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07-13-2016, 05:55 AM   #16
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I love Pentax and their camera design and the Pentax system currently does everything I need. This is why I'm definitely sticking to it for the time being.

I totally understand loyalty to a brand you like, and a sadness at having yourself or someone else choose to make a change. But an unwavering fanatical loyalty to a brand, in the face of the fact that it simply doesn't do what you need and that another brand would allow your photography to grow, is not helpful at all.

Yes, Pentax are great - but let's face it, Canon and Nikon do actually make excellent cameras too, and the overall ecosystem of lenses, accessories and sales/support availability are orders of magnitude larger and there are many circumstances where unquestioning support of Pentax could harm your own photography. In my case I am slowly building a part time photography business and hope one day for it to be a full time living. There is no way (without significant changes) that Pentax would be able to give the support I would need to earn my living with them and so I will inevitably move on. Sad, but necessary.

07-13-2016, 06:06 AM   #17
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QuoteQuote:
I totally understand loyalty to a brand you like, and a sadness at having yourself or someone else choose to make a change. But an unwavering fanatical loyalty to a brand, in the face of the fact that it simply doesn't do what you need and that another brand would allow your photography to grow, is not helpful at all.
We are talking about a 20% difference in reach between 50-500 and 150-600. It's not even clear that the 150-600 produces a better image than cropping the 50-500 a bit more.

QuoteOriginally posted by victormeldrew Quote
There is no way (without significant changes) that Pentax would be able to give the support I would need to earn my living with them and so I will inevitably move on. Sad, but necessary.
Yes we do have a number of users like yourself who bought in because Pentax was a quality product at a good price, but not because of any one product that appealed to you. So of course you understand the OP. There will always be people buying into Pentax as a stepping stone brand.

But using terms like "But an unwavering fanatical loyalty to a brand," are inflammatory and derogatory.

I know it really upsets guys like you off that a lot of other people can meet their photographic needs without switching brands, without buying even a fraction of what Pentax has to offer, but I am totally opposed to this concept that anyone who is capable of meeting their needs solely with Pentax gear is a brand fanatic.

You should apologize. Just because your needs are more complex, doesn't mean those with less complex needs are fanatics. But your attitude does mean you comment is rude and demeaning.

QuoteQuote:
I totally understand loyalty to a brand you like, and a sadness at having yourself or someone else choose to make a change.
You mis-state the situation. My position is, the Pentax camera you own still does everything you bought it to do.

If you bought the wrong camera, that's on you.
If you don't like Pentax glass and expected other manufacturers to fill in the gaps, that's on you.
If you come on the Pentax forum and make a post that essentially blames Pentax for your bad judgement, that's on you.

The role of the Pentax forum is not to apologize to those who think they can benefit from better. You can go on with your "as a pro I need more" B.S. but we all know pros who flourish with Pentax, so even that is questionable. It sounds like whining "I can't be all I could be because Pentax is holding me back." What a pile.

You don't have to be a Pentax "fanatic" to see these inconsistencies in this approach.
I've owned Sigma, Panasonic, Mamiya and Minolta, Kodak, Samsung, Ricoh and many other companies' gear. In fact I'm willing to bet if we look at who's owned more camera company's gear, and define who's a brand fanatic and who isn't, you're more of a fanatic than I am.

And i certainly don't go on an Internet forum and announce.. "The camera y'all use isn't good enough for me, and you're a fanatic if it is good enough for you." Do all you people have Tourette's or some kind of personality disorder?

You really ought to take more responsibility for your bad purchasing decisions and not bother people who are happy with theirs, with good cause. It's not Pentax's fault if you don't know how to properly evaluate a camera system to see if it meets your current and future needs before you buy, and while we might feel sorry for you, there's nothing we can do to help you. Except maybe encourage you by saying "Do your homework next time, with enough diligence, you can get it right.."

Last edited by BigMackCam; 07-13-2016 at 08:34 AM. Reason: expletives deleted
07-13-2016, 06:45 AM   #18
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I may be the only person who likes these threads. I enjoy hearing about perceived gaps and thinking about how they could be filled alternately or how they do or don't represent gaps I'm willing to work around or how they represent an area that doesn't apply to me.

---------- Post added 07-13-16 at 09:52 AM ----------

In this case I don't shoot super long lens combos all that often. I have an FA* 300 and a DA* 60-250. I also have the HD 1.4x and the F-1.7x tear converters. I just don't need the lens in question. If I needed it the DFA 150-450 and HD 1.4x might be on my radar.

As it is I think this post was not particularly trolling. However if faced with this decision I might pose to the group a thread asking for reasons to stay and alternate solutions before making up my mind.
07-13-2016, 06:58 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
I may be the only person who likes these threads. I enjoy hearing about perceived gaps and thinking about how they could be filled alternately or how they do or don't represent gaps I'm willing to work around or how they represent an area that doesn't apply to me.

---------- Post added 07-13-16 at 09:52 AM ----------

In this case I don't shoot super long lens combos all that often. I have an FA* 300 and a DA* 60-250. I also have the HD 1.4x and the F-1.7x tear converters. I just don't need the lens in question. If I needed it the DFA 150-450 and HD 1.4x might be on my radar.

As it is I think this post was not particularly trolling. However if faced with this decision I might pose to the group a thread asking for reasons to stay and alternate solutions before making up my mind.

And no one has a problem with folks who come in and ask for help with a problem. But what is with these folks who ask for you help by insulting you, and your gear? As I said, it's personality disorder.

The biggest problem many have with getting help, is actually asking for it.

07-13-2016, 06:59 AM   #20
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Look at my equipment in my signature. Most people can do plenty with much less. I can do everything I need to with what I have. Would I like to add the F* or FA* 250-600 f/5.6 to my equipment list? The FA* 600 f/4? One of the 800 or 1200 mm lenses that Pentax had in the past? You bet I would! Can I live without them? Most certainly. With what I have no I can actually pull things like the Orion nebula, pretty detailed moon shots, Andromeda, birds, and wildlife including bears from a distance.

To OP, go, try the DFA 150-450 with 1.4tc combo, be impressed.
07-13-2016, 07:11 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
And no one has a problem with folks who come in and ask for help with a problem. But what is with these folks who ask for you help by insulting you, and your gear? As I said, it's personality disorder.
Why is it that someone not getting what they need from a brand feels like an insult to you or your gear? If it works for you, great! If someone else has has found it doesn't work for them, fine...what's with the defensive rant? As you point out...you bought what you wanted and you're still happy with it, so what's the problem?

The great thing about photographic gear is that the trade in value is usually pretty good, so a commitment to a brand doesn't have to be for life. All I'm saying is that someone shouldn't prevent themself getting what they need out of a sense of loyalty for a corporation.
07-13-2016, 07:16 AM - 1 Like   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by victormeldrew Quote
Why is it that someone not getting what they need from a brand feels like an insult to you or your gear? If it works for you, great! If someone else has has found it doesn't work for them, fine...what's with the defensive rant? As you point out...you bought what you wanted and you're still happy with it, so what's the problem?

The great thing about photographic gear is that the trade in value is usually pretty good, so a commitment to a brand doesn't have to be for life. All I'm saying is that someone shouldn't prevent themself getting what they need out of a sense of loyalty for a corporation.
Why is it that someone calling people like me a "brand fanatic" isn't perceived as an insult by you?
I could care less what camera brand this guy uses or switches to, but if he want to label me a "brand fanatic" for sticking with Pentax then it's time for him to check out. He clearly can't understand that other people need are different than their own and their choices are valid only for himself. Using terms like "brand fanatic" doesn't clarify anything.

The short version. "Finding a brand adequate for one's needs does not make you brand fanatic. Jumping around from one camera system to another, doesn't mean you're smart, or accomplished, or knowledgeable a better photographer than anyone else, or a pro, or an expert on who's biased and who isn't. In fact it's just as likely to mean you don't have the technical background to figure out how to use your gear."

I explained quite concisely what i was objecting to in the rant. And I didn't do what you are claiming I did.

But I do understand the rant was a little long for people with a short attention span.

Last edited by normhead; 07-13-2016 at 07:32 AM.
07-13-2016, 07:28 AM - 1 Like   #23
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IMHO: the K-3 is a better camera for long reach

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
TIf you want something that rocks, you would consider a Canon 7DII and a 100-400 II , because this beats any other combos in terms of sharpness and AF speed. Otherwise, you can get a sigma 50-500 to mount on you K50 , for less than half the cost of the Nikon combo.
Personally I feel the K-3ii + DA* 60-250mm combination is a better option than either the Nikon 80-400 or the Canon 100-400. I did an extensive test of my D800 + AF-S 80-400mm vs. K-3 + DA* 60-250mm and I found that A.) there was no practical difference in IQ @ 24"x36" print size and B.) I got more handheld "keepers" with the Pentax vs. the Nikon. It was this week-long test that convinced me to add the K-3 to my (mostly) Nikon Kit.

Some links:

Michael

07-13-2016, 07:28 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
But I do understand the rant was a little long for people with a short attention span.
Identifying that your needs don't match a system's offerings and moving on to one that does what you need is perfectly smart. Telling someone who wants to do that to just stick with it and something might crop up in a few years is not, it's a case of loyalty overriding sense. But if that offends you I'm perfectly cool with that. Offence is taken, not given.
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07-13-2016, 07:42 AM   #25
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Cool down people! Its strange how every time these threads end up questioning Pentax as a pro or even more general as a serious photographic brand!

Those people who question Pentax with the 645Z, K-1 and K-3 series in her current arsenal must be joking!

A smile comes up in my face every time that I read posts about Pentax being inferior to the Canonikon alternatives... It's the same smile that I have when we review our pictures with my Casonikon fellow photographers and see their face expressions when they pay respect to an unknown brand for them they considered as less professional and an underdog... This surprise is so pleasing! I don't tend to compare my work, I am just personally satisfied or not, this is my criterion. And I'm totally satisfied by Pentax. Unavoidably though when you review your pics with other photographers there will be comparisons and then you can see how Pentax stands out of the crowd even when you have the same subjects and more or less the same frames with others. It's like it's different philosophy is transferred even into the PEFs!

PS: @victormeldrew my friend without any offense your equipment is not very Pentax and not very professional. If you think that by getting a Canon 80D or the D7200 and some third party prosumer lenses you gonna get greater results than the ones you get with your existing equipment, I really wish you good luck (I'm not ironical at all). If you are willing to spend 10+ grands for the new D5, 5DX beasts along with pro series equipment then you will make some steps ahead. But you can do that without switching brand if you feel that your equipment is restrictive for your skills (medium format 645Z for example). Of course if you don't feel that Pentax is for you I strongly recommend you to move on and find what suits you... Just take some time and think that in here are many Pentaxians that were shooting with different brands before I'm one of them...
07-13-2016, 07:47 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by waddojohn Quote
Hi, I recently wanted to purchase one of two lenses. Sigma 150-600mm and/or 300-800mm. I wrote to the Sigma office in the UK, asked if there was any chance of the two lenses being made for the Pentax mount. The reply I received was one that left me amazed. Sigma Japan have no intention of making these two lenses for Pentax, because Pentax do not sell enough units to warrant the cost of producing them, They do not think that there is enough demand for their product to be purchased.
This has now left me with only one direction and that is to purchase another make of Camera. I have been a loyal Pentax owner user for over 45 years, with the FF almost available in the UK. I find myself wondering why I could buy a Nikon D720 and the 150-600mm contemporary lens for less than the cost of the New FF body, which I have been waiting what seems a lifetime only to find the Lens I would like to bolt on, is not available in Pentax. the Sport Lens would only just be a Little bit over if I went down that route.
Its a sad day when in my opinion the Best camera maker, is not supported by a major lens maker. I read in articles they are plenty of Pentax lenses available, maybe there is, I have great difficulty getting or finding them, I like nature and Military, so short lens are useless for my interests.
So my life long collection will have to take second place, I will not sell them.
I hope the New FF is a crowd puller and that Sigma changes its policy, sadly I will have moved on because I cannot wait any longer.

Regards

John
while Sigma clearly makes good lenses now, their on-going focusing issues (particularly acute with Nikon bodies) prevents me from giving them serious consideration. I'd rather support Tamron or Samyang or anyone else who licenses the AF from directly the manufacturer rather than reverse-engineering (which I see as a form of IP theft).

Michael
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