Pentax lags in 3rd party FF lens availability

beholder3 · 07-01-2016, 12:42 AM

LOL.

They should do this. They should do that. And I whine.

osv · 07-01-2016, 09:15 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Barry Pearson

I've been using the K-1 for action photography a lot over the last 2 months, with long lenses, and I rate it as very good at least.

i like those action photos: Photos of "Power and Speed". I love my K-1!: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

sony owners get the same b.s. comments about shooting action... you can't do this, you can't do that, it's only good for landscapes, blah blah

when someone starts whining like that, it just proves that they don't know how to use a camera.

---------- Post added 07-01-16 at 09:21 AM ----------

Originally posted by Paul the Sunman

There's a very positive preliminary review on Lenstip. They do look interesting. "Neutrino coating" though .... groan.

lol... it's star wars technology!

if they can turn out better q.c. than what samyang is offering, those lenses could be a real home run.

i thought that it was ironic that here we are in a thread about no 3rd party glass for pentax, when in fact it's sony that's getting the cold shoulder with these lenses, not pentax.

**Digitalis** · 07-01-2016, 11:47 PM

Originally posted by Paul the Sunman

"Crap" by a professional's measure may be "perfectly acceptable" to many amateurs. And choice.

and those people will end up with the pictures that equal the gutless optical wonders they use.

zapp · 07-02-2016, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by Paul the Sunman

A quick check on B&H shows 34 off-brand FF lenses available for Pentax K-mount. For comparison, there are 110 for Canon and 111 for Nikon.

I believe this is a major inhibitor for general uptake of the K1. Intrinsically, it's an excellent camera, but why buy into the Pentax FF eco-system with such limited (and often ageing) 3rd party support? The new Pentax FF zooms are great, though expensive and large. They won't suit everyone, or cover every need.

So, perhaps PF members would like to nominate which 3rd party FF lens they would be most keen to see in K-mount (that is not already available). I'll start the ball rolling with the Sigma 150-600 Sport (yeh, I know, large and expensive).

Pentax lacks Pentax FF designs that are less than 15 years of age. 70-200/2.8 is cool, what's next from Pentax (not Tamron)?

Kunzite · 07-02-2016, 12:00 PM - **1 Like**

Except for the D FA* 70-200, and the D FA 150-450, and the D FA 28-105, and the DA 560mm, and the DA* 300mm, and the DA*200mm, and the D FA 50mm macro, and the D FA 100mm macro, what less-than-15-years FF designs have the Pentax ever done for us?

Barry Pearson · 07-02-2016, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Except for the D FA* 70-200, and the D FA 150-450, and the D FA 28-105, and the DA 560mm, and the DA* 300mm, and the DA*200mm, and the D FA 50mm macro, and the D FA 100mm macro, what less-than-15-years FF designs have the Pentax ever done for us?

DA* 55mm f/1.4?

It is certainly an FF design!

**monochrome** · 07-02-2016, 01:19 PM

Let's put the onus where it should be. *

Third-Party makers lag in K-mount availability.

* KAF4 will solve the problem of third-party lenses in K-mount.

Last edited by monochrome; 07-02-2016 at 02:15 PM.

Kunzite · 07-02-2016, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by Barry Pearson

DA* 55mm f/1.4?

It is certainly an FF design!

So was the 60-250, except they put a baffle in there. Removable, if you use the Force

The DA 70mm Limited might work well, too.

Imp · 07-02-2016, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by Barry Pearson

what less-than-15-years FF designs have the Pentax ever done for us?

Quote:

DA* 55mm f/1.4?

Haha! Perfect response!

That was a great part of the movie.

Kunzite · 07-02-2016, 02:28 PM

Oh, DA* 55mm f/1.4? Shut up!

Paul the Sunman · 07-02-2016, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

Let's put the onus where it should be. *

Third-Party makers lag in K-mount availability.

* KAF4 will solve the problem of third-party lenses in K-mount.

In practice, there has to be a business case for offering K-mount versions of lenses. Pentax, under various ownership, has let its user base run down over many years, and missed the FF train entirely until recently. It has not been worth the efforts of Sigma and Tamron to service the K-mount market with new lenses.

Under Ricoh things have been turned around to some extent, but the lack of 3rd party lens support makes the hole out of which they must climb even deeper.

Sorry, I don't get the KAF4 point. How will it solve the problem?

Imp · 07-02-2016, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Oh, DA* 55mm f/1.4? Shut up!

Did a quick mock-up of the scenario in photoshop

Unfortunately only the middle three D-FA lenses seem to blend in to the scene.

---------- Post added 07-02-16 at 05:47 PM ----------

Originally posted by Paul the Sunman

Sorry, I don't get the KAF4 point. How will it solve the problem?

Because the KAF4 equivalent system is available in Canikon mounts, all Canon lenses are like that, and Nikon is shifting (or so I believe).
Now take Sigma, for example - their lenses have electronic aperture control for Canikon bodies, and then they have to spend R&D money to modify that system for Pentax - now it should be easier for them, and therefore a better incentive to produce K-mount lenses.

**monochrome** · 07-02-2016, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by Paul the Sunman

In practice, there has to be a business case for offering K-mount versions of lenses. Pentax, under various ownership, has let its user base run down over many years, and missed the FF train entirely until recently. It has not been worth the efforts of Sigma and Tamron to service the K-mount market with new lenses.

Under Ricoh things have been turned around to some extent, but the lack of 3rd party lens support makes the hole out of which they must climb even deeper.

Sorry, I don't get the KAF4 point. How will it solve the problem?

This is my supposition:

The new KAF4 mount is electro-magnetic aperture control - there's no mechanical aperture lever required. I don't see a screwdrive coupler either. Sigma has said right along it is the economics of making the mechanical K-mount that is cost-prohibitive. Putting an electronic K-mount on the hind end of a Sigma lens would apparently be easy-peasy, ergo (for K-3ll, K-S1, K-S2, probably K-1 and K-70) 3-P availabilty problem solved.

DPReview mount image

Barry Pearson · 07-02-2016, 11:48 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

So was the 60-250, except they put a baffle in there. Removable, if you use the Force

The DA 70mm Limited might work well, too.

I think I saw a comment from Asahi Man that although they designed the 60-250mm as an FF lens, they changed the design before releasing it. Yes, I've tested that it actually covers the FF frame, with the main problem being the vignetting caused by the baffle. But it may not be as good as it could have been.

Now that I've switched comprehensively to FF, the future of all my APS-C equipment is under scrutiny. Since I have no use for the 60-250mm as a pure APS-C lens, I think I intend to remove the baffle. I'I do have use for a 1-kilogram FF lens which I know from experience is OK for action photography.

Barry Pearson · 07-03-2016, 03:38 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

The DA 70mm Limited might work well, too.

I keep seeing reference to the Pentax HD 70mm Limited as a good FF lens. How good is it at wide-ish apertures?

I need one or more convenient FF lenses for lower-light conditions. I'm expecting to see one or more in 2017 or later.

SRS currently has a £100 reduction on that lens!

While the D FA 28-105mm f/3.5-f/5.6 is a lovely lens, my (ongoing) tests suggest that it becomes f/4 at about 31mm, f/4.5 at about 46mm, and f/5.6 at about 75mm.

07-02-2016, 02:44 PM	#27
Imp Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Washington, DC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,749	Originally posted by Kunzite Oh, DA* 55mm f/1.4? Shut up! Did a quick mock-up of the scenario in photoshop Unfortunately only the middle three D-FA lenses seem to blend in to the scene. ---------- Post added 07-02-16 at 05:47 PM ---------- Originally posted by Paul the Sunman Sorry, I don't get the KAF4 point. How will it solve the problem? Because the KAF4 equivalent system is available in Canikon mounts, all Canon lenses are like that, and Nikon is shifting (or so I believe). Now take Sigma, for example - their lenses have electronic aperture control for Canikon bodies, and then they have to spend R&D money to modify that system for Pentax - now it should be easier for them, and therefore a better incentive to produce K-mount lenses. Attached Images

07-02-2016, 03:03 PM	#28
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Paul the Sunman In practice, there has to be a business case for offering K-mount versions of lenses. Pentax, under various ownership, has let its user base run down over many years, and missed the FF train entirely until recently. It has not been worth the efforts of Sigma and Tamron to service the K-mount market with new lenses. Under Ricoh things have been turned around to some extent, but the lack of 3rd party lens support makes the hole out of which they must climb even deeper. Sorry, I don't get the KAF4 point. How will it solve the problem? This is my supposition: The new KAF4 mount is electro-magnetic aperture control - there's no mechanical aperture lever required. I don't see a screwdrive coupler either. Sigma has said right along it is the economics of making the mechanical K-mount that is cost-prohibitive. Putting an electronic K-mount on the hind end of a Sigma lens would apparently be easy-peasy, ergo (for K-3ll, K-S1, K-S2, probably K-1 and K-70) 3-P availabilty problem solved. DPReview mount image Last edited by monochrome; 07-02-2016 at 04:42 PM.

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07-01-2016, 12:42 AM	#16
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	LOL. They should do this. They should do that. And I whine.

07-01-2016, 09:15 AM - 1 Like	#17
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by Barry Pearson I've been using the K-1 for action photography a lot over the last 2 months, with long lenses, and I rate it as very good at least. i like those action photos: Photos of "Power and Speed". I love my K-1!: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review sony owners get the same b.s. comments about shooting action... you can't do this, you can't do that, it's only good for landscapes, blah blah when someone starts whining like that, it just proves that they don't know how to use a camera. ---------- Post added 07-01-16 at 09:21 AM ---------- Originally posted by Paul the Sunman There's a very positive preliminary review on Lenstip. They do look interesting. "Neutrino coating" though .... groan. lol... it's star wars technology! if they can turn out better q.c. than what samyang is offering, those lenses could be a real home run. i thought that it was ironic that here we are in a thread about no 3rd party glass for pentax, when in fact it's sony that's getting the cold shoulder with these lenses, not pentax.

07-01-2016, 11:47 PM	#18
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by Paul the Sunman "Crap" by a professional's measure may be "perfectly acceptable" to many amateurs. And choice. and those people will end up with the pictures that equal the gutless optical wonders they use.

07-02-2016, 10:40 AM	#19
zapp Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,385	Originally posted by Paul the Sunman A quick check on B&H shows 34 off-brand FF lenses available for Pentax K-mount. For comparison, there are 110 for Canon and 111 for Nikon. I believe this is a major inhibitor for general uptake of the K1. Intrinsically, it's an excellent camera, but why buy into the Pentax FF eco-system with such limited (and often ageing) 3rd party support? The new Pentax FF zooms are great, though expensive and large. They won't suit everyone, or cover every need. So, perhaps PF members would like to nominate which 3rd party FF lens they would be most keen to see in K-mount (that is not already available). I'll start the ball rolling with the Sigma 150-600 Sport (yeh, I know, large and expensive). Pentax lacks Pentax FF designs that are less than 15 years of age. 70-200/2.8 is cool, what's next from Pentax (not Tamron)?

07-02-2016, 12:00 PM - 1 Like	#20
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Except for the D FA* 70-200, and the D FA 150-450, and the D FA 28-105, and the DA 560mm, and the DA* 300mm, and the DA*200mm, and the D FA 50mm macro, and the D FA 100mm macro, what less-than-15-years FF designs have the Pentax ever done for us?

07-02-2016, 01:04 PM	#21
Barry Pearson Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Stockport Posts: 964	Originally posted by Kunzite Except for the D FA* 70-200, and the D FA 150-450, and the D FA 28-105, and the DA 560mm, and the DA* 300mm, and the DA200mm, and the D FA 50mm macro, and the D FA 100mm macro, what less-than-15-years FF designs have the Pentax ever done for us? DA 55mm f/1.4? It is certainly an FF design!

07-02-2016, 01:19 PM	#22
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Let's put the onus where it should be. * Third-Party makers lag in K-mount availability. * KAF4 will solve the problem of third-party lenses in K-mount. Last edited by monochrome; 07-02-2016 at 02:15 PM.

07-02-2016, 01:43 PM	#23
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Barry Pearson DA* 55mm f/1.4? It is certainly an FF design! So was the 60-250, except they put a baffle in there. Removable, if you use the Force The DA 70mm Limited might work well, too.

07-02-2016, 02:18 PM	#24
Imp Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Washington, DC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,749	Originally posted by Barry Pearson what less-than-15-years FF designs have the Pentax ever done for us? Quote: DA* 55mm f/1.4? Haha! Perfect response! That was a great part of the movie.

07-02-2016, 02:28 PM	#25
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Oh, DA* 55mm f/1.4? Shut up!

07-02-2016, 02:30 PM	#26
Paul the Sunman Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,843 Original Poster	Originally posted by monochrome Let's put the onus where it should be. * Third-Party makers lag in K-mount availability. * KAF4 will solve the problem of third-party lenses in K-mount. In practice, there has to be a business case for offering K-mount versions of lenses. Pentax, under various ownership, has let its user base run down over many years, and missed the FF train entirely until recently. It has not been worth the efforts of Sigma and Tamron to service the K-mount market with new lenses. Under Ricoh things have been turned around to some extent, but the lack of 3rd party lens support makes the hole out of which they must climb even deeper. Sorry, I don't get the KAF4 point. How will it solve the problem?

07-02-2016, 11:48 PM	#29
Barry Pearson Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Stockport Posts: 964	Originally posted by Kunzite So was the 60-250, except they put a baffle in there. Removable, if you use the Force The DA 70mm Limited might work well, too. I think I saw a comment from Asahi Man that although they designed the 60-250mm as an FF lens, they changed the design before releasing it. Yes, I've tested that it actually covers the FF frame, with the main problem being the vignetting caused by the baffle. But it may not be as good as it could have been. Now that I've switched comprehensively to FF, the future of all my APS-C equipment is under scrutiny. Since I have no use for the 60-250mm as a pure APS-C lens, I think I intend to remove the baffle. I'I do have use for a 1-kilogram FF lens which I know from experience is OK for action photography.

07-03-2016, 03:38 AM	#30
Barry Pearson Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Stockport Posts: 964	Originally posted by Kunzite The DA 70mm Limited might work well, too. I keep seeing reference to the Pentax HD 70mm Limited as a good FF lens. How good is it at wide-ish apertures? I need one or more convenient FF lenses for lower-light conditions. I'm expecting to see one or more in 2017 or later. SRS currently has a £100 reduction on that lens! While the D FA 28-105mm f/3.5-f/5.6 is a lovely lens, my (ongoing) tests suggest that it becomes f/4 at about 31mm, f/4.5 at about 46mm, and f/5.6 at about 75mm.