Originally posted by IchabodCrane The value proposition is regional.
In Australia, the Pentax shop is asking an eye-watering $A1100 for the 16-85, and a still-hefty $603 for the 18-135. That's the kind of relativity I had in mind.
On further searching I found a retailer in Perth selling the 16-85 (stand-alone) for $A800. The best price I could find for the 18-135 was $529. The gap is probably narrowing, but still substantial.
Many people still get the 18-135 in a bundle with a camera, and that way it is available for about $300 (compared to body only). I think the 18-135 is a bargain at that price. It's harder to find the 16-85 bundled in that way, but the best price I found (compared to body-only) is $600.
The 18-135 turns up frequently on the private second-hand market for about $A250-350. I have yet to see a second-hand 16-85 in Australia on Gumtree au or ebay au.