[FantasticMrFox]

The current Pentax K-mount roadmap shows a 'DA Wide Zoom' for "2015 or later*". Going back in time, that lens has been on the roadmap since at least 2013, but nothing came off it so far. Judging from the time that has passed Pentax may well have binned it, but at the same time it has made its way from one roadmap to the other, suggesting they haven't given up on it yet. Maybe it was just put on hold due to the full frame development taking up all R&D resources.

Looking at the roadmap, the lenses Pentax has released in recent years, and especially at the recent HD DA 55-300 WR PLM, my best guess is for an HD DA 12-28 f/4 WR PLM (or DC).

So has anyone heard any rumours (or may even have insider information ) regarding this lens?

[Na Horuk]

Oh, I just assumed they actually meant the DFA 15-35mm? (Or maybe scrapped the DA in favor of the DFA)
Basically, I don't believe a DA crop-only uwa zoom will come out anytime soon

[andymuns]

Use the sigma 18-35mm

[ChristianRock]

The DA 12-24 has been out of production for a few years now (they're just selling new old stock). So eventually, it will have to be replaced.

I think the problem is that the old stock is taking so long to sell... and the 12-24 is still a perfectly fine lens. So there's been no reason to release the new one yet.

Use the sigma 18-35mm

There's a HUGE difference between 12mm and 18mm... so I'm not sure how that would ever work... anyway, the DA 12-24 is the current lens that covers that range. Other options with similar (but not same) focal lengths include the Sigma 10-20mm and the Tamron 10-24mm.

[pathdoc]

Use the sigma 18-35mm

That has its own problems, as the staff review of the lens showed. It's a poisoned chalice unless you can easily give a dodgy one back over the counter.

[FantasticMrFox]

Oh, I just assumed they actually meant the DFA 15-35mm? (Or maybe scrapped the DA in favor of the DFA)
Basically, I don't believe a DA crop-only uwa zoom will come out anytime soon

No, that was probably not even planned in 2013. And the newer roadmaps show it alongside the proposed DA UWA zoom.

Use the sigma 18-35mm

Instead of my Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 HSM? It's not an ultra-wide lens.

I think the problem is that the old stock is taking so long to sell... and the 12-24 is still a perfectly fine lens. So there's been no reason to release the new one yet.

The DA 55-300 was a perfectly fine lens too, but then they released the HD DA 55-300 WR, then the HD DA 55-300 WR PLM The DA 12-24 is great optically, but lacks silent focusing and weather sealing.

[interested_observer]

The items that originally brought me to Pentax with digital bodies was the image stabilization in the body, and the Pentax lenses of yesteryear that I knew from the film days. Pentax has consistently delivered on the bodies. They out "Sonyed" Sony with Sony's own sensors. That's the good news. The dark side of that is that with the success of the 645 line (both the d and now especially with the z) they need new digital lens for that line. In addition to the 645 they now have the 135 full frame K1 body, whose weak point that all the reviewers have poked a stick at, is the Pentax's lens library limitation. Now, they are in the position of having to produce lenses for three distinctive sensor sizes - of which 2, the 645 and FF really require very high quality designs as table stakes.

So, their success in the bodies, is apparently showing weakness in lenses. In some respects, I see them falling behind the power curve here - much to my dismay

• 645 - Reviewers have been poking Pentax about the lack of lenses with built-in leaf shutter, which allows for high speed flash synchronization. To sort of address this, they teamed up with some flash company with the intent that the flash would relieve the need for leaf shutter lenses designs. OK - some creative thinking out of the box here. Points awarded! I am going to go out on a limb here and guess, that Pentax is choosing their particular user base carefully here. The 645 is intended to be more of field landscape and studio camera here as opposed to appealing to high synch flash uses. It's a hard decision, but if you are constrained in particular ways - you need to choose your battles very carefully - with malice of forethought.

• Full Frame - With the full frame K1 release, they came to market with a number of new full frame lenses, a couple of which were re-badged Tamron. If I were to buy a K1, I would have no problem in picking up the 15-35 - the design, rendering, image quality, build, etc. is great - other than the cost. I do understand that they need to pay Tamron, and do want to make a profit, and it's priced at less than the Nikon 14-24, and the price is somewhat reasonable given the smaller market - while Tamron's parent version enjoys a much wider market across Canon, Nikon, el al. All of that said, the two longer lenses that Pentax designed - one of which was delayed due to some sort of problem, have been dinged to some degree about their image quality wide open at the wide end in some reviews. I don't know what happened, but Pentax needs to get their lens mojo back on track and start hitting home runs on each release. That is a tall order - very difficult to accomplish. They also need to fill out their full frame lens offering here - perhaps not to the extent of the old K, M, A, F and FA lines of the past - but come up with an absolutely rock solid full frame lens line that supports their legacy reputation - that also makes sense to photographers.

• ASP-C - For the cropped DA lens line, they have a pretty full featured lens line. Not absolutely everything, but very respectful. Within this, they have the DA* 200, DA* 300 and the DA 60-250 along with the 1.4x TC which is pretty universally acclaimed as solid grand slam set of lenses in terms of everything needed with in a lens. They need to do this yet again - in both their 645 and 135 FF lens lines. They need uncompromising quality in what they offer. They have demonstrated that they can perform with the absolute best. No rest for the weary.

• Q - I have a Q, with a couple of lenses. It's a nice camera - I like it, but I am almost sorry that they did the line, since it had to have taken away resources from the 645 and 135 FF lens design efforts in hindsight. They have a reasonable full featured line, but it took effort - that should have gone elsewhere.

• Specialty lenses - Macro, Tele/Couplers, Shift and Tilt/Shift come to mind. With out the basic lens lineups set, I really do not see any specialty lenses coming down the pipeline until the basic needs are met.

That is an overview from my perspective of standing on the sidewalk, nose pressed to the window of the pet store - looking longingly at the way too cute puppy looking back at me wanting a new home. My heart is broken, that I just can't break in and scoop him up and scoot out of the shop.

Pentax needs a solid line up of glass - across all of their body lines. I don't think that they have the full research and design capacity to do this - unfortunately. They need to go to war with what they currently have. That said, they are going to have to suck it up and trudge forward - with unbridled enthusiasm. There are some bright points that I see....

• Coatings - They continue to come up with new coatings. This is a strong point that I believe has gone somewhat un-recognized. This is a plus and needs to be maintained, and grown.

• Low Cost - High Quality lenses - both in design, materials and build. I believe that their DA 35/f2.4 lens, even with its relative low cost (and hopefully profitability), is a home run in terms of pulling in new users. It is a lens that new folks can afford, and will potentially lead them to the higher cost lenses. Lenses like this are needed. Choose the focal lengths and replicate the success. You just can't have a couple of kit lenses and the rest of the line-up being high cost units. You need a balance. Photography is a long duration hobby. New users with a budge, usually can grow their budget over time. You need to provide a path here and grow your user base organically.

• Road Maps - They are talking to us the users! Marketing does exist!! Road maps are a necessary evil. You need them in order to attract and keep your user base. You need to let your users - the folks who keep spending, know that there is new product (in terms of lenses) coming their way. However - they are essentially only a best guess. So, here I go shooting myself in the foot. The roadmaps need to be developed in close cooperation with the overall business and i support of the bodies. On the other hand, the needs of the overall user base do change over time (possibly based on Pentax's own actions). It has been 15 years of clamoring for a full frame body. It's here - but now there is a need for lenses - along with the continuing need to feed the 645 line. What appeared to be a pressing need several years ago, may based on current events - be not such a need today, over shadowed by the current environment.

Pentax, need to have some room to maneuver here - perhaps even to change their mind - from time to time. I also believe - as much as I would like to only shoot with Pentax glass, that they need to take into account third party offerings. Sigma has an excellent 8-16 and 18-35. So, does that put undue pressure on Pentax to have their own offerings in that focal length range? What are the perceived needs from the overall camera business in terms of lens support? This points to the real need to sit down and make some really difficult decisions - both business and engineering.

• What is their overall lens design capacity?
• Can they expand this area?
• Are there top quality optical engineers available?
• Can they be attracted to Pentax (not only Pentax, but Ricoh/Pentax).
• Can their organically with in their optics department - grow their own - a new set of world class designers?
• They need to order in priority their lens needs across the 645, FF and APS-C lens lines. What are their most pressing needs in view of the overall camera business
• Is it possible to take the best/most popular of the legacy designs, and rework them with new materials and coatings for re-release.
• Can they take the best optical design software and wrap them into a simulation in such a way that they can generate a very wide range set of possible designs (optics, materials, coatings, classic design patterns), along with a digital simulation to evaluate each pattern instance to identify some possible approaches to a design that has not been considered.

In order to help optics along, Pentax needs to also augment the business with other capabilities..

• Flash - Just adopt and support other flash systems. Declare victory and provide user with this, and then go back and continue with expanding the basic functionalities.
• WiFi - Again, the basic capability is there, but to effectively use it - adopt and extend to an existing capability. Don't expend internal resources coming up with something new.
• Tethering - Again - don't reinvent the wheel. Adopt the best industry standard - conform to the USB based interface, don't spend any development capital here, just provide the users with what everyone else has. Yes, they finally came out with an add on product after what - 6+ years. Why go to the effort. Adapt the industry standard and use the software engineering talent elsewhere to do something that will be better. What they have done is not a full capability product - and why would I want to spend good money on it. And - also, why can I not use it on my existing K5/K5IIs - too little, too late.

These will provide new capabilities that are instantly usable - and take some marketplace pressures off of optics - providing them some breathing room.

Long winded wanderings to your question. But Pentax needs to really determine what lenses are most important to their long term business plan, and prioritize there. I do not see a ultra wide as that necessary right at this instant in time. They have a lot on their plate. They need to choose very wisely where they are going to spend their capital. Also, there need to be recognized that this is just not Pentax, but also the Ricoh GR business that also has their own special needs - across both bodies and lenses.

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Last edited by interested_observer; 08-26-2016 at 09:41 AM.

[monochrome]

A few points

• The comparatively low volume / market share of Pentax is always a constraint
• It just might be less expensive to build their own than to license flash/WiFi/Tethering technology due to core programming logic constraints and again, low volume
• There are public lens and product roadmaps - and then there are internal business plans. One is not the other. Recall, HD and PLM (asahi man comment) came out of the clear blue sky, with no hints.
• As was stated, any particular lens release may be dependent upon liquidation of existing stock, particularly in 645 mount.

There is so much we cannot know.

[lsimpkins]

... and the 12-24 is still a perfectly fine lens. So there's been no reason to release the new one yet.

Amen to that. As far as I am concerned the only improvements needed to the 12-24 are WR and maybe a good internal focusing motor.

[FantasticMrFox]

Amen to that. As far as I am concerned the only improvements needed to the 12-24 are WR and maybe a good internal focusing motor.

True, but judging from the roadmap (and it has been very accurate in the past) the new lens should be a 12-28 mm zoom rather than 12-24. So it appears they are actually aiming for an optical redesign rather than using the DA 12-24's formula. Initially I thought this isn't smart, as the DA 12-24 seems to be great optically (one of the best APS-C UWA zooms on the market), but then again it appears that integrating an AF motor into a lens almost always triggers a different optical design. They didn't take over the already very good one of the HD DA 55-300 WR either for the new PLM lens.

[Doundounba]

I hope it comes out - I'd love a 12-28mm WR ultra-wide. Super useful range. Doesn't even have to be a constant F/4, IMHO, F/3.5-4.5 would be fine for me. (I'd be a little miffed with 3.5-5.6, but even then I'd still seriously consider it.) That being said, I've personally become a little skeptical that this roadmapped lens will ever become real...

[ChristianRock]

I think we all know that the 12-24 is a Tokina design. Both companies (Pentax and Tokina) were owned by Hoya at one point and Pentax "gave" Tokina the 10-17mm Fisheye, the 16-50mm 2.8, the 35mm 2.8 Macro, and the 50-135mm 2.8. The only Tokina design that Pentax got, as far as I've seen reports, is the 12-24mm. Which is a great optical design.

Well, Tokina ceased production of their 12-24 and substituted it with a 12-28mm. If that is the one Pentax was going to use, they might as well stick to the 12-24mm, because by all accounts (reviews), the 12-28mm is a bit inferior to the 12-24mm, especially in the corners.

I'd particularly prefer Pentax to come up with a new design... or stick to the 12-24 if they can't.

If they should get another Tokina design, it should be the 11-16mm 2.8! (which is also said to be superior to their newer 11-20mm 2.8)

[FantasticMrFox]

If they should get another Tokina design, it should be the 11-16mm 2.8! (which is also said to be superior to their newer 11-20mm 2.8)

Yes, I so envy Nikonistas and Canonians for that one! Fast, wide and optically great. But as the cooperation between Tokina and Pentax has ceased, I doubt they'd get any Tokina designs.

Personally I have not given up hope yet. The fact that it has dwelled on the roadmap for so long without materialising might well demonstrate a priority shift (getting enough lenses out for the K-1) rather than a complete abandonment, and the new 55-300 shows that Pentax still cares about APS-C. UWA is the weak area of Pentax in terms of lens coverage, with only one zoom each for APS-C and FF, and the DA 12-24 is dated in many regards. So it would be smart of them to throw something new on the market.

Let's wait for Photokina.

[ChristianRock]

Yeah, you gotta give them that it still is in the roadmap... unlike the DA*30mm f/1.4, which was killed a while ago

One thing that is interesting is that Mr. Masakazu Saori (the Pentax designer that did the 16-45 right out of college, then the 16-50, 50-135, 17-70, 18-135, 16-85, and also DA 21 and DA 70), has a design for APS-C that was patented back in 2010... it's a 12-35mm f/3.5-4.5 lens. Now that would be an interesting proposition... considering the designer, I'd say they're sitting on the design of a pretty good lens!

Pentax patent of 12-35mm F3.5-4.5??????????So-net???

[Kunzite]

The 30mm was removed by Pentax-Hoya (last seen in 2009 IIRC); together with the long lens which is now the DA 560mm and the 1.4x RC. Ricoh reintroduced and delivered 2 out of those 3 products.