Full frame lenses on APS-C bodies

alamo5000 · 06-06-2016, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by weaponx525

but what are the opinions of the 16-85 on a FF body?

Nope.

Don't even consider it. If you go FF then pick lenses for FF.

Cross that bridge when you get to it.

Of course in crop mode it would be fine.

But for the foreseeable future if you're just starting out the 16-85 on a crop body will be more than sufficient.

**pacerr** · 06-06-2016, 04:00 PM

It's ALL nonsense.

Get a body...any body. Get a used DA 18-55 WR (and a DA 50-200 or DA 55-300 if the budget allows) and shoot 'em until you can explain to your spouse/accountant exactly WHY you need a XXXX ... and they agree with you. THEN, and only then, you'll know enough to get what YOU NEED instead of what everyone else wants.

After that second lens purchase you can get in the back of the line behind the rest of us suffering from LBA presuming it's economically feasible. Resist the desire for instant gratification until you understand what you're 'gratifying' for.

Here's a convenient way to explore field of view thanks to Tamron.

Focal length comparison tool, Tamron USA

**jatrax** · 06-06-2016, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by weaponx525

but what are the opinions of the 16-85 on a FF body?

See here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/58-troubleshooting-beginner-help/322980-w...wo-lenses.html

In short, not very useful. Keep it on the APS-C body for a backup, that's what I'm doing. I now have the 16-85 on the k-3II and the 24-70 on the K-1.

Paul the Sunman · 06-06-2016, 04:17 PM

I have both the 16-85 and the 28-105. If I were to use one solely on APS-C, it would definitely be the 16-85. It's a fabulous lens, and the short end is very useful.

The 16-85 does not cover FF at ANY focal length!

Last edited by Paul the Sunman; 06-06-2016 at 05:04 PM.

weaponx525 · 06-06-2016, 06:01 PM

Does the crop mode on the K1 work well with the APS-C lenses? From my impression, it sounds like a $4 k investment for one lens and K1 body.

**clackers** · 06-06-2016, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by weaponx525

I am looking for recommendations. Should I consider the 16-85 mm APS-C designed zoom lens? I am looking for a zoom due to the convenience and I also would like to improve my image quality in that zoom range (currently I own the 18-55 mm kit lens purchased with my K10D). I have a newer K5II body that is my primary body. Thank you in advance for any suggestions

The 16-85 would be a wonderful lens to go with your K5II, Weaponx.

Ignore the Northrups for anything other than basic photography tips. Aperture and focal length are properties of the lens, not the camera.

There is a lot of propaganda, encouraged or even sponsored by the camera companies - to get you to upgrade from APS-C to their more expensive FF product lines.

**BigDave** · 06-06-2016, 06:12 PM

When I first got my K-7 and wanted to get more lenses I decided to take the gamble that Pentax would some day soon come out with a FF sensor camera. Well this year they finally did. It took a few years, longer than I expected, but OK. My gamble was purchasing mostly FF glass during that period. Now some times that works, mostly on the telephoto side, but a great walk around lens I used with the K-7 was a Sigma 24-70 f2.8, which on the K7 would be about 36-105 equivalent, kind of a nice range to work with! Now on the K-1, it is back to the 24-70, so wider on both ends, but not as much "Telephoto" on the long side. It's OK, I also picked up a 35-105 A lens in the tween years, so, back to the original walk around range. For the K-7 I also obtained a 10-20 Sigma for those extra wide shots, and the lens actually works on a K-1 from about 15-20, so lost a little because of vignetting below 15, but still usable.
The point is, FF glass can easily be used on APS-C sensors without any issues. The focal ranges are different, yes, but I've worked with medium format and large format, so the change from one format to another for me is just a matter of course. Most people are not used to this kind of shift. The smaller formats cannot work on the larger formats because of the field of coverage, how wide the light beam is at the back end of the lens. A 50mm lens for a crop sensor is a short telephoto. For a FF, it's a "normal" lens and for medium format (let's say 6x7cm) it is a nice wide angle. But the imaging characteristics (depth of field profile) are about the same. Remember, we have adapters to use 645 lenses on our K equipped camera bodies. The field of coverage is larger, but a 65mm is a 65mm.

One advantage of the FF lenses that Adam eluded to is the "sweet spot". As APS-C sensors are smaller, they're only using the center of the imaging area of the FF lens. The extreme edges are not even close to being in the field of view of the smaller sensors. For this reason, FF lenses can actually ADD some degree of sharpness, but only at the widest apertures. Once you stop down some, then the sharpness from the lens does not change (you are only imaging the subject through the center portion of the lens for both sensor formats). But at the largest apertures you still get the benefit of more light, even if the light is not falling onto the sensor proper. As long as the internals of the camera baffle and keep the extra light from bouncing around and to the sensor, which they have to do quite well in any case, you are good for launch!

If you are planning on going FF in the future for any reason, then plan ahead now. Just keep the door open for those extreme W/A lenses for the APS-C sensors.

Sandy Hancock · 06-06-2016, 07:06 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by weaponx525

Does the crop mode on the K1 work well with the APS-C lenses?

It works brilliantly. I love it with my DA*16-50 - so much that I have decided not to get DFA24-70 at this stage.

Back to your original question, I reckon the 28-105 will make an excellent normal to telephoto on a crop camera, just don't expect it to be a wide angle at the short end. You will have the advantage of being future-proof if you choose to switch to full frame

weaponx525 · 06-06-2016, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by BigDave

When I first got my K-7 and wanted to get more lenses I decided to take the gamble that Pentax would some day soon come out with a FF sensor camera. Well this year they finally did. It took a few years, longer than I expected, but OK. My gamble was purchasing mostly FF glass during that period. Now some times that works, mostly on the telephoto side, but a great walk around lens I used with the K-7 was a Sigma 24-70 f2.8, which on the K7 would be about 36-105 equivalent, kind of a nice range to work with! Now on the K-1, it is back to the 24-70, so wider on both ends, but not as much "Telephoto" on the long side. It's OK, I also picked up a 35-105 A lens in the tween years, so, back to the original walk around range. For the K-7 I also obtained a 10-20 Sigma for those extra wide shots, and the lens actually works on a K-1 from about 15-20, so lost a little because of vignetting below 15, but still usable.
The point is, FF glass can easily be used on APS-C sensors without any issues. The focal ranges are different, yes, but I've worked with medium format and large format, so the change from one format to another for me is just a matter of course. Most people are not used to this kind of shift. The smaller formats cannot work on the larger formats because of the field of coverage, how wide the light beam is at the back end of the lens. A 50mm lens for a crop sensor is a short telephoto. For a FF, it's a "normal" lens and for medium format (let's say 6x7cm) it is a nice wide angle. But the imaging characteristics (depth of field profile) are about the same. Remember, we have adapters to use 645 lenses on our K equipped camera bodies. The field of coverage is larger, but a 65mm is a 65mm.

One advantage of the FF lenses that Adam eluded to is the "sweet spot". As APS-C sensors are smaller, they're only using the center of the imaging area of the FF lens. The extreme edges are not even close to being in the field of view of the smaller sensors. For this reason, FF lenses can actually ADD some degree of sharpness, but only at the widest apertures. Once you stop down some, then the sharpness from the lens does not change (you are only imaging the subject through the center portion of the lens for both sensor formats). But at the largest apertures you still get the benefit of more light, even if the light is not falling onto the sensor proper. As long as the internals of the camera baffle and keep the extra light from bouncing around and to the sensor, which they have to do quite well in any case, you are good for launch!

If you are planning on going FF in the future for any reason, then plan ahead now. Just keep the door open for those extreme W/A lenses for the APS-C sensors.

I don't quite understand what is meant by keeping the door open for those extreme W/A lenses for the APS-C sensors.

---------- Post added 06-06-2016 at 07:33 PM ----------

I actually own a 50 mm f1. 4 and it's a great lens. I do find the focal length a little tight indoors. I suspect a 35 mm would be perfect. Since I already own the DA 12-24 I figured the 28-105 would be a good addition and it's also WR. I don't quite know if it is much better than the 16-85, and they are both $500 right now at bhpotovideo

Eyewanders · 06-06-2016, 08:03 PM

This ENTIRE thread is precisely why I only ever purchased a grand total of 2 DA lenses for Pentax digis other than the very first kit that came with my K100D Super years ago... The only one I have left is the 50-135 which i've not been able to get myself to part with.

It's always about the glass.

**UncleVanya** · 06-06-2016, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by chickentender

This ENTIRE thread is precisely why I only ever purchased a grand total of 2 DA lenses for Pentax digis other than the very first kit that came with my K100D Super years ago... The only one I have left is the 50-135 which i've not been able to get myself to part with.

It's always about the glass.

Well we agree on the last statement. But you have missed some fine glass if you stayed away from the DA lenses.

Eyewanders · 06-06-2016, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by UncleVanya

Well we agree on the last statement. But you have missed some fine glass if you stayed away from the DA lenses.

I've had plenty to be covered and then some. Have had the 50-135 this whole time, and the DA15 for quite a while. And many many others (not DA) plus a "rotating tap" as it were. Never have felt any "missing" sensation. I know very well there are a number of other excellent DAs, I just shoot a ton of film and crossover has been important.

**UncleVanya** · 06-06-2016, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by chickentender

I just shoot a ton of film and crossover has been important.

That is rather important info you left out! LOL - Then of course you needed FF lenses.

**BigDave** · 06-06-2016, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by weaponx525

I don't quite understand what is meant by keeping the door open for those extreme W/A lenses for the APS-C sensors.

Quite simply, if a person is going to start with an APS-C sensor camera, but plan to get a FF sensor camera in the future, go for the FF glass now as much as you can but keep yours eyes open for that 10-20 or 12-24 lens for the APS-C sensor camera when the time and budget allow.

Eyewanders · 06-06-2016, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by UncleVanya

That is rather important info you left out! LOL - Then of course you needed FF lenses.

Yes. Yes, that was a useful tidbit eh?

That, and I've never *needed* AF, and generally prefer to manual even on those that have it if they do it well quite a bit of the time. But this was always in my mind... the *hopeful* eventuality of a D-FF as well, and simply not wanting to *stuck* with glass only useful on APS-C (as the 50-135 is). Little did I know they'd offer a crop mode. Patience has paid off for many around here.

06-06-2016, 06:01 PM	#20
weaponx525 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 138 Original Poster	Does the crop mode on the K1 work well with the APS-C lenses? From my impression, it sounds like a $4 k investment for one lens and K1 body. Last edited by weaponx525; 06-06-2016 at 06:33 PM.

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06-06-2016, 03:52 PM	#16
alamo5000 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 2,962	Originally posted by weaponx525 but what are the opinions of the 16-85 on a FF body? Nope. Don't even consider it. If you go FF then pick lenses for FF. Cross that bridge when you get to it. Of course in crop mode it would be fine. But for the foreseeable future if you're just starting out the 16-85 on a crop body will be more than sufficient.

06-06-2016, 04:00 PM	#17
pacerr Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Paris, TN Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,350	It's ALL nonsense. Get a body...any body. Get a used DA 18-55 WR (and a DA 50-200 or DA 55-300 if the budget allows) and shoot 'em until you can explain to your spouse/accountant exactly WHY you need a XXXX ... and they agree with you. THEN, and only then, you'll know enough to get what YOU NEED instead of what everyone else wants. After that second lens purchase you can get in the back of the line behind the rest of us suffering from LBA presuming it's economically feasible. Resist the desire for instant gratification until you understand what you're 'gratifying' for. Here's a convenient way to explore field of view thanks to Tamron. Focal length comparison tool, Tamron USA

06-06-2016, 04:05 PM	#18
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by weaponx525 but what are the opinions of the 16-85 on a FF body? See here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/58-troubleshooting-beginner-help/322980-w...wo-lenses.html In short, not very useful. Keep it on the APS-C body for a backup, that's what I'm doing. I now have the 16-85 on the k-3II and the 24-70 on the K-1.

06-06-2016, 04:17 PM	#19
Paul the Sunman Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,846	I have both the 16-85 and the 28-105. If I were to use one solely on APS-C, it would definitely be the 16-85. It's a fabulous lens, and the short end is very useful. The 16-85 does not cover FF at ANY focal length! Last edited by Paul the Sunman; 06-06-2016 at 05:04 PM.

06-06-2016, 06:07 PM	#21
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by weaponx525 I am looking for recommendations. Should I consider the 16-85 mm APS-C designed zoom lens? I am looking for a zoom due to the convenience and I also would like to improve my image quality in that zoom range (currently I own the 18-55 mm kit lens purchased with my K10D). I have a newer K5II body that is my primary body. Thank you in advance for any suggestions The 16-85 would be a wonderful lens to go with your K5II, Weaponx. Ignore the Northrups for anything other than basic photography tips. Aperture and focal length are properties of the lens, not the camera. There is a lot of propaganda, encouraged or even sponsored by the camera companies - to get you to upgrade from APS-C to their more expensive FF product lines.

06-06-2016, 06:12 PM	#22
BigDave Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Hudson Valley, NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,626	When I first got my K-7 and wanted to get more lenses I decided to take the gamble that Pentax would some day soon come out with a FF sensor camera. Well this year they finally did. It took a few years, longer than I expected, but OK. My gamble was purchasing mostly FF glass during that period. Now some times that works, mostly on the telephoto side, but a great walk around lens I used with the K-7 was a Sigma 24-70 f2.8, which on the K7 would be about 36-105 equivalent, kind of a nice range to work with! Now on the K-1, it is back to the 24-70, so wider on both ends, but not as much "Telephoto" on the long side. It's OK, I also picked up a 35-105 A lens in the tween years, so, back to the original walk around range. For the K-7 I also obtained a 10-20 Sigma for those extra wide shots, and the lens actually works on a K-1 from about 15-20, so lost a little because of vignetting below 15, but still usable. The point is, FF glass can easily be used on APS-C sensors without any issues. The focal ranges are different, yes, but I've worked with medium format and large format, so the change from one format to another for me is just a matter of course. Most people are not used to this kind of shift. The smaller formats cannot work on the larger formats because of the field of coverage, how wide the light beam is at the back end of the lens. A 50mm lens for a crop sensor is a short telephoto. For a FF, it's a "normal" lens and for medium format (let's say 6x7cm) it is a nice wide angle. But the imaging characteristics (depth of field profile) are about the same. Remember, we have adapters to use 645 lenses on our K equipped camera bodies. The field of coverage is larger, but a 65mm is a 65mm. One advantage of the FF lenses that Adam eluded to is the "sweet spot". As APS-C sensors are smaller, they're only using the center of the imaging area of the FF lens. The extreme edges are not even close to being in the field of view of the smaller sensors. For this reason, FF lenses can actually ADD some degree of sharpness, but only at the widest apertures. Once you stop down some, then the sharpness from the lens does not change (you are only imaging the subject through the center portion of the lens for both sensor formats). But at the largest apertures you still get the benefit of more light, even if the light is not falling onto the sensor proper. As long as the internals of the camera baffle and keep the extra light from bouncing around and to the sensor, which they have to do quite well in any case, you are good for launch! If you are planning on going FF in the future for any reason, then plan ahead now. Just keep the door open for those extreme W/A lenses for the APS-C sensors.

06-06-2016, 07:06 PM - 2 Likes	#23
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,275	Originally posted by weaponx525 Does the crop mode on the K1 work well with the APS-C lenses? It works brilliantly. I love it with my DA*16-50 - so much that I have decided not to get DFA24-70 at this stage. Back to your original question, I reckon the 28-105 will make an excellent normal to telephoto on a crop camera, just don't expect it to be a wide angle at the short end. You will have the advantage of being future-proof if you choose to switch to full frame

06-06-2016, 07:29 PM	#24
weaponx525 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 138 Original Poster	Originally posted by BigDave When I first got my K-7 and wanted to get more lenses I decided to take the gamble that Pentax would some day soon come out with a FF sensor camera. Well this year they finally did. It took a few years, longer than I expected, but OK. My gamble was purchasing mostly FF glass during that period. Now some times that works, mostly on the telephoto side, but a great walk around lens I used with the K-7 was a Sigma 24-70 f2.8, which on the K7 would be about 36-105 equivalent, kind of a nice range to work with! Now on the K-1, it is back to the 24-70, so wider on both ends, but not as much "Telephoto" on the long side. It's OK, I also picked up a 35-105 A lens in the tween years, so, back to the original walk around range. For the K-7 I also obtained a 10-20 Sigma for those extra wide shots, and the lens actually works on a K-1 from about 15-20, so lost a little because of vignetting below 15, but still usable. The point is, FF glass can easily be used on APS-C sensors without any issues. The focal ranges are different, yes, but I've worked with medium format and large format, so the change from one format to another for me is just a matter of course. Most people are not used to this kind of shift. The smaller formats cannot work on the larger formats because of the field of coverage, how wide the light beam is at the back end of the lens. A 50mm lens for a crop sensor is a short telephoto. For a FF, it's a "normal" lens and for medium format (let's say 6x7cm) it is a nice wide angle. But the imaging characteristics (depth of field profile) are about the same. Remember, we have adapters to use 645 lenses on our K equipped camera bodies. The field of coverage is larger, but a 65mm is a 65mm. One advantage of the FF lenses that Adam eluded to is the "sweet spot". As APS-C sensors are smaller, they're only using the center of the imaging area of the FF lens. The extreme edges are not even close to being in the field of view of the smaller sensors. For this reason, FF lenses can actually ADD some degree of sharpness, but only at the widest apertures. Once you stop down some, then the sharpness from the lens does not change (you are only imaging the subject through the center portion of the lens for both sensor formats). But at the largest apertures you still get the benefit of more light, even if the light is not falling onto the sensor proper. As long as the internals of the camera baffle and keep the extra light from bouncing around and to the sensor, which they have to do quite well in any case, you are good for launch! If you are planning on going FF in the future for any reason, then plan ahead now. Just keep the door open for those extreme W/A lenses for the APS-C sensors. I don't quite understand what is meant by keeping the door open for those extreme W/A lenses for the APS-C sensors. ---------- Post added 06-06-2016 at 07:33 PM ---------- I actually own a 50 mm f1. 4 and it's a great lens. I do find the focal length a little tight indoors. I suspect a 35 mm would be perfect. Since I already own the DA 12-24 I figured the 28-105 would be a good addition and it's also WR. I don't quite know if it is much better than the 16-85, and they are both $500 right now at bhpotovideo

06-06-2016, 08:03 PM	#25
Eyewanders Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Land of the Salish Sea Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,343	This ENTIRE thread is precisely why I only ever purchased a grand total of 2 DA lenses for Pentax digis other than the very first kit that came with my K100D Super years ago... The only one I have left is the 50-135 which i've not been able to get myself to part with. It's always about the glass.

06-06-2016, 08:11 PM	#26
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,445	Originally posted by chickentender This ENTIRE thread is precisely why I only ever purchased a grand total of 2 DA lenses for Pentax digis other than the very first kit that came with my K100D Super years ago... The only one I have left is the 50-135 which i've not been able to get myself to part with. It's always about the glass. Well we agree on the last statement. But you have missed some fine glass if you stayed away from the DA lenses.

06-06-2016, 08:15 PM	#27
Eyewanders Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Land of the Salish Sea Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,343	Originally posted by UncleVanya Well we agree on the last statement. But you have missed some fine glass if you stayed away from the DA lenses. I've had plenty to be covered and then some. Have had the 50-135 this whole time, and the DA15 for quite a while. And many many others (not DA) plus a "rotating tap" as it were. Never have felt any "missing" sensation. I know very well there are a number of other excellent DAs, I just shoot a ton of film and crossover has been important.

06-06-2016, 08:21 PM	#28
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,445	Originally posted by chickentender I just shoot a ton of film and crossover has been important. That is rather important info you left out! LOL - Then of course you needed FF lenses.

06-06-2016, 08:44 PM	#29
BigDave Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Hudson Valley, NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,626	Originally posted by weaponx525 I don't quite understand what is meant by keeping the door open for those extreme W/A lenses for the APS-C sensors. Quite simply, if a person is going to start with an APS-C sensor camera, but plan to get a FF sensor camera in the future, go for the FF glass now as much as you can but keep yours eyes open for that 10-20 or 12-24 lens for the APS-C sensor camera when the time and budget allow.

06-06-2016, 09:05 PM	#30
Eyewanders Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Land of the Salish Sea Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,343	Originally posted by UncleVanya That is rather important info you left out! LOL - Then of course you needed FF lenses. Yes. Yes, that was a useful tidbit eh? That, and I've never needed AF, and generally prefer to manual even on those that have it if they do it well quite a bit of the time. But this was always in my mind... the hopeful eventuality of a D-FF as well, and simply not wanting to stuck with glass only useful on APS-C (as the 50-135 is). Little did I know they'd offer a crop mode. Patience has paid off for many around here.