Simple lens shootout Pentax HD DFA 150-450 vs Canon 100-400 II vs Sigma 150-600 C

lemonsoda · 07-19-2016, 01:28 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

From what I can tell, you are saying that you sold your Pentax gear because a Nikon/Sigma combo was better for your style of shooting. Fair enough, though it seems a bit strange to join an online forum just to post an off-topic comment.

1. I didn't sell my Pentax gear.... I just sold K-1 and DFA 150-450.
2. As you can see in my profile, I didn't join this forum recently. And the reason to answer in this thread is, that beholder3 posted the link in my favourite german Pentax forum (pentaxians.de)

But ok: believe in his "test" an be happy to take pictures of roofes with your Pentax stuff!

Originally posted by rawr

Ugh.

Which TC was used w. K-1 and 150-450? The DA 1.4 TC isn't officially FF compatible. In K-1 crop mode it might perform OK optically, I guess, but it will still make the 150-450 a f5.6-f8 lens, so the AF may struggle.

Also put a 1.4 TC on any Tamron or Sigma 150-600 + D810, and the optical or AF results won't be great either, particularly at the longest end.

The optical performance has nothing to do with crop oder non-crop mode. The DA 1.4 TC produces dark corners, that's all. The problem was the af accuracy, not the vignetting!

And why should I use a 150-600 with a TC? It HAS the 600mm I need!

rawr · 07-19-2016, 01:40 AM

Originally posted by lemonsoda

And why should I use a 150-600 with a TC? It HAS the 600mm I need!

I was just making the point that a TC will usually complicate the performance of any lens - AF accuracy, IQ, vignette.

Hence your comments about DFA 150-450 with TC, and Sigma 150-600 without TC, seemed a bit unfair to me.

Dan Rentea · 07-19-2016, 05:59 AM

Originally posted by rawr

I was just making the point that a TC will usually complicate the performance of any lens - AF accuracy, IQ, vignette.

Hence your comments about DFA 150-450 with TC, and Sigma 150-600 without TC, seemed a bit unfair to me.

Yet, you will find people here, on Pentax forum, which will tell you that a K1 with a Pentax 150-450mm lens + 1.4x TC will perform better in terms of IQ and Af accuracy/speed than any other full frame from Canon/Nikon with a 150-600mm Sigma/Tamron lens attached.

Kunzite · 07-19-2016, 06:13 AM

Not on this thread (and I'm not sure they actually exist at all).

beholder3 · 07-19-2016, 07:25 AM

For the fun of it I add a video with what Sigma delivers as "image stabilization" out of the box (standard setting) for the 150-600mm at 600mm:

To see the video you need to click on the image to get to flickr, I think.

And there are still people claiming that in-lens-image stabilisation offers the "benefit" of an stabilized viewfinder.

While that might be the case for the Canon lens, it's anything but true for the Sigma. It's just a fail.

JinDesu · 07-19-2016, 07:36 AM

That was dizzying

Giklab · 07-19-2016, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by JinDesu

That was dizzying

Well, it is at 600mm. SR does the same boogie at higher focal lengths.

lemonsoda · 07-19-2016, 11:49 PM

What beholder3 doesn't tell us: the standard mode of the OS in the 150-600 lenses is not to stabilize all the time, but, like SR in the body, to do the job in the moment you take the picture. You can change this with the USB-dock to have a stabilized image in the viewfinder. The linked image was taken with 1/50 at 600mm, 1 of 1 shots.

**Digitalis** · 07-20-2016, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

I think the difference is too big... is the 5DMkIII's AA filter that strong?

Yes, The AA filter is very strong. Canon uses weaker AA filters on their lower level cameras, on higher level ones they reduce the default sharpening and increase AA filtration.

Originally posted by biz-engineer

Canon 5DIII is the highest quality gear of Canon , all the rest is built cheaper.

As somewhat of an expert on Canon camera equipment, I disagree. A Canon 1DX can be used to hammer in nails.

Originally posted by beholder3

The 150-450 is on par with the 100-400 II optically.

At present my optical tests are in progress, At this point I'd have to say the Pentax lens has the advantage over the Canon lens, especially regarding image contrast and flare control.

biz-engineer · 07-20-2016, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by Digitalis

As somewhat of an expert on Canon camera equipment, I disagree. A Canon 1DX can be used to hammer in nails.

Ok I failed :-)

SpecialK · 07-20-2016, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by beholder3

For the fun of it I add a video with what Sigma delivers as "image stabilization" out of the box (standard setting) for the 150-600mm at 600mm:

Yours seem defective. Mine works fine.

zapp · 07-24-2016, 01:50 AM

Better tests require less discussion.
Any heat wave within 170 m distance can cause large contrast and sharpness differences. Upscaling from 22 to 36 MP imagery is not a valid procedure - comparing 22 with 36 MP sensor, w/wo AA filter is also wrong. How about the tripod, mounting, shutter speed, MLU, ...

I will need to buy a 150-450 to check it out. So far nobody really calls it a lemon unless a TC is required. For me the K3 is the TC. I would prefer a 2.8/300 and a decent 2x TC from Pentax, not a zoom, but it should deliver.

beholder3 · 07-24-2016, 05:07 AM

Originally posted by SpecialK

Yours seem defective. Mine works fine.

Well it is the second lens I tried with same results. Feel free to post a video to proove your claim.
Maybe it is one more of Sigma many, many poor quality issues, but this time I do not believe it. There are lots of users on forums who have recognized this behaviour.
Imaging resource says:

Quote:

However, we did notice some odd, rather distracting jitteriness and twitching of the OS system, that's particularly visible at the longer focal length. It can be difficult to keep the focus point on a small subject; you really notice the focus point jumping and fidgeting around while the stabilization system is active.

Kunzite · 07-24-2016, 05:14 AM

And they say SR is bad, because it doesn't help with a stable viewfinder image.

M.L.E. It does this only in video, or also with stills?

SpecialK · 07-24-2016, 09:07 AM

Originally posted by beholder3

Well it is the second lens I tried with same results. Feel free to post a video to proove your claim.

My mistake - I don't shoot video. However, my viewfinder does not jump around like that.

07-24-2016, 05:14 AM	#44
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	And they say SR is bad, because it doesn't help with a stable viewfinder image. M.L.E. It does this only in video, or also with stills? Last edited by Kunzite; 07-24-2016 at 09:48 AM.

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07-19-2016, 01:28 AM	#31
lemonsoda Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: near Munich airport Posts: 60	Originally posted by stevebrot From what I can tell, you are saying that you sold your Pentax gear because a Nikon/Sigma combo was better for your style of shooting. Fair enough, though it seems a bit strange to join an online forum just to post an off-topic comment. 1. I didn't sell my Pentax gear.... I just sold K-1 and DFA 150-450. 2. As you can see in my profile, I didn't join this forum recently. And the reason to answer in this thread is, that beholder3 posted the link in my favourite german Pentax forum (pentaxians.de) But ok: believe in his "test" an be happy to take pictures of roofes with your Pentax stuff! Originally posted by rawr Ugh. Which TC was used w. K-1 and 150-450? The DA 1.4 TC isn't officially FF compatible. In K-1 crop mode it might perform OK optically, I guess, but it will still make the 150-450 a f5.6-f8 lens, so the AF may struggle. Also put a 1.4 TC on any Tamron or Sigma 150-600 + D810, and the optical or AF results won't be great either, particularly at the longest end. The optical performance has nothing to do with crop oder non-crop mode. The DA 1.4 TC produces dark corners, that's all. The problem was the af accuracy, not the vignetting! And why should I use a 150-600 with a TC? It HAS the 600mm I need!

07-19-2016, 01:40 AM	#32
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by lemonsoda And why should I use a 150-600 with a TC? It HAS the 600mm I need! I was just making the point that a TC will usually complicate the performance of any lens - AF accuracy, IQ, vignette. Hence your comments about DFA 150-450 with TC, and Sigma 150-600 without TC, seemed a bit unfair to me.

07-19-2016, 05:59 AM	#33
Dan Rentea Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Bucharest Posts: 1,716	Originally posted by rawr I was just making the point that a TC will usually complicate the performance of any lens - AF accuracy, IQ, vignette. Hence your comments about DFA 150-450 with TC, and Sigma 150-600 without TC, seemed a bit unfair to me. Yet, you will find people here, on Pentax forum, which will tell you that a K1 with a Pentax 150-450mm lens + 1.4x TC will perform better in terms of IQ and Af accuracy/speed than any other full frame from Canon/Nikon with a 150-600mm Sigma/Tamron lens attached.

07-19-2016, 06:13 AM	#34
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Not on this thread (and I'm not sure they actually exist at all).

07-19-2016, 07:25 AM	#35
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112 Original Poster	For the fun of it I add a video with what Sigma delivers as "image stabilization" out of the box (standard setting) for the 150-600mm at 600mm: To see the video you need to click on the image to get to flickr, I think. And there are still people claiming that in-lens-image stabilisation offers the "benefit" of an stabilized viewfinder. While that might be the case for the Canon lens, it's anything but true for the Sigma. It's just a fail.

07-19-2016, 07:36 AM	#36
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	That was dizzying

07-19-2016, 01:20 PM	#37
Giklab Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Slovenia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,182	Originally posted by JinDesu That was dizzying Well, it is at 600mm. SR does the same boogie at higher focal lengths.

07-19-2016, 11:49 PM	#38
lemonsoda Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: near Munich airport Posts: 60	What beholder3 doesn't tell us: the standard mode of the OS in the 150-600 lenses is not to stabilize all the time, but, like SR in the body, to do the job in the moment you take the picture. You can change this with the USB-dock to have a stabilized image in the viewfinder. The linked image was taken with 1/50 at 600mm, 1 of 1 shots.

07-20-2016, 07:52 AM	#39
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by Kunzite I think the difference is too big... is the 5DMkIII's AA filter that strong? Yes, The AA filter is very strong. Canon uses weaker AA filters on their lower level cameras, on higher level ones they reduce the default sharpening and increase AA filtration. Originally posted by biz-engineer Canon 5DIII is the highest quality gear of Canon , all the rest is built cheaper. As somewhat of an expert on Canon camera equipment, I disagree. A Canon 1DX can be used to hammer in nails. Originally posted by beholder3 The 150-450 is on par with the 100-400 II optically. At present my optical tests are in progress, At this point I'd have to say the Pentax lens has the advantage over the Canon lens, especially regarding image contrast and flare control.

07-20-2016, 12:14 PM	#40
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,246	Originally posted by Digitalis As somewhat of an expert on Canon camera equipment, I disagree. A Canon 1DX can be used to hammer in nails. Ok I failed :-)

07-20-2016, 04:27 PM	#41
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,481	Originally posted by beholder3 For the fun of it I add a video with what Sigma delivers as "image stabilization" out of the box (standard setting) for the 150-600mm at 600mm: Yours seem defective. Mine works fine.

07-24-2016, 01:50 AM	#42
zapp Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,388	Better tests require less discussion. Any heat wave within 170 m distance can cause large contrast and sharpness differences. Upscaling from 22 to 36 MP imagery is not a valid procedure - comparing 22 with 36 MP sensor, w/wo AA filter is also wrong. How about the tripod, mounting, shutter speed, MLU, ... I will need to buy a 150-450 to check it out. So far nobody really calls it a lemon unless a TC is required. For me the K3 is the TC. I would prefer a 2.8/300 and a decent 2x TC from Pentax, not a zoom, but it should deliver.

07-24-2016, 05:07 AM	#43
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112 Original Poster	Originally posted by SpecialK Yours seem defective. Mine works fine. Well it is the second lens I tried with same results. Feel free to post a video to proove your claim. Maybe it is one more of Sigma many, many poor quality issues, but this time I do not believe it. There are lots of users on forums who have recognized this behaviour. Imaging resource says: Quote: However, we did notice some odd, rather distracting jitteriness and twitching of the OS system, that's particularly visible at the longer focal length. It can be difficult to keep the focus point on a small subject; you really notice the focus point jumping and fidgeting around while the stabilization system is active.

07-24-2016, 09:07 AM	#45
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,481	Originally posted by beholder3 Well it is the second lens I tried with same results. Feel free to post a video to proove your claim. My mistake - I don't shoot video. However, my viewfinder does not jump around like that.