[AmaZing]

After spending a few weeks understanding the Pentax system and having had a good amount of help from Pentaxians I have prepared a draft kit choice. Can you please help me refine it or just critique it?

1. Camera: K3ii or successor
2. Travel zoom: Pentax DA 18-135mm WR
   • Reason: Very good IQ, light, WR, DC motor. Will pick up a 14 or 15mm Pentax prime later...
   • Alternates considered:
     • Pentax and Sigma 2.8 zooms in the ~ 17 - 50: short FL and heavy
     • Pentax 16 - 85: Not much improvement in IQ, Don't shoot the wide end that much. Extra telephoto reach of 18-135 seems to suit travel / pick-up-and-run needs more.
3. One good portrait lens: Pentax DA* 55mm F1.4 WR
4. One good macro lens and also that serves as a lead up to the next higher FLs: Pentax DFA 100mm F2.8 WR
5. Walk around (read light) birding and other fauna: Pentax DA* 200 WR or successor
6. Teleconverter: Pentax TC 1.4x. Also considering F 1.7x AF but don't quite understand the limitations...

In addition to commenting on the above, can you also let me know the following:

1. Is anything related to the above on Pentax's roadmap? If I can wait a bit to get an upgraded item then I'd rather do that...
2. I really wanted an APSC normal prime. 31ish mm is closer to my view than a 35mm. However Pentax 31 is expensive and Sigma 30 1.4 Art is big and heavy... any other suggestions?
3. What is special about the 20ish mm FL on APSC? I have heard this FL being talked about as the ~"Rangefinder view for street photography".
4. Any excellent optics but significantly cheaper manual lens options that will add usable value to my kit?
5. I love birding... any long FL manual lens choices that are usable for birding or are otherwise an excellent value? I am talking 300mm and up.

Thanks for your help in advance...

[TER-OR]

You are on the right course, I think. It's fairly similar to my kit.
I'd consider the 55-300 at first, it's pretty good and very portable.

Normal prime - consider the DA21mm. I love mine, it's tiny and very much a "rangefinder" style. You can literally just point and shoot without looking through the viewfinder if you want, you'll get the hang of it. It has a good FOV for street and casual shooting - and even indoors. As an added bonus, it's super sharp and has great contrast. Plus, pancakes are cool.

My next purchase will probably bee a DA 300mm. That's big but worth carrying for birding. The only problem is it's so convenient to use a zoom which lets you more easily find your subject, that the 300mm may be inconvenient for walkaround birding.

The 100mm macro and inexpensive Sunpak DX-8R ring flash is simply astonishing with the K3II. I'm using it manually at 1/8 or 1/4 power, in P-mode at f/16. That puts it at 1/160sec exposure and 100ISO, plenty of room for bumping exposure if needed.

If you do go K3II instead of K3, consider the little FG201 flash. It's handy indoors since you can bounce behind you.

[Driline]

The 100mm macro and inexpensive Sunpak DX-8R ring flash is simply astonishing with the K3II.

I can second that. I'm using the same set up with my K-3.

[UncleVanya]

After spending a few weeks understanding the Pentax system and having had a good amount of help from Pentaxians I have prepared a draft kit choice. Can you please help me refine it or just critique it?

1. Camera: K3ii or successor
2. Travel zoom: Pentax DA 18-135mm WR
   • Reason: Very good IQ, light, WR, DC motor. Will pick up a 14 or 15mm Pentax prime later...
   • Alternates considered:
     • Pentax and Sigma 2.8 zooms in the ~ 17 - 50: short FL and heavy
     • Pentax 16 - 85: Not much improvement in IQ, Don't shoot the wide end that much. Extra telephoto reach of 18-135 seems to suit travel / pick-up-and-run needs more.
3. One good portrait lens: Pentax DA* 55mm F1.4 WR
4. One good macro lens and also that serves as a lead up to the next higher FLs: Pentax DFA 100mm F2.8 WR
5. Walk around (read light) birding and other fauna: Pentax DA* 200 WR or successor
6. Teleconverter: Pentax TC 1.4x. Also considering F 1.7x AF but don't quite understand the limitations...

I own nearly all of these items. I have a K-3 not a K-3ii - detailed comments below.

I love my 18-135 so I concur on that choice given your criteria.
I have never shot the DA* 55 - but I have the DA Limited 70 and FA Limited 77 as well as an F 50 f/1.7 - of these I prefer the 70 and 77 over the 50mm focal length for my portrait use. The f/1.4 of the 55 will be helpful for subject isolation and bokeh but the added focal length helps also. So comparing them in a DOF calculator may be helpful - also the DA 70 and FA 77 are rather small jewels compared with the DA* 55. Your mileage may vary.

The D FA 100 macro WR is a lovely lens and works for many things. The lack of any focus limiting switch really is the only drawback. Missing focus can be painful when it racks the entire focus range.

The DA* 200 is a great lens. However many feel it is too short and prefer the DA* 300. I own both the DA* 200 and the FA* 300 and use the DA* 200 more often. Combined with the 1.4x TC it gives nearly 280mm at f/4 and is a good lens all around.

The F AF 1.7x is a weird creature. It allows you to take a manual or autofocus lens and mount it to this adding 1.5 stops and 1.7x focal length. The lens is then prefocused into the basic range you need and the adapter completes the focus for you by moving elements inside it. The focus range is small but you can use it as a sort of focus limiter for critical situations - the limited range means it focuses quickly and doesn't lose time to racking the entire range of focus on a miss. It has outstanding clarity and works well. The one caveat I have is that sometimes trying to shoot tiny night time objects is frustrating with this converter since it is autofocus and you cannot manually control it. If your camera has trouble finding the object you want to focus on - it can be complicated to resolve. This typically only happens at night shooting stars or planets.

Teleconverters are a bit of a mixed bag in that you can crop to similar results - but that's endlessly debated. It appears that on the K3 series the added sensor resolution can offset the cropping a bit more and make TC vs. crop a little less clearly in favor of using the TC. But in my experience it is easier to frame and shoot with the TC than imagine the shot with cropping. Plus there are times when cropping and the TC is needed.

Some people even combine the 1.7x and 1.4x - I'm afraid I'm not one of them so I can't comment on the effectiveness.

In addition to commenting on the above, can you also let me know the following:

1. Is anything related to the above on Pentax's roadmap? If I can wait a bit to get an upgraded item then I'd rather do that...
2. I really wanted an APSC normal prime. 31ish mm is closer to my view than a 35mm. However Pentax 31 is expensive and Sigma 30 1.4 Art is big and heavy... any other suggestions?
3. What is special about the 20ish mm FL on APSC? I have heard this FL being talked about as the ~"Rangefinder view for street photography".
4. Any excellent optics but significantly cheaper manual lens options that will add usable value to my kit?
5. I love birding... any long FL manual lens choices that are usable for birding or are otherwise an excellent value? I am talking 300mm and up.

Thanks for your help in advance...

The Pentax roadmap is opaque to me. Nothing announced strikes any chords with what you have said you want to buy.

The FA35 f/2 and the DA 35 f/2.4 are good possibilities for less expensive normal primes. The FA is better but the DA is cheaper and more available. Both are technically still sold new.

The FA 50 f/1.4 by the way is another lens still sold that might fit your needs for portrait work - but I haven't tried it.

The 20mm focal length gives a field of view of 30mm on a 35mm film camera. This coupled with the very small size of the lens makes for a good street camera option. The DA 40 while longer also works in this way because of the size. These are unobtrusive lenses.

Long FL lenses - the K 300 f/4 is fairly well respected as is the A 400 f/5.6. The M* and A* 300 f/4 are superb and both work well with the 1.7x - however the A* and M* lenses are close in price to used F* and FA* and DA* 300's so I would be cautious about sinking money in them until you are sure that you prefer them over the autofocus options.


If you dropped the DA* 55 and picked up the DA 70 or FA 77, then the 100 macro might be too close in focal length. The DA 35 macro is a nice macro lens for things that don't bite - it also makes a good normal lens with the concern about the long focus throw as a caveat. The FA 135 is another nice lens. So an alternate way to equip would be DA 35 macro, FA 77 or DA 70, and FA 135. You might skip the 200 and get the 300 at that point using the 1.4x TC to give you a 190mm f/4. Options are huge...

Nothing you suggested is however a bad idea.

[Imp]

looks fine!

#2 - that's one issue pentax has, they don't have any consumer 28mm or 30mm primes. But they've got a ton of "normal" primes! Just not wide-normal AND inexpensive
For example, 40mm 2.8 xs and limited, 35 2.4, 35 2.8 macro ltd, 31mm FA

Check out the recent poll that Ricoh put out, asking for interest in future lenses. One of their questions was about a good 30mm 1.4 lens. So, maybe in the far future?

I've got an A 28 f/2.8 for my wide normal. I can set it to f/8 and 10' on the focus scale, and everything from 5' to infinity will be in focus. So although it is manual focus, its wide enough just to set it and leave it for most things. I'd like a 21mmltd and a 40mm ltd as well, but for now my prime kit is the 28mm 2.8 A and an M 50 1.7.

So #4, the M 50 1.7 is great, but since you're getting the DA*55, its rather redundant.

[C_Jones]

K-3II is a good choice.

[Des]

Well thought-out kit and excellent advice already, @AmaZing,

Like you, I haven't quite sorted out the premium lens somewhere in the 20-40mm range, I have baulked at the Sigma 30 and the FA 31 for similar reasons to you. A really good 24mm or 28mm lens might tempt me, but I haven't been drawn to the ones I've seen. The consolation is that the 18-135 covers that focal range surprisingly well, the 12-24 is very good, the DA 35 is sharp (if a little unexciting) and the FA 43 is wonderful. It's not a high priority for me because I tend to shoot wider or longer anyway.

Just a comment on the birding lens. 200mm is generally too short. Some users have got good results using the DA*200 with one or more teleconverters - look at recent posts by @Normhead.

Personally I find the 300 prime (plus TC where required) to be the sweet spot. I have the FA*300 f4.5 and it's a fine lens, and weighs only 930g or thereabouts. (Not WR, but significantly lighter than the DA*300; and it's superbly sharp. Lacks the quiet SDM AF, but no worries about reliability.) For birds within say 10m it's long enough with judicious cropping (for which the extra pixels in the K-3 are very handy), and using the TC for 420mm f6.3-ish is good for further away in good light. If you are trying to photograph waders at 50m, even 420 might not be enough, but going longer means a much bigger and heavier lens. Longer zooms like the 150-450 and the Bigma 50-500 at about 2kg are behemoths by comparison. I had a 170-500 zoom (which weighed about 1350g) and found even that heavy to carry. I find that I don't often miss the versatility of the zoom; when the birds are too close for the 300 I can use the DFA 100 or the 55-300, but that doesn't happen often. But if weight and cost are no issue, the 150-450 could tick all the boxes.

You ask about MF 300mm primes. I haven't owned one, but I did use MF lenses for many years on my film SLR. People do get great wildlife shots with MF tele lenses, but you might miss a lot of shots that you would get with AF. I'd suggest the extra money for say an F/FA*300 f4.5 over say an A*300 f4 is well worth it. The later generations seem to have less CA too - the FA* has virtually none. And the older primes have much longer minimum focus distances (e.g. 4 metres for the A*300 f4) which I would find quite frustrating.

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Last edited by Des; 08-02-2016 at 03:46 PM.

[Kozlok]

One of the big benefits of owning Pentax is older, manual focus primes really work quite well. You get shake reduction, focus confirmation, and green-button metering (or A metering). Pick a focal length, and get a MF prime. I have a bunch, really adds a different kind of fun to photography. Go slow, manual focus, meter the hard way.

[AmaZing]

Thank you everyone for your advice and comments. A special thank you to @TER-OR, @UncleVanya, @Imp and @Des for taking the time to give detailed advice.

I have decided to stay with my initial choices for now with the addition of DA 21 ltd for street photography. Besides I just love the colors that it produces!

Weight is one of the reasons why I am not going longer than DA* 200mm (with TC 1.4x) for now. I will also budget and buy 31 ltd (or successor) at a later point in time. Those manual focus lenses available (mostly) for cheap are very tempting... but for now I will just clinch my fists and stay with this set. Even though I have not started to buy yet, I can feel the tug of LBA... :-)

[Lowell Goudge]

although a bit late. i'll toss in my $0.02

for me, and for travel, which bnegan in the film days where my widest lens was 24mm, this was simply not wide enough for all cases, especially in europe, where buildings are large, relative to the width of the streets they may be built upon. 24mm on film, equates to a 16mm fov for APS-C formats.

so for digital, and again this could be a function of your definition of travel, i think you need to get down to the 10-12mm range at the wide end. Similarly, i find the amount of use i get from something in the 135mm focal length range, when travelling in cities is not that useful.

the net result is that today, if i know my travel is only in cities, i take my sigma 10-20 and my tamron 28-75 but i am thinking of changing to a 16-85 for WR plus the filling of the gap between 20 and 28mm.

if travel includes getting out into the country, then i add length for nature. i can do this many ways, but normally either my K300/4 plus 1.7x AF converter, or my sigma 70-200/2.8 with 1.4 and 2x converters in the bag.

my preference is to keep zoom ranges short and take the extra weight to carry it, than take the compromise of loss of speed and IQ for convenience of fewer lenses. Note that i always go with 2 bodies, so i have a pretty good range covered without changing lenses, and with a little forethought on where you are and what you are doing, it is simply a matter of a shoulder bag and switching one camera out for the other with no lens changes

[UncleVanya]

Thank you everyone for your advice and comments. A special thank you to @TER-OR, @UncleVanya, @Imp and @Des for taking the time to give detailed advice.

I have decided to stay with my initial choices for now with the addition of DA 21 ltd for street photography. Besides I just love the colors that it produces!

Weight is one of the reasons why I am not going longer than DA* 200mm (with TC 1.4x) for now. I will also budget and buy 31 ltd (or successor) at a later point in time. Those manual focus lenses available (mostly) for cheap are very tempting... but for now I will just clinch my fists and stay with this set. Even though I have not started to buy yet, I can feel the tug of LBA... :-)

Look for threads by normhead on the use of stacked teleconverters. Good choices, enjoy!

[Des]

Look for threads by normhead on the use of stacked teleconverters.

Like these:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/317758-my-l...-solution.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/12-post-your-photos/323986-nature-anyone-...und-combo.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/321890-unde...re-detail.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/318512-6-wa...0mm-image.html

Those manual focus lenses available (mostly) for cheap are very tempting... but for now I will just clinch my fists and stay with this set. Even though I have not started to buy yet, I can feel the tug of LBA... :-)

You'll need to do more than clench your fists to resist the Sirens. ;-)

[Nicolas06]

After spending a few weeks understanding the Pentax system and having had a good amount of help from Pentaxians I have prepared a draft kit choice. Can you please help me refine it or just critique it?

1. Camera: K3ii or successor
2. Travel zoom: Pentax DA 18-135mm WR
   • Reason: Very good IQ, light, WR, DC motor. Will pick up a 14 or 15mm Pentax prime later...
   • Alternates considered:
     • Pentax and Sigma 2.8 zooms in the ~ 17 - 50: short FL and heavy
     • Pentax 16 - 85: Not much improvement in IQ, Don't shoot the wide end that much. Extra telephoto reach of 18-135 seems to suit travel / pick-up-and-run needs more.
3. One good portrait lens: Pentax DA* 55mm F1.4 WR
4. One good macro lens and also that serves as a lead up to the next higher FLs: Pentax DFA 100mm F2.8 WR
5. Walk around (read light) birding and other fauna: Pentax DA* 200 WR or successor
6. Teleconverter: Pentax TC 1.4x. Also considering F 1.7x AF but don't quite understand the limitations...

In addition to commenting on the above, can you also let me know the following:

1. Is anything related to the above on Pentax's roadmap? If I can wait a bit to get an upgraded item then I'd rather do that...
2. I really wanted an APSC normal prime. 31ish mm is closer to my view than a 35mm. However Pentax 31 is expensive and Sigma 30 1.4 Art is big and heavy... any other suggestions?
3. What is special about the 20ish mm FL on APSC? I have heard this FL being talked about as the ~"Rangefinder view for street photography".
4. Any excellent optics but significantly cheaper manual lens options that will add usable value to my kit?
5. I love birding... any long FL manual lens choices that are usable for birding or are otherwise an excellent value? I am talking 300mm and up.

Thanks for your help in advance...

A few remarks:
- Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 is cheaper/lighter/smaller that may be interresting, in particular if you also keep the 18-135 for walkaround, you may not want to spend to much on a specialty lens (f/2.8 transtandard here).
- i believe sigma 30mm f/1.4 to be not that big compared to FA31. Sigma is 74mm x 63 and 430g. FA31 is 66x68.5 and 345g But the sigma is f/1.4. i got myself the 31, but the price not the same. I do believe the sigma to be great value. And like you I prefer 28-31mm as focal length rather than 35-43 that would be a bit narrow on APSC.
- I think a 200mm was part of the Pentax questionnaire made not long ago. As such I think they plan to replace the DA*200 at some point by a DFA. f/2 and f/2.8 were the option you could give your opinion on for the apperture. But honestly this may take them years to release one.
- 20mm on APSC or 30mm on FF is wide with quite some deph of field, not yet that much distorsion. it is also quite near to the angle of view provided by many smartphones. This is a focal lens that can serve many purposes. For a walkaround honestly I prefer a moderate tele like the FA77, I prefer the framing... I didn't use my DA21 for some time (but the lens good, mostly for its size and rendering).
- The HD DA55-300 is great value for widlife but would be no better than DA*200, just cheaper and more practical.

[AmaZing]

@Lowell: Thanks for the details. I would love to see your walk around street photos with 24mm on film/FF to get an idea...

Once I shoot a lot of pictures with the mentioned kit, I will then have an idea of whether I want to go wider or longer (or both!). Most likely it will be longer as that suits my birding / wildlife interests more.

@Des: Thanks for the wonderful links. Indeed @Norm's posts have greatly influenced my initial kit choice.

LBA sirens? No chance! I've got a powerful weapon called "wife" :-)

@Nicolas06: Thanks. Happy to see that our views are similar on the subject - though I must say that your's come with considerable experience.

On 200mm update: I read a post on PF and saw something on the internet indicating that Pentax has filed a patent on the new 200mm in the works. Are you referring to the same? And are you also suggesting that it can take a few years from this stage to the actual production release?!! I was thinking later this year :-||

[Lowell Goudge]

Out of curiosity. What are you shooting now? If you are just planning this to start out. I have a proposal. Start with the kit lens and shoot with it to decide what is wide and the go from there.

It's hard to explain 35 years of experience in a few lines. You need to see some things for your self. My problem is that I shoot both archers tire and wild life.