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07-04-2008, 08:08 AM   #1
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Canon 450D IQ is not a match for Pentax K10D IQ.

I do not intend this thread to be a Canon bashing. I just want to share my experience from the couple of hours with Canon 450D.

A colleague of mine decided to take the plunge and buy a DSLR. Now we all know that if you go into a camera shop without learning your lesson (researching or googling) you will end up with a Canon DSLR. Well the thing is that my co-worker and her husband researched for a month and they could not agree on which camera to buy.

What I told them is that I am very happy with my Pentax K10D but I don't want to force my opinion on them so they should do their own research. So I told them to go to a camera shop and hold various cameras and pickup the best one they like.

They decided on a Canon 450D together with 18-55 and 55-250 kit lenses, which I am pretty sure was recommended by the camera shop seller.

Today I had the chance to do some shots with it at work and see how it compares to my old trusty but not rusty K10D.

So how much better is the 12 megapixel Canon 450D IQ than my old K10D. All the photos bellow are not post processed except for white balance because the available light in the office was a mixture of daylight and office light.

These are the 100% center crops of the photos shot through a window. Bear in mind that the there were some clouds and the light intensity was changing very quick, thus the difference in exposure.




Pentax k10D kit lens 50-200 @ 200mm f/5.6 crop 100%






Canon 450D kit lens 55-300 @ 200mm f/5.6 crop 100%






Pentax k10D kit lens 50-200 @ 200mm f/8 crop 100%






Canon 450D kit lens 55-300 @ 200mm f/8 crop 100%




I don't know if the bad IQ of Canon was caused by a faulty lens or back/front focusing issue. The lens have built in Image Stabilizer and ultrasonic motor and a plastic mount


Above I compared a cheap and bashed across most of the review web sites Pentax 50-200mm kit lens versus image stabilized, ultrasonic motorized 55-250mm Canon lens. Now we all know that most lenses do not perform very well at their extremes. Well the Pentax 50-200mm lens was used at it's extreme maximum focal length, while the Canon 55-250mm was used at 200mm which is far bellow the maximum focal length and should have achieved better overall IQ.

Here are some more shots taken with Canon 18-55 and Pentax 16-45mm both at 28mm:


Canon 450D kit lens 18-55 @ 28mm f/4 crop 100%



Pentax k10D kit lens 16-45 @ 28mm f/4 crop 100%



Canon 450D kit lens 18-55 @ 28mm f/5.6 crop 100%



Pentax k10D kit lens 16-45 @ 28mm f/5.6 crop 100%


Unfortunately I do not have the Pentax DA 18-55 kit lens to test against the canon kit lens but as we all know at close distance most lenses perform very well, so the disrespected 16-45 should be a close match to Canon 18-55 which according photozone.de quote from the MTF (resolution) part: "The center resolution of the lens is extremely high throughout the tested zoom and aperture range and at its sweet spots it matches or exceeds the sensor resolution of the 8mp base DSLR used for testing."
So we see that we are not dealing with a mediocre lens, but a lens with extremely high center resolution. In comparison Pentax 16-45 was commented only as a lens with a very good resolution.

I know my comparison is little rough but.. Hey.. It's a Canon, and we all know Canon is the best, right?! (just being laconic)


One thing I do not understand. I am not saying Pentax is the best or anything, but tell me why so many Canon and Nikon camera owners and various camera reviewers, camera shop sellers hate or bash Pentax image quality so often? Are they afraid and feel threatened, or is it just pure ignorance?

Thank you for your time and feedback.


Last edited by Voe; 07-04-2008 at 08:25 AM.
07-04-2008, 08:27 AM   #2
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your test is extreamly biased towards pentax


your first two sets of images,

the pentax is shot at 1/320 @ 200mm, i personaly try my best to achieve 2Xfocal length for telephoto shots if sharpness is of concern, even with SR.

yet you shot the canon @ 1/250.



your second set of images

again you shoot the pentax at 1/180, while you low ball the Canon at 1/100 @ 200mm and expect a fair fight?


your third set of images

atleast this time you got the shutter speed to be identical, but now you really decided to push the envelope, anything below 1/30-1/50 handheld is going to be motion blurred unless you take extream care to steady yourself

shooting 28mm @ 1/25 without SR is obviously going to give you a shitty result.

not only that, you pitted a generic kit lens vs the high quality DA16-45!


fourth set,

now you've really done it, 1/10 with SR and high quality glass vs no SR and shitty glass?


gg
07-04-2008, 08:38 AM   #3
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I suppose what we can learn from this is that lens choice is probably more of a factor than body choice...

But it does show also how base starting kits from different brands can differ out of the gate.

If you shoot both bodies with good lenses and good technique there will be no practical difference.
07-04-2008, 08:45 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
your test is extreamly biased towards pentax


your first two sets of images,

the pentax is shot at 1/320 @ 200mm, i personaly try my best to achieve 2Xfocal length for telephoto shots if sharpness is of concern, even with SR.

yet you shot the canon @ 1/250.



your second set of images

again you shoot the pentax at 1/180, while you low ball the Canon at 1/100 @ 200mm and expect a fair fight?


your third set of images

atleast this time you got the shutter speed to be identical, but now you really decided to push the envelope, anything below 1/30-1/50 handheld is going to be motion blurred unless you take extream care to steady yourself

shooting 28mm @ 1/25 without SR is obviously going to give you a shitty result.

not only that, you pitted a generic kit lens vs the high quality DA16-45!


fourth set,

now you've really done it, 1/10 with SR and high quality glass vs no SR and shitty glass?


gg

The first two sets of images are shot in Av mode. I don't think 1/250 is not sufficient for a shot at 200mm even for a non image stabilized lens (unless you had too much coffee.) And considering the image stabilized lens shooting at 1/250 of a second and 200mm is not an issue.

For the second set of images even 1/100 would be sufficient considering the built in lens IS can compensate for up to 4 stops according Canon press release.


All the remaining set of images both cameras were sitting on a sturdy plastic box and there was not any shake. I remind you again that both cameras have SR or IS.


The "generic kit lens has "extremely high throughout the tested zoom and aperture range" acording photozone, and the Pentax 16-45 even though not a kit lens is only considered as a very good resolution lens.
So I think they are a close match.

Regarding fourth set, non of these lenses are shitty, again read Photozone.de review, and again both cameras are sitting on a sturdy box.

Next time just for you I will put the Canon on a tripod using mirror lock up and will use the Pentax K10d handheld to prove my point.

My point in this post was not to bash Canon 450D or any of the lenses. My point was to post the result of a 2 hours playing with both cameras.


Last edited by Voe; 07-04-2008 at 08:51 AM.
07-04-2008, 08:46 AM   #5
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I replied to your DpReivew thread of this I'm suspecting the Canon body has focus issues.
07-04-2008, 08:54 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Voe Quote

Next time just for you I will put the Canon on a tripod using mirror lock up and will use the Pentax K10d handheld to prove my point.
do it.

QuoteOriginally posted by Voe Quote
My point in this post was not to bash Canon 450D or any of the lenses. My point was to post the result of a 2 hours playing with both cameras.
i simply doubt your sincerity in trying your hardest to make this an equal comparison.

also it seems that the last two shots of the canon, if they are in fact off a table, are severly OOF, as only the shittiest of lenses would possibly give you a result like that esp if they were 100% still.
07-04-2008, 08:54 AM   #7
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hmm when I bought my K10D, 16-45 is the kit lens.. so kit lens to kit lens i see it fair, but yes I agree we should try one where all the aperture and shutter speed are the same.

but hey at least 450D got the white balance better than K10D~
07-04-2008, 08:56 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by cputeq Quote
I replied to your DpReivew thread of this I'm suspecting the Canon body has focus issues.
Thanks for that! I suspect that there is a focusing issue too but did not have enough time to prove it as I was at work.
BTW out of courtesy I gave my camera and the 16-45 and 50-200 lenses to me colleague for the weekend. May be she will see the light

07-04-2008, 09:02 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
i simply doubt your sincerity in trying your hardest to make this an equal comparison.

also it seems that the last two shots of the canon, if they are in fact off a table, are severly OOF, as only the shittiest of lenses would possibly give you a result like that esp if they were 100% still.
First I was not trying to make an equal scientific comparison so there is not need to mention my sincerity here. Basically it was a two hours play with a camera which results I decided to publish here.

Second I would politely ask you to stop insulting Canon by calling it's extremely high resolution 18-55 lens "shittiest" which at its sweet spots it matches or exceeds the sensor resolution of the 8mp base DSLR according photozone.de . BTW have you considered a back or front focusing issue instead of blaming the lens?

Last edited by Voe; 07-04-2008 at 09:14 AM.
07-04-2008, 09:36 AM   #10
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Were these JPEG or RAW?

If RAW, done with the same RAW converter?

While I'm glad the Pentax won, before tooting our horn too much we should remove as many potential advantages for Pentax as we can and make things as even as possible. To me, that says to use RAW from both cameras and use the same RAW converter for both.

Although I would be very happy if you do the test you propose (Canon with tripod + MLU vs. Pentax SR handheld) and the Pentax still wins.
07-04-2008, 10:00 AM   #11
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all of them are jpeg.

Look, I don't think it is an image stabilization issue at all. The lack of sharpness of the canon shots looks more like focusing issue that blur from camera movement. In the last 4 images where both cameras were sitting on a box stable. Hey, I can take that shot just sitting a on chair and holding the camera in my hands and will still turn out as good as using the box as a tripod at 1/25.

I come from a P&S Panasonic FZ20 with built in IS, I could easily take pictures at 1/10 and 35mm equiv. without blur. I noticed I can do the same with my Pentax K10D.

Anyway I will have to do a proper test and will try to get a DA 18-55 kit lens.
07-05-2008, 04:47 AM   #12
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Your results are not surprising at all.

I had tried out 450D which produces really mediocre images even with EF 85mm f1.2L.
07-06-2008, 02:20 PM   #13
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I got a chance to try the 450D with a 70-200L lens, to say the least not impressive. To double check the focus I shot at F16 in a studio as well. I can try again with a 50mm F1.8 to make sure but the 450D just makes muddy images to me.
07-06-2008, 04:37 PM   #14
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there have been numerous complaints on the other forum about the XSi AF performance... almost "Pentax" like AF discussions :P
07-06-2008, 06:06 PM   #15
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Wow! Those results are really surprising. For any of you that aren't aware, the "popular" photo magazines are absolutely raving about the XSi; they're acting as if it's God's gift to the camera world. On the front of the July Pop Photo, in big bold letters, it says "Best Rebel Yet--5 top reasons why you must upgrade". BIG FAT HAIRY DEAL!

In an effort not to hurt the feelings of the Canonites I know, I won't mention this thread though.

Heather
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