even for my non-warranty repairs.

Last edited by amoringello; 02-10-2016 at 07:34 AM.
02-10-2016, 09:12 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by amoringello Quote
apparently doe snot ship to repair centers either.
That is an interesting assumption. I have been in the room with my tech as he talked with Ricoh regarding parts (while still in business, he was an authorized service facility). What they had, they were willing to sell, though not to me directly. Similarly, when Katz Eye was still in business they had no trouble getting official Pentax focus screen shims once Ricoh was convinced they provided calibration as a service.

IIRC, Advance Camera's access to parts was confirmed by a post on another thread. I can call Advance tomorrow to confirm that is still the case. I need to talk with them anyway regarding a repair.


Steve

BTW..."Authorized" merely means that the shop has a working relationship with the distributor. It is no indication of quality of work or training.
02-10-2016, 09:22 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by amoringello Quote
Would Ricoh support you and force Precision to fix it again properly?
Show me once where Ricoh forced Precision to do anything on an out-of-warranty repair.* There are a lot of assumptions being made on this and "the other thread" about Ricoh strong-arming Precision. Just because someone has been talking to two people does not mean those two have been talking with one another. Did it occur to anyone that Precision may have made their own marketing decision to provide damage control by purchasing replacement lenses (refurbs perhaps?) at wholesale?


Steve

* Evidence please, as in an e-mail from Ricoh Customer Support indicating that they had done so.
02-10-2016, 09:38 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by amoringello Quote
I also do not believe Ricoh is required to offer parts to just any "service center"
This is the part that troubles me. If this is correct, then it means that a manufacturer has a right to render my equipment unusable, unless I comply with its wishes. That is blackmail. What if I want to do my own repair? I cannot accept the notion that a manufacturer should have the right to refuse me the right to repair my item as I see fit.

I'm not saying this practice does not exist - I've been told that watch repairers in Asia are sometimes unable to obtain parts from Swiss manufacturers. I'm saying the practice should be illegal.
02-10-2016, 10:21 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by bxf Quote
This is the part that troubles me. If this is correct, then it means that a manufacturer has a right to render my equipment unusable, unless I comply with its wishes. That is blackmail. What if I want to do my own repair? I cannot accept the notion that a manufacturer should have the right to refuse me the right to repair my item as I see fit.

I'm not saying this practice does not exist - I've been told that watch repairers in Asia are sometimes unable to obtain parts from Swiss manufacturers. I'm saying the practice should be illegal.
Once Ricoh closed the parts warehouse, they stopped selling to individual customers. Ricoh is a B2B company.. I was told that directly from Ricoh. I doubt we'll ever see the parts warehouse reopen with them as owners of Pentax. Hopefully, one day, we'll see Ricoh open their own repair facilities though.. or, at the very least, open up repairs to other sites (by opening the gates to parts and Pentax calibration hardware/software).

Further, late last year when I was shopping around, I was told by several repair facilities in the US that they couldn't get parts from Ricoh -- I had to send my lens to Precision. That was the only option. It appears, from their website directing all traffic to Precision, that is still the case. I mean surely if other companies had agreements with Ricoh in the US, they would list them no?

Advance still has yet to get back with me, in writing (email), that they can get parts for my lens (I told them a DA* 50-135mm -- clearly still made and parts available). Even after very politely 'prodding' them twice to let them know I'm still interested and awaiting their response. After the initial message, they went cold. Not a positive sign in my book.. I suspect they really cannot and thus the reason they are not responding. If they can, then that is fine (great, actually) but then it would appear they have the communication pathways of Precision (lacking).

I'm new school, I don't use the phone. I use email/texts and thus have a 'paper' trail to cover my rear. When a company doesn't want to respond in this manner, that sends up red flags.

I guess the ultimate test is for someone to send in their Pentax lens that needs serious new parts and see if they come through. Their prices seem ideal. I still strongly doubt they can get new parts though, despite the couple of claims here they can. Because no one, recently, has claimed to send in their lens -- only reports via phone claiming it is possible. Advance can tell you that on the phone all day, but I wonder if they really checked if they can.

KEH said the same thing.. first they had parts and we had a few reports of people getting their lenses repaired there. I suspect they had/have some parts still in stock (such as SDMs).

When I contacted them about a lens late last year KEH told me, "Unfortunately we would suggest that you send the lens directly to Precision Camera for servicing, as they currently perform all of Pentax's warranty work and have all of the calibration tools for the various lenses. " even though I specifically asked if the repair required would be covered in their flat fee (due to no warranty).

CRIS had this to say: "No, Pentax transported all the equipment, tools and parts to their new service center. I'm sorry we can no longer service any Pentax product. All Pentax repair now go to Precision Camera Repair in Enfield, CT. Thank you, C.R.I.S. Customer Service"

Midwest Camera repair had this to say: "We have been having very difficult time getting parts from Pentax, It would be best for you to contact them directly as a customer. Midwest"

When you contact Pentax directly, they say talk to Precision.

So color me skeptical at this point..
02-11-2016, 04:02 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Show me once where Ricoh forced Precision to do anything on an out-of-warranty repair.* There are a lot of assumptions being made on this and "the other thread" about Ricoh strong-arming Precision. Just because someone has been talking to two people does not mean those two have been talking with one another. Did it occur to anyone that Precision may have made their own marketing decision to provide damage control by purchasing replacement lenses (refurbs perhaps?) at wholesale?


Steve

* Evidence please, as in an e-mail from Ricoh Customer Support indicating that they had done so.
Do you mean by Ricoh paying for my shipping label three times, having it repaired b they "Pro services" (and failed), then finally paying for shipping back to Ricoh itself and replacing my equipment?


Force? OK, perhaps that is a strong word... But Ricoh "allowed" Precision to give it their best and finally gave up and "resolved" the issue.
Yeah, I think Ricoh has something to do with that.
I am not the only one.

FYI, now you're just sounding ignorant or at least argumentative for the sake of arguing.
It is really not becoming to make Ricoh sound like they have no interest or influence over the companies they pay to do their work.

Obviously Precision doesn't care. They are not doing the work. But they are also obviously required to accept it over and over again and feign an attempt at repair.
Ricoh, I believe (hope) is finally realizing the reality of their decisions...

Last edited by amoringello; 02-11-2016 at 04:14 AM.
02-11-2016, 04:52 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Once Ricoh closed the parts warehouse, they stopped selling to individual customers. Ricoh is a B2B company.. I was told that directly from Ricoh. I doubt we'll ever see the parts warehouse reopen with them as owners of Pentax. Hopefully, one day, we'll see Ricoh open their own repair facilities though.. or, at the very least, open up repairs to other sites (by opening the gates to parts and Pentax calibration hardware/software).

Further, late last year when I was shopping around, I was told by several repair facilities in the US that they couldn't get parts from Ricoh -- I had to send my lens to Precision. That was the only option. It appears, from their website directing all traffic to Precision, that is still the case. I mean surely if other companies had agreements with Ricoh in the US, they would list them no?

Advance still has yet to get back with me, in writing (email), that they can get parts for my lens (I told them a DA* 50-135mm -- clearly still made and parts available). Even after very politely 'prodding' them twice to let them know I'm still interested and awaiting their response. After the initial message, they went cold. Not a positive sign in my book.. I suspect they really cannot and thus the reason they are not responding. If they can, then that is fine (great, actually) but then it would appear they have the communication pathways of Precision (lacking).



I'm new school, I don't use the phone. I use email/texts and thus have a 'paper' trail to cover my rear. When a company doesn't want to respond in this manner, that sends up red flags.

I guess the ultimate test is for someone to send in their Pentax lens that needs serious new parts and see if they come through. Their prices seem ideal. I still strongly doubt they can get new parts though, despite the couple of claims here they can. Because no one, recently, has claimed to send in their lens -- only reports via phone claiming it is possible. Advance can tell you that on the phone all day, but I wonder if they really checked if they can.

KEH said the same thing.. first they had parts and we had a few reports of people getting their lenses repaired there. I suspect they had/have some parts still in stock (such as SDMs).

When I contacted them about a lens late last year KEH told me, "Unfortunately we would suggest that you send the lens directly to Precision Camera for servicing, as they currently perform all of Pentax's warranty work and have all of the calibration tools for the various lenses. " even though I specifically asked if the repair required would be covered in their flat fee (due to no warranty).

CRIS had this to say: "No, Pentax transported all the equipment, tools and parts to their new service center. I'm sorry we can no longer service any Pentax product. All Pentax repair now go to Precision Camera Repair in Enfield, CT. Thank you, C.R.I.S. Customer Service"

Midwest Camera repair had this to say: "We have been having very difficult time getting parts from Pentax, It would be best for you to contact them directly as a customer. Midwest"

When you contact Pentax directly, they say talk to Precision.

So color me skeptical at this point..
Mr. Mee, What is the email address for Advance to contact you? What is your full name and physical address? Provide this information for me, and I will call them and find out the status of your request. It is atypical of them to take so long in returning information to you. Thanks, and also, don't be shy about calling them until you get an answer.

Tony
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