Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
04-07-2016, 06:06 AM - 1 Like   #16
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 33,664
QuoteOriginally posted by kernos Quote
In some ways the flaws in old lenses make it possible for the human eye to perceive depth which is counterintuitive, but seems to work. In part, this may be the root of the endless wrangle over whether the Pentax DA Limited 15mm is an average or a great lens. Incidentally, Khong walks the walk, his pictures with the cheap nikkor on his Flickr page are stunning.
I don't know why this should come as a surprise. The human eye is a single lens. Yet you have people who believe that a heavily corrected lens designed to resolve straight lines on a flat plane, unlike the human eye, would look natural.

The more you think about this, the more the stupidity becomes apparent.

Whether or not a line is straight is totally dependant on it being reproduced in a manner where we assume it's straight. Whether the image is corrected doesn't matter. It's the perception of the viewer that counts, not the physical metrics

04-07-2016, 07:03 AM   #17
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 386
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
So true... I recently bought a 44K-4 and must say that I'm really happy... I've shot with it a lot in the past week.

Quite a number of pictures turned out with a marked 3D effect and, while it's almost unusable wide-open (no, I mean really... just for the odd portrait when you're already in ISO3200+ land), it's really warm and pleasant, with some CA but not of the nastiest kinds (I can name a few SMC lenses that have less pleasant CA) and a soft bokeh (yeah, it reads cliché, but it's really soft even when stopped down to f/2.4 or f/2.8, with no serrated edges where the blades join).

The swirl and the soap-bubble edges on the bokeh are the icing on the cake.
I have a Helios 77m-4 on order. While the lens got decidedly mixed reviews on the pentax forum lens reviews, I was blown away by the presence of some of the shots. I was looking particularly at Alexandra Bochkareva, who I believe could produce winners with a clouded over and fungus infected Jupiter 9.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/in_bokeh/15709762310/in/album-72157645132401386/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/in_bokeh/15841187250/in/album-72157645132401386/

There are a few other images scattered over flickr, some non-studio, that have that same three dimensionality to them. Hopefully I'll get a good copy.
04-07-2016, 07:33 AM   #18
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 33,664
I have many K-3 images that have a 3D effect to them. Does the madness ever stop?

I would talk about the ability of those photographers to construct a scene, not the abilities of some lens. Construct the scene, see what you get, if it's not good enough go for some special lens, but if you can't construct the scene and create that special light, you're doing it all for nothing. Some people see the effect of some lens, I see the skills of some photographer.

Especially since the 77 ltd. was constructed for that type of image, I wonder, what is they'd shot with a 77 ltd. Showing us a picture and claiming it was an effect of the lens, maybe , maybe not. With just one image from one lens we'll never know.
04-07-2016, 02:19 PM   #19
Otis Memorial Pentaxian
Loyal Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 34,747
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I have many K-3 images that have a 3D effect to them. Does the madness ever stop?
No...If it were to stop, we would have nothing to comment about.


Steve

04-07-2016, 03:58 PM   #20
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 386
Original Poster
It is, after all, a lens discussion forum:-)

Part of the reason I'm borderline obsessed about this is that I had a near magical lens. Actually I still have it, but a Tokina ATX 90mm macro 2.5 in OM mount is pretty much a paper weight. Creamy bokeh right from 2.5, tack sharp to bitingly sharp stopped down and with a glow that made it look like I knew what I was doing. Yes, I could find the ATX in a PK mount, but at 135mm it is just too long. So I'm looking at 50mm through 70mm lenses just to see what is possible. The sonnars lenses seem to have a lot going for them. The crazy bokeh begins to go creamy by 2.8 , there is center sharpness and the glow seems to be in evidence. So, for $80 I'll see if the Helios 77m-4 and I are simpatico.
04-07-2016, 04:01 PM   #21
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 33,664
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
No...If it were to stop, we would have nothing to comment about.


Steve
Well then, carry on.
04-11-2016, 11:17 AM   #22
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
IgorZ's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,720
I watched a bit of an "Angry photographer" rant about this. Too much swearing and physics, including statement that "Einstein was wrong about light", but he argues that primes are better than zooms because zooms take a rib eye of light and turn it into hydrogenated, hamburgerized McDonald's food of light, which has very little to do with what it was originally. His message, in the few minutes that I watched, was the fewer elements, the better.
04-11-2016, 11:33 AM   #23
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,870
Back in the middle of the 20th century or so a lot of 120 cameras (folders and the less expensive TLR's) used what was called triplets. These were three element lenses of around 75mm focal length (A normal lens for 120 format). Some of these lenses gave wonderful "3D" effects. I have a post WWII German folder that contains a triplet lens. I absolutely loved the images it makes. When cameras started using lenses with four elements, the "3D" effect took quite a hit.. Overall sharpness was better, but the "atmosphere" of the image was lost.

05-25-2019, 10:23 AM   #24
New Member




Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 9
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
So true indeed! I tend to champion vintage and low-class glass and only own a few lenses of recent design. A couple of my favorite photos are these taken with my former-Soviet Helios 44M 58/2...(six element, double Gauss, Biotar-derived)






I attribute the 3-D effect less to the number of elements and more to the lens design. The Biotar/Helios lenses are characteristically center sharp at all apertures with good contrast and fairly soft corners. CA is very well controlled with little or no tendency to spawn purple fringing. Nice and very reasonably-priced lens.


Steve
What 3-D effect? Can't see any in the photo.
05-25-2019, 04:19 PM - 2 Likes   #25
Pentaxian
arnold's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Queensland
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,732
QuoteOriginally posted by gaweidert Quote
Back in the middle of the 20th century or so a lot of 120 cameras (folders and the less expensive TLR's) used what was called triplets. These were three element lenses of around 75mm focal length (A normal lens for 120 format). Some of these lenses gave wonderful "3D" effects. I have a post WWII German folder that contains a triplet lens. I absolutely loved the images it makes. When cameras started using lenses with four elements, the "3D" effect took quite a hit.. Overall sharpness was better, but the "atmosphere" of the image was lost.
Yes, those folder were good.
My first camera was a Kodak Retinette, and I always assumed its triplet was not going to give me as good a picture as either the Retina four or six element lenses. Nearly sixty years later I came to the conclusion that the extra glass was more to flatten the field for wider apertures than enhance the main part of the picture.
Here is a slide taken with the 3 element Retinette in 1961 that makes me realize that three elements can do the job in most cases.
[IMG][/IMG]

And here is the three element Franka Rolfix folder.
[IMG][IMG][/IMG][/IMG]
05-25-2019, 05:17 PM   #26
Pentaxian
kh1234567890's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Manchester, UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,560
The 3D illusion is all in the mind. Nothing to do with the number of lens elements or pseudo-physics. Or which particular East German slave labour camp the lens was made in.


05-26-2019, 11:39 PM   #27
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 382
QuoteOriginally posted by arnold Quote
Yes, those folder were good.
My first camera was a Kodak Retinette, and I always assumed its triplet was not going to give me as good a picture as either the Retina four or six element lenses. Nearly sixty years later I came to the conclusion that the extra glass was more to flatten the field for wider apertures than enhance the main part of the picture.
Here is a slide taken with the 3 element Retinette in 1961 that makes me realize that three elements can do the job in most cases.


Agreed


My favourite "3-element from a folder" is my 10.5cm f/4.5 Trioplan. Mounted into a body-cap and used on bellows it's a little cumbersome to use, but the results are very pleasant.
As for the Reomar, I went to the extent of mounting one on an M42-PK adaptor for use on my DSLR, see here Schneider Kreuznach Reomar 1:3.5/45mm on Pentax K10D , again, not lightning fast to use but the end results can be worth the effort and demonstrate well that not all aspects of modern lenses are totally desirable
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
35mm, 3d, cheap, depth, elements, k-mount, lens, lens element count, lenses, nikkor, pentacon 35mm, pentax, pentax lens, slr lens
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My NEW Favorite "3D Pop" lens - the MOG TRIOPLAN Fenwoodian Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 5 04-02-2017 03:30 PM
I took a knife to the front element of my lens! Albert Siegel Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 13 02-19-2016 01:34 AM
Nature 3D pop ? manntax Post Your Photos! 2 06-09-2015 11:50 AM
How to achieve more 3D pop? biz-engineer General Photography 23 04-04-2015 05:39 AM
Misc 3D pop. GabrielFFontes Post Your Photos! 10 03-24-2013 10:17 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:28 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top