AF speed with DA* lenses for sports - please share your experience.

normhead · 03-17-2016, 07:05 AM

We are pretty sure Pentax increased the speed at which the screw drive mechanism turns at as AF got better. With the electrical components there's not much you can do.

jeallen01 · 03-17-2016, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by normhead

. With the electrical components there's not much you can do.

Not sure that I agree with you on that as it depends on the design of the components in the lenses, and the current-drive capacity of the bodies.

Given the progressive and substantial lens motor developments by other manufacturers - and the fact that 3rd party in-lens motor lenses in PK-A mount tend to be slower than their equivalent CaNikon (etc.) mount lenses - I suspect that it is the Pentax bodies (at least the older ones) which are the limiting factor, and that the newer Pentax DC-drive lenses have motors which are more efficient and powerful, and can thus focus faster, than equivalent SDM lenses for the same current-draw.

W.R.T the last point above - there's probably something significant in the fact that some SDM lenses have a reputation for stopping working if not used often enough. I think this may relate to the motors being somewhat underpowered for the jobs they do, and thus they get "overworked" when ttrying to focus a lens which has not been used for sometime because of the extra stiction effects, or OTOH has been used a lot, because either condition will shorten the usable life of the motors (search for the "bathtub curve" for failure over time, and then take into account extra wear and tear caused by overwork).

SBeck · 03-17-2016, 12:27 PM

So I suppose a follow up questions should be - does disabling SDM and using screw drive result in a meaningful improvement in speed with these lenses?

normhead · 03-17-2016, 12:51 PM

Lenses like the F 70-210 and Tamron 90 have gear ratios that really crank up the speed on a K-3. What the gear ratios are like in SDM lenses I have no idea.

MD Optofonik · 03-17-2016, 12:55 PM

I've always been under the impression that if one shoots sport seriously Canikon is still the only option. Pentax AF has never been improved to the point that it is equal to its rivals. I've been out of the loop for a few months but I imagine not much has changed in the past year.

**clackers** · 03-17-2016, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by SBeck

So I suppose a follow up questions should be - does disabling SDM and using screw drive result in a meaningful improvement in speed with these lenses?

Certainly did for my DA* 50-135.

I wouldn't hesitate to use it now for basketball, tennis, volleyball or wherever I could get courtside.

jeallen01 · 03-17-2016, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by MD Optofonik

I've always been under the impression that if one shoots sport seriously Canikon is still the only option. Pentax AF has never been improved to the point that it is equal to its rivals. I've been out of the loop for a few months but I imagine not much has changed in the past year.

In practice I think most of us would agree with your basic statements, but be careful to distinguish between the focusing speed that the lens can attain and the ability of the camera body electronics to sense and solidly lock-on to the focus points - it is the latter area where Pentax generally falls down (taking into account what I said earlier about the SDM-specific issues) by comparison with CaNikon.

normhead · 03-17-2016, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by MD Optofonik

I've always been under the impression that if one shoots sport seriously Canikon is still the only option. Pentax AF has never been improved to the point that it is equal to its rivals. I've been out of the loop for a few months but I imagine not much has changed in the past year.

Some Canon models are pretty average, I think you need to qualify that by stating which models you're talking about. The &d mark II seems to come up a lot.

To be of any service, you really need to define the model, and the lens you need for it for sports.

Looking around the web... I'm not seeing a lot of Canon.
Best Digital Cameras for Shooting Sports - Products - Digital Camera Reviews - DigitalCamera-HQ.com - Unbiased Digital Camera Reviews, Prices, and Advice. For the digital camera buyer: comparisons based on reviews from real users; prices, and deals f

I was for some reason under the impression that the Nikon D750 was the bus of the moment.

But the editor's choice at Imaging Resources has the Nion D4S as one of the best, I'm assuming that's because of it's high ISO performance allowing faster shutter speeds in bad light.

I looks like the Canon 7D MarkII is the more affordable option. But the Nikon D7200 is also mentioned. Not surprisingly, they also list a K-3 on with those choices. Imaging resources sees it, Pentax users ignore it, funny.

The grass is always greener.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/WB/WB.HTM?view=dp_sports

**x-country** · 03-18-2016, 09:35 AM

I have experience with the 50-135 and 60-250. I think the 60-250 is more versatile.

About the autofocus I think you could either accept it and learn to control it, work with it or you get another system known for better AF performance.

I have photographed a lot of football (american) and I have learned to optimize performance with what I have. I haven't felt that the AF of these lenses with the K-7, 5 and 3 have failed me.

**clackers** · 03-19-2016, 03:30 AM

Originally posted by x-country

I have experience with the 50-135 and 60-250. I think the 60-250 is more versatile.

About the autofocus I think you could either accept it and learn to control it, work with it or you get another system known for better AF performance.

I have photographed a lot of football (american) and I have learned to optimize performance with what I have. I haven't felt that the AF of these lenses with the K-7, 5 and 3 have failed me.

For motorbike racing this Pentax pro prefers screwdriven lenses:

https://www.ephotozine.com/article/shooting-motorsport-with-the-pentax-k-30-22663

He has no problems doing what he does with Pentax - including tracking.

Saltwater Images · 03-20-2016, 12:46 PM

Thanks for everyones input. I was initially leaning toward the DA*200 but have decided on the DA* 60-250 instead. The versatility of the 60-250 will open it up to more uses and weather sealing is vital. As for the AF speed. I'll work with it because it is at the top end of my budget.

slip · 03-20-2016, 03:50 PM

Good to hear you made a choice. If you prefocus right in front of the intended path the autofocus should be fine

Randy

MD Optofonik · 03-30-2016, 10:40 PM

Originally posted by jeallen01

... focusing speed that the lens can attain and the ability of the camera body electronics to sense and solidly lock-on to the focus points...

You've just described autofocus.

Seriously, I agree the lens/body combo is what needs to be evaluated, not just the body. I sort of thought that would go without saying. Putting a fast focusing $5000.00 lens on $400.00 not so fast focusing body is lunacy.

jeallen01 · 03-31-2016, 01:38 AM

Originally posted by MD Optofonik

You've just described autofocus.

Seriously, I agree the lens/body combo is what needs to be evaluated, not just the body. I sort of thought that would go without saying. Putting a fast focusing $5000.00 lens on $400.00 not so fast focusing body is lunacy.

Not everyone "gets" the "obvious" until someone actually points it out ("lost in plain sight"?).

03-17-2016, 10:01 AM	#32
jeallen01 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2008 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,697	Originally posted by normhead . With the electrical components there's not much you can do. Not sure that I agree with you on that as it depends on the design of the components in the lenses, and the current-drive capacity of the bodies. Given the progressive and substantial lens motor developments by other manufacturers - and the fact that 3rd party in-lens motor lenses in PK-A mount tend to be slower than their equivalent CaNikon (etc.) mount lenses - I suspect that it is the Pentax bodies (at least the older ones) which are the limiting factor, and that the newer Pentax DC-drive lenses have motors which are more efficient and powerful, and can thus focus faster, than equivalent SDM lenses for the same current-draw. W.R.T the last point above - there's probably something significant in the fact that some SDM lenses have a reputation for stopping working if not used often enough. I think this may relate to the motors being somewhat underpowered for the jobs they do, and thus they get "overworked" when ttrying to focus a lens which has not been used for sometime because of the extra stiction effects, or OTOH has been used a lot, because either condition will shorten the usable life of the motors (search for the "bathtub curve" for failure over time, and then take into account extra wear and tear caused by overwork). Last edited by jeallen01; 03-17-2016 at 10:17 AM.

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03-17-2016, 07:05 AM	#31
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	We are pretty sure Pentax increased the speed at which the screw drive mechanism turns at as AF got better. With the electrical components there's not much you can do.

03-17-2016, 12:27 PM	#33
SBeck Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 113	So I suppose a follow up questions should be - does disabling SDM and using screw drive result in a meaningful improvement in speed with these lenses?

03-17-2016, 12:51 PM	#34
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Lenses like the F 70-210 and Tamron 90 have gear ratios that really crank up the speed on a K-3. What the gear ratios are like in SDM lenses I have no idea.

03-17-2016, 12:55 PM	#35
MD Optofonik Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 962	I've always been under the impression that if one shoots sport seriously Canikon is still the only option. Pentax AF has never been improved to the point that it is equal to its rivals. I've been out of the loop for a few months but I imagine not much has changed in the past year.

03-17-2016, 01:03 PM	#36
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by SBeck So I suppose a follow up questions should be - does disabling SDM and using screw drive result in a meaningful improvement in speed with these lenses? Certainly did for my DA* 50-135. I wouldn't hesitate to use it now for basketball, tennis, volleyball or wherever I could get courtside.

03-17-2016, 01:17 PM	#37
jeallen01 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2008 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,697	Originally posted by MD Optofonik I've always been under the impression that if one shoots sport seriously Canikon is still the only option. Pentax AF has never been improved to the point that it is equal to its rivals. I've been out of the loop for a few months but I imagine not much has changed in the past year. In practice I think most of us would agree with your basic statements, but be careful to distinguish between the focusing speed that the lens can attain and the ability of the camera body electronics to sense and solidly lock-on to the focus points - it is the latter area where Pentax generally falls down (taking into account what I said earlier about the SDM-specific issues) by comparison with CaNikon.

03-17-2016, 05:26 PM	#38
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by MD Optofonik I've always been under the impression that if one shoots sport seriously Canikon is still the only option. Pentax AF has never been improved to the point that it is equal to its rivals. I've been out of the loop for a few months but I imagine not much has changed in the past year. Some Canon models are pretty average, I think you need to qualify that by stating which models you're talking about. The &d mark II seems to come up a lot. To be of any service, you really need to define the model, and the lens you need for it for sports. Looking around the web... I'm not seeing a lot of Canon. Best Digital Cameras for Shooting Sports - Products - Digital Camera Reviews - DigitalCamera-HQ.com - Unbiased Digital Camera Reviews, Prices, and Advice. For the digital camera buyer: comparisons based on reviews from real users; prices, and deals f I was for some reason under the impression that the Nikon D750 was the bus of the moment. But the editor's choice at Imaging Resources has the Nion D4S as one of the best, I'm assuming that's because of it's high ISO performance allowing faster shutter speeds in bad light. I looks like the Canon 7D MarkII is the more affordable option. But the Nikon D7200 is also mentioned. Not surprisingly, they also list a K-3 on with those choices. Imaging resources sees it, Pentax users ignore it, funny. The grass is always greener. http://www.imaging-resource.com/WB/WB.HTM?view=dp_sports

03-18-2016, 09:35 AM	#39
x-country Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Frösön (Östersund) Posts: 69	I have experience with the 50-135 and 60-250. I think the 60-250 is more versatile. About the autofocus I think you could either accept it and learn to control it, work with it or you get another system known for better AF performance. I have photographed a lot of football (american) and I have learned to optimize performance with what I have. I haven't felt that the AF of these lenses with the K-7, 5 and 3 have failed me.

03-19-2016, 03:30 AM	#40
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by x-country I have experience with the 50-135 and 60-250. I think the 60-250 is more versatile. About the autofocus I think you could either accept it and learn to control it, work with it or you get another system known for better AF performance. I have photographed a lot of football (american) and I have learned to optimize performance with what I have. I haven't felt that the AF of these lenses with the K-7, 5 and 3 have failed me. For motorbike racing this Pentax pro prefers screwdriven lenses: https://www.ephotozine.com/article/shooting-motorsport-with-the-pentax-k-30-22663 He has no problems doing what he does with Pentax - including tracking.

03-20-2016, 12:46 PM	#41
Saltwater Images Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Newfoundland Photos: Gallery Posts: 501 Original Poster	Thanks for everyones input. I was initially leaning toward the DA200 but have decided on the DA 60-250 instead. The versatility of the 60-250 will open it up to more uses and weather sealing is vital. As for the AF speed. I'll work with it because it is at the top end of my budget.

03-20-2016, 03:50 PM	#42
slip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 2 hours north of toronto ontario canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,535	Good to hear you made a choice. If you prefocus right in front of the intended path the autofocus should be fine Randy

03-30-2016, 10:40 PM	#43
MD Optofonik Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 962	Originally posted by jeallen01 ... focusing speed that the lens can attain and the ability of the camera body electronics to sense and solidly lock-on to the focus points... You've just described autofocus. Seriously, I agree the lens/body combo is what needs to be evaluated, not just the body. I sort of thought that would go without saying. Putting a fast focusing $5000.00 lens on $400.00 not so fast focusing body is lunacy.

03-31-2016, 01:38 AM	#44
jeallen01 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2008 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,697	Originally posted by MD Optofonik You've just described autofocus. Seriously, I agree the lens/body combo is what needs to be evaluated, not just the body. I sort of thought that would go without saying. Putting a fast focusing $5000.00 lens on $400.00 not so fast focusing body is lunacy. Not everyone "gets" the "obvious" until someone actually points it out ("lost in plain sight"?).