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mir156 · 09-19-2016, 01:17 PM

Sigma just announced the 85mm F1.4 Art and 12-24 F4 Art, none of which will offer K mount. The recently announced samyang 14mm F2.4 doesn't have K-mount either. Are there reasons for this from Pentax? I just feel so disappointed that my K-1 can't find some of the best glasses.

biz-engineer · 09-19-2016, 01:24 PM

Hopefully, the best glass will be in Pentax brand.

stevebrot · 09-19-2016, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by mir156

Why Sigma, Samyang stopped introducing K mount lenses?

It is difficult to determine where Samyang is heading with their newest series. Notice that Nikon has been similarly "stiffed". As for Sigma, they have a recent tradition of not providing providing broad mount support across their product line. Canon, for example, is often left out in the cold. The reasoning is apparently driven by market research and sector competition. There is no return on investment if market is small and projected penetration is unlikely to offset costs.

Steve

CarlJF · 09-19-2016, 01:41 PM

This has been discussed many times and, simply put, the market size for Pentax lenses is too small to be profitable. you can read this interview with Sigma CEO explaining this: CEO explains why so few K-mount...

Or, to make a long story short:

Quote:

Yamaki san expressed what I believe was very genuine regret that he isn't able to bring more of their lenses to the Pentax mount, but can only do so for the most popular models, that will generate enough demand to be produced sustainably.

Hopefully, the introduction of KAF4 lenses may help make it easier for third party manufacturers.

mir156 · 09-19-2016, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

It is difficult to determine where Samyang is heading with their newest series. Notice that Nikon has been similarly "stiffed". As for Sigma, they have a recent tradition of not providing providing broad mount support across their product line. Canon, for example, is often left out in the cold. The reasoning is apparently driven by market research and sector competition. There is no return on investment if market is small and projected penetration is unlikely to offset costs.

Steve

Agree with the reasoning. I was too optimistic when buying into the pentax system. In the foreseeable future the Irix 15mm F2.4 is my only hope for a decent UWA lens.

---------- Post added 09-19-16 at 01:44 PM ----------

Originally posted by CarlJF

This has been discussed many times and, simply put, the market size for Pentax lenses is too small to be profitable. you can read this interview with Sigma CEO explaining this: CEO explains why so few K-mount...

Or, to make a long story short:

Hopefully, the introduction of KAF4 lenses may help make it easier for third party manufacturers.

Thanks for the link.

Na Horuk · 09-19-2016, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by mir156

The recently announced samyang 14mm F2.4 doesn't have K-mount either.

Are you sure this is forever? Because some Samyang primes were released in other mounts first, not K-mount, but some months later, K-mount was brought out as well.

**THoog** · 09-19-2016, 01:57 PM

Note that Samyang DID recently announce the 20mm f/1.8 in K-mount. It's just this new "premium" line that has (so far) only been announced for a handful of mounts.

I just posted this in another thread, but Adam put it so well in a thread about the Samyang:

Originally posted by Adam

There seems to be a clear trend regarding third-party K-mount support: cheaper consumer lenses are typically made available, whereas high-end niche lenses aren't. Must be a reason behind this

There's not enough of us, and not enough of us that are willing to pay for high-end glass.

DeadJohn · 09-19-2016, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by CarlJF

Hopefully, the introduction of KAF4 lenses may help make it easier for third party manufacturers.

KAF4 temporarily shrinks the already small k-mount market until many more of us purchase new bodies. If KAF3 didn't have enough users for Sigma and Samyang, KAF4 won't be any better unless Pentax recruits many new users.

mir156 · 09-19-2016, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by Na Horuk

Are you sure this is forever? Because some Samyang primes were released in other mounts first, not K-mount, but some months later, K-mount was brought out as well.

Hope they add K mount to the 14mm F2.4 which has amazing MTF.

Adam · 09-19-2016, 02:49 PM

Not enough demand / too few sales.

FantasticMrFox · 09-19-2016, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by CarlJF

This has been discussed many times and, simply put, the market size for Pentax lenses is too small to be profitable. you can read this interview with Sigma CEO explaining this: CEO explains why so few K-mount...

Or, to make a long story short:

Hopefully, the introduction of KAF4 lenses may help make it easier for third party manufacturers.

I agree - small market share and trouble adapting the lenses to the K-mount due to manual aperture coupling (a problem that with Nikon they accept because they make more money with them) seem to be the reasons Sigma has stopped support for Pentax. The aperture problem has been solved now and this may start to have an impact on Sigma's decisions once the majority of customers actually own cameras that support KAF4 (e.g. the K3 doesn't), and the K-1 hasn't been out long enough yet for Sigma to be able to gauge what it will do to demand for Sigma lenses.

Maybe in one or two years time, Pentax' market share and demand will be high enough for Sigma to justify a a return to the K-mount.

**nicoprod** · 09-19-2016, 03:49 PM

This is a shame for the 85... I was looking forward to only use my 77 to start a fire in the wilderness if needed...

D1N0 · 09-19-2016, 03:53 PM

Pentax will probably have it's own 85mm under glass at photokina. Sigma wants to know what the demand for their new 85mm is first. If enough then maybe a K-mount.

stevebrot · 09-19-2016, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by FantasticMrFox

I agree - small market share and trouble adapting the lenses to the K-mount due to manual aperture coupling (a problem that with Nikon they accept because they make more money with them) seem to be the reasons Sigma has stopped support for Pentax.

For what it's worth, Sigma has been dealing with the aperture "problem" for about over 30 years. They have a high level of expertise implementing the feature.

Steve

**THoog** · 09-20-2016, 07:54 AM

Originally posted by FantasticMrFox

manual aperture coupling (a problem that with Nikon they accept

Originally posted by stevebrot

For what it's worth, Sigma has been dealing with the aperture "problem" for about over 30 years. They have a high level of expertise implementing the feature.

If I'm reading correctly, the three latest Sigmas use an electromagnetic aperture in Nikon mount as well. The "problem" of mechanical aperture may just be an excuse, but they appear to have dropped it as quickly as possible. (Maybe all the people who were patient enough to deal with the fiddly mechanical bits have retired?)

09-19-2016, 01:17 PM	#1
mir156 New Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 17	Why Sigma, Samyang stopped introducing K mount lenses? Sigma just announced the 85mm F1.4 Art and 12-24 F4 Art, none of which will offer K mount. The recently announced samyang 14mm F2.4 doesn't have K-mount either. Are there reasons for this from Pentax? I just feel so disappointed that my K-1 can't find some of the best glasses.

09-19-2016, 02:49 PM	#10
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,609	Not enough demand / too few sales. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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09-19-2016, 01:24 PM	#2
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,253	Hopefully, the best glass will be in Pentax brand.

09-19-2016, 01:31 PM	#3
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by mir156 Why Sigma, Samyang stopped introducing K mount lenses? It is difficult to determine where Samyang is heading with their newest series. Notice that Nikon has been similarly "stiffed". As for Sigma, they have a recent tradition of not providing providing broad mount support across their product line. Canon, for example, is often left out in the cold. The reasoning is apparently driven by market research and sector competition. There is no return on investment if market is small and projected penetration is unlikely to offset costs. Steve

09-19-2016, 01:41 PM	#4
CarlJF Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Quebec City Posts: 1,185	This has been discussed many times and, simply put, the market size for Pentax lenses is too small to be profitable. you can read this interview with Sigma CEO explaining this: CEO explains why so few K-mount... Or, to make a long story short: Quote: Yamaki san expressed what I believe was very genuine regret that he isn't able to bring more of their lenses to the Pentax mount, but can only do so for the most popular models, that will generate enough demand to be produced sustainably. Hopefully, the introduction of KAF4 lenses may help make it easier for third party manufacturers.

09-19-2016, 01:42 PM	#5
mir156 New Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 17 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot It is difficult to determine where Samyang is heading with their newest series. Notice that Nikon has been similarly "stiffed". As for Sigma, they have a recent tradition of not providing providing broad mount support across their product line. Canon, for example, is often left out in the cold. The reasoning is apparently driven by market research and sector competition. There is no return on investment if market is small and projected penetration is unlikely to offset costs. Steve Agree with the reasoning. I was too optimistic when buying into the pentax system. In the foreseeable future the Irix 15mm F2.4 is my only hope for a decent UWA lens. ---------- Post added 09-19-16 at 01:44 PM ---------- Originally posted by CarlJF This has been discussed many times and, simply put, the market size for Pentax lenses is too small to be profitable. you can read this interview with Sigma CEO explaining this: CEO explains why so few K-mount... Or, to make a long story short: Hopefully, the introduction of KAF4 lenses may help make it easier for third party manufacturers. Thanks for the link.

09-19-2016, 01:55 PM	#6
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Originally posted by mir156 The recently announced samyang 14mm F2.4 doesn't have K-mount either. Are you sure this is forever? Because some Samyang primes were released in other mounts first, not K-mount, but some months later, K-mount was brought out as well.

09-19-2016, 01:57 PM	#7
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	Note that Samyang DID recently announce the 20mm f/1.8 in K-mount. It's just this new "premium" line that has (so far) only been announced for a handful of mounts. I just posted this in another thread, but Adam put it so well in a thread about the Samyang: Originally posted by Adam There seems to be a clear trend regarding third-party K-mount support: cheaper consumer lenses are typically made available, whereas high-end niche lenses aren't. Must be a reason behind this There's not enough of us, and not enough of us that are willing to pay for high-end glass.

09-19-2016, 01:59 PM	#8
DeadJohn Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New York Posts: 4,834	Originally posted by CarlJF Hopefully, the introduction of KAF4 lenses may help make it easier for third party manufacturers. KAF4 temporarily shrinks the already small k-mount market until many more of us purchase new bodies. If KAF3 didn't have enough users for Sigma and Samyang, KAF4 won't be any better unless Pentax recruits many new users.

09-19-2016, 02:19 PM	#9
mir156 New Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 17 Original Poster	Originally posted by Na Horuk Are you sure this is forever? Because some Samyang primes were released in other mounts first, not K-mount, but some months later, K-mount was brought out as well. Hope they add K mount to the 14mm F2.4 which has amazing MTF.

09-19-2016, 03:10 PM	#11
FantasticMrFox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Munich Posts: 2,339	Originally posted by CarlJF This has been discussed many times and, simply put, the market size for Pentax lenses is too small to be profitable. you can read this interview with Sigma CEO explaining this: CEO explains why so few K-mount... Or, to make a long story short: Hopefully, the introduction of KAF4 lenses may help make it easier for third party manufacturers. I agree - small market share and trouble adapting the lenses to the K-mount due to manual aperture coupling (a problem that with Nikon they accept because they make more money with them) seem to be the reasons Sigma has stopped support for Pentax. The aperture problem has been solved now and this may start to have an impact on Sigma's decisions once the majority of customers actually own cameras that support KAF4 (e.g. the K3 doesn't), and the K-1 hasn't been out long enough yet for Sigma to be able to gauge what it will do to demand for Sigma lenses. Maybe in one or two years time, Pentax' market share and demand will be high enough for Sigma to justify a a return to the K-mount.

09-19-2016, 03:49 PM	#12
nicoprod Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: New Berlin, WI Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 528	This is a shame for the 85... I was looking forward to only use my 77 to start a fire in the wilderness if needed...

09-19-2016, 03:53 PM	#13
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Pentax will probably have it's own 85mm under glass at photokina. Sigma wants to know what the demand for their new 85mm is first. If enough then maybe a K-mount.

09-19-2016, 08:12 PM	#14
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by FantasticMrFox I agree - small market share and trouble adapting the lenses to the K-mount due to manual aperture coupling (a problem that with Nikon they accept because they make more money with them) seem to be the reasons Sigma has stopped support for Pentax. For what it's worth, Sigma has been dealing with the aperture "problem" for about over 30 years. They have a high level of expertise implementing the feature. Steve

09-20-2016, 07:54 AM	#15
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	Originally posted by FantasticMrFox manual aperture coupling (a problem that with Nikon they accept Originally posted by stevebrot For what it's worth, Sigma has been dealing with the aperture "problem" for about over 30 years. They have a high level of expertise implementing the feature. If I'm reading correctly, the three latest Sigmas use an electromagnetic aperture in Nikon mount as well. The "problem" of mechanical aperture may just be an excuse, but they appear to have dropped it as quickly as possible. (Maybe all the people who were patient enough to deal with the fiddly mechanical bits have retired?)