[AnttiV]

Just to clarify this... It is not just for orientation and it is very useful back then, in the 35mm film days. In order to be accurate you have to mount those lenses at least on digital full frame cameras. It is measured and designed for film 35mm SLR's and not for APS-C or m4/3 sensors. If you do not believe me ask someone you trust and it is very knowledgeable about using SLR's as well as DSLR's and have experience on both systems.

Think just about regular car tires... Put the wrong size (height) and your speedometer is off...

Oooohh, I haven't even though about the sensor size affecting that. I've never owned a full-frame DSLR or a film-SLR so that never even occurred to me. Well you do learn something every day.
(that car tire size btw, people miss-judge that constantly. It actually has a really big effect on the speedometer. My brother has 3" difference in his summer vs winter tires. It shows.)

The Ricoh mount included a separate pin on it that can get the lens stuck on a Pentax DSLR but otherwise has no real impact.

The extra long guard on the mount may work just fine on older film cameras - some additional space has been taken over the years by extra contacts in the mount area. Typically that shield can be removed and or trimmed down to allow lenses to fit without causing problems.

The only 28mm-200mm I have ever seen in person is the FA version (Sigma made a version also). This lens is autofocus but inexpensive and of moderate quality. However on the mirrorless camera it may be less satisfactory to focus due to the limited amount the focus ring turns, the limited damening, and the relatively narrow aperture.

Prime lenses may focus with less problems than a large range zoom. The focus shift you mention is more than I would expect and seems likely related to the accuracy of the mount distance. I'm sorry but what you are asking for may need more precision which may be too much money. I would suggest perhaps splitting the zoom range and grabbing a 28-70 or 28-80 to pair with a 70-200 or 70-150.

Generally the wider the range the more compromised the design on a zoom.

One other option to consider is to specifically look for a parfocal lens. This will at least eliminate the focus shift you're seeing. It isn't clear if then it will focus across the board correctly, but it should be easier to see if it works.

Yeah I noticed once pointed out to me that there's a couple of pins in the K-m body where the guard should fit.. That just leaves the question of why it is longer in the first place (but not part of this thread, obviously)

The focus shift is.. fascinating. Not just because it exists, but particularly because it appears ONLY on these two lenses. It does not appear on any primes that I own, nor does it appear on any other zooms I own, 18-55, 35-80, 70-150, 75-200 or a 50-200. The only focus shift I'm experiencing is with a 200mm prime with a M42->PK adapter, but that's because it's a poor $1 adapter that changes the flange distance.

(also, for clarification, I didn't ask for anyone to "fix" it, I just wanted to know if there's is something different in the 28-> zooms vs. any other lens, because they seem to be the only ones with this focus shift I'm experiencing.)

I sold both a
TAMRON AF 28-105mm F4-5.6 Model 179D Not too heavy and auto-focus,
for £21 earlier this year as I preferred the Pentax-A 35-105mm I subsequently bought.
and a Vivitar 35-105mm Constant F3.5, heavy larger than the Pentax,
for £12.50 as it was replaced by that Pentax-A 35-105mm
I had been happy with both lenses until I found my preferred walk around lens (though it is not light!)
There are bargains out there, I did not lose any money...well very little.


One thing to remember about using lenses with Ricoh pins on your K-M, some of the Ricoh are rounded, some are not and will catch in your camera's screw drive aperture. Lots of posts about this on the Forum too.
Enjoy your legacy lenses on your K-M.

Oh bummer. I need to start checking this site more then Those are like REALLY great prices to me for those items. 28-105mm (AF?) for £21? Damned I would've jumped on such a deal... Except I need to factor in the shipping costs of course, but still. Oh well. I'll keep looking for the deals

---------- Post added 09-27-16 at 04:27 PM ----------

You're not alone in encountering this problem. I have the same lens and yeah, on my lumix G1 with PK adapter the lens only focuses to about 3m distance! And the similar 28-210mm (cosina made as opposed to kobori for the 28-200mm) is the same!

I'd understand that, in a way. But with my G3, the lens doesn't focus (@28mm) at ALL, I mean NOTHING is in focus, no matter the distance. It focuses to about ~2m when zoomed to ~40mm (about halfway between the 35mm and the 50mm mark). But wider than that it does not focus. At all. the flange/register distance should affect the lenses ability to focus to certain distance, but - correct me if I'm wrong - it shouldn't affect its ability to focus -at all-? (It's basically the same as adding an extension tube - the lens focuses nearer but not far, but adding extensions doesn't alter the lens so it doesn't focus -anywhere-) When I tried either of the lens @28mm, I couldn't get them to focus at all. At least you can focus to 3m I could've lived with that too, now that I think about it. If I need 28mm wide, I'm rarely focusing that close anyway, so I'd have counted that as a quirk that I need to live with, but now..

I was just looking for some posts and pics I made on mflenses but can't find them. I attribute this problem to these lenses being particularly sensitive to the adapter matching the registration distance of the lens. On pentax the RD is 45.54mm. It is typical of basic made in china adapters to err on the small side to make sure the lens focuses to infinity. But i am not sure why TBH..

Zoom lenses that only match the distance scale at the long focal length end are common - tends to be the cheaper lenses. For example the cheap tamron adaptalls 58A and 59A I have reviewed are the same:

Tamron Adaptall-2 28-70mm f/3.5-4.5 (59A and 159A) Lens Reviews - Tamron Adaptall Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database

If you had checked the review here on PF

Vivitar Macro Focussing Zoom 28-200mm f3.5-5.3 Lens Reviews - Vivitar Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database

You would already have found the answer to the lens mounting problem - large aperture lever guard

Yeah, I noticed that one. It just didn't even occur to me that a "PK mount" lens wouldn't fit a Pentax body - oh well now I know better.

I'll try to remove and/or file the guard and I'll let you know how it goes with my K-m.

FWIW these early viv superzooms are really optically quite good - I did some comparison pics against a DA 18-135mm and from 35mm up they held their own well.

That's what I mean (with the quality) - old glass is sometimes really great, and more often that not it is acceptable. I'm not a quality-seeker in that I've never felt that I needed to upgrade any lenses or bodies because I wanted more quality - it's more the other things (like now I really, REALLY would like to have a WR body + lens.)

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Last edited by AnttiV; 09-27-2016 at 07:07 AM. Reason: Pardon my French

[marcusBMG]

Found it:

Classic Vivitar Superzooms review: 28-210mm & 28-200mm

[UncleVanya]

I agree that if you get acceptable infinity at 200mm I wouldn't expect to have it fail at all distances at 28mm. I would expect you are having a bit of bad luck combined with some focus shift. But that doesn't explain the lens working on the Pentax.

[AnttiV]

Okay - it is the adapter + m43 combo. I removed the "Aperture-stick" guard and attached the lens to my K-m. And while not a particularly sharp lens (I didn't expect it to be), it isn't bad. That's a real let-down, because I originally wanted it for my G3. But at least now I can use it on the K-m. Manual focusing is a real pain with current DSLRs because they don't have the split focusing screens of old. (or in my case, Focus Peaking. Which is one reason I want a more recent body). I could get a focusing screen, but they aren't cheap either - and I much prefer to get to for a body that I know I'm gonna keep longer than "until I can get the next one as soon as possible"

This is a small (inside in low light, hand-held. 28mm/3.5, 1/13s, ISO800) 100% crop of a cardboard box about 3.5 - 4m away from me. Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
While not the sharpest - it is at least useable and in line of what I expected from it.

ps. Thanks marcusBMG for that link - at least now I know I'm not alone :P

[marcusBMG]

Some MF info:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/115-pentax-k-5/142241-best-screen-ever-ma...anon-ee-s.html

I have a tenpa 1.36x magnifier permanently on my K5

Viewfinder Attachments (Third-Party) - Pentax Camera Accessory Review Database

[AnttiV]

Some MF info:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/115-pentax-k-5/142241-best-screen-ever-ma...anon-ee-s.html

I have a tenpa 1.36x magnifier permanently on my K5

Viewfinder Attachments (Third-Party) - Pentax Camera Accessory Review Database

Thanks! I'm used to "stuff" on my focusing screen so I'm not sure I'd want a completely blank one.

but this magnifier sounds really interesting. I had a similar thing in my Sigma SD10 that I had years ago. Unfortunately the prices seem to be really, really different between what the reviewers have paid for them and what I'd need to pay... They run from $30 to $45 on that review page, and the cheapest I can find in ebay is $95... But I need to keep my eyes peeled for this one. Thanks!

[Kozlok]

The old 28-100 lenses are mostly crap. Old zoom lenses with a large zoom range are going to be sub par. Since they were cheap when new, they were not bought by professionals, and probably have a higher chance of having been poorly cared for. So a poor lens poorly cared for will have a high likelihood of being exceptionally poor now.

For old cheap glass, my opinion is prime lenses are the best bet. If you really want zooms, stick to something around 2x zoom. An M28-50 should be cheap and OK. If you want longer, the M75-150 seems to get decent reviews.

Tip: read reviews before buying. Buy from here on the forum where you are more likely to get honest deals and knowledgeable feedback. You won't find super bargains, but shouldn't get taken advantage of, either.

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Last edited by Kozlok; 09-27-2016 at 08:14 AM.

[AnttiV]

The old 28-100 lenses are mostly crap. Old zoom lenses with a large zoom range are going to be sub par. Since they were cheap when new, they were not bought by professionals, and probably have a higher chance of having been poorly cared for. So a poor lens poorly cared for will have a high likelihood of being exceptionally poor now.

For old cheap glass, my opinion is prime lenses are the best bet. If you really want zooms, stick to something around 2x zoom. An M28-50 should be cheap and OK. If you want longer, the M75-150 seems to get decent reviews.

Tip: read reviews before buying. Buy from here on the forum where you are more likely to get honest deals and knowledgeable feedback. You won't find super bargains, but shouldn't get taken advantage of, either.

So yours (and pretty much everyone else's also) opinion would be to forget the old long-range zooms and if I need one (I do, or more precisely I *want* one), I'd be much better off saving what I can and getting a newer lens?

Does that hold even with third-party lenses? I just checked and the Tamron 18-200mm F/3.5-6.3 XR LD Di II for Pentax is about 210€ locally. Is that something I might want to save for, or is Tamron still considered.. inferior? (I remember back when I had my Sigma and my brother had his Canon and pretty much everyone warned him to stay really far from any Tamron lens). They are really cheap and you usually get what you pay for, but...

[UncleVanya]

So yours (and pretty much everyone else's also) opinion would be to forget the old long-range zooms and if I need one (I do, or more precisely I *want* one), I'd be much better off saving what I can and getting a newer lens?

Does that hold even with third-party lenses? I just checked and the Tamron 18-200mm F/3.5-6.3 XR LD Di II for Pentax is about 210€ locally. Is that something I might want to save for, or is Tamron still considered.. inferior? (I remember back when I had my Sigma and my brother had his Canon and pretty much everyone warned him to stay really far from any Tamron lens). They are really cheap and you usually get what you pay for, but...

EVERY large range zoom is compromised compared to more modest zooms and primes. But Primes are ALSO compromised compared to some high end zooms and no one wants to admit that. Every lens is optimized. But the optimization varies. The best source of info is the review section of the site:

Pentax Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

The truth is that you decide what level of image quality you want. If the 28-200 gives you the quality you want - don't worry about it. the 18-200 is a nice lens, as is the 18-250, or the 18-270 - but they are not the same quality (in most people's opinions) as the 16-85 and the 55-300 as an example. On the other hand they may match the 18-55 for quality or even exceed it. And they bring great flexibility that may trump the improvement of image quality that using a dedicated high end zoom like the 20-40, plus the 50-135, plus a 200mm prime and a 300mm prime.

Everything is a compromise. Period.

[Bewatek]

Sorry i didnt fully understand that this is about using old zoom lenses. With "decent pentax glas" i meant a smc 28mm 2.8 for example, not a K1 with the 24-70 2.8 . I got mine for 60€ off an ebay auction with minor wear and i just love it.

As others said, it will be hard to find a film era Genericon (or any) 28-xxx zoom lens thats really good optically and mechanically. The ones available on ebay look exactly like the ones you could buy from mail order catalogues back in the day, for a fraction of the price of "brand" lenses. Film is more forgiving to optical errors and slightly missed focus, especially when viewed as 4x6" prints or smaller which of course was the common thing when these lenses were released. So if the markings at the widest end were not precise and/or not parfocal it did not matter much for the target customers these lenses were made for. Widest angle, f11, somewhere around infinity, done.

A 18-135 WR you mentioned too might be the best value for money lens for Pentax cameras, maybe even across all camera brands. Its good at and for anything, if i could have only one lens this would be it. Maybe its worth selling some of your existing lenses? If thats an option, it seems from your first post that you do have quite a lot of lenses?
I dont know for other areas but on german ebay a used 18-135mm with minor wear can be had for slightly under 200€ (220$) including shipping from a private person, i would take that over the 18-200mm tamron, although that is a perfectly ok lens too. And most important both are much, much wider than 28mm.

Edit: what about the pentax 18-55 and 50-200 combo? Both are cheaper than many old pentax zooms and are really decent and lightweight. Again at least on german ebay they can be had for 30-40€ each in the non-WR versions.

[marcusBMG]

There's endless choice. Nothing wrong with checking out some of these old viv's etc esp if the price is right ie 10 bucks or so... check em out, move em on if not so good/useful. I learnt a lot from checking out different lenses.

I like my alternative to the DA18-135mm - sigma DC 18-125mm. I also like many of the adaptalls.

Mirrorless + MF lenses is good - easy use of Av mode, quick magnified focus assist (I think you use the touch screen on the G3?)

[TwoUptons]

The 1990s-vintage Pentax FA 28-105 isn't terrible. It has a handy range, has an aperture ring, and was a decent upgrade from the contemporary 28-80.

There are multiple versions, and they are reviewed in the database.

It's nice having a lens that works as a walk-around lens for the K1 and the K1000...

-Eric

[AnttiV]

Sorry i didnt fully understand that this is about using old zoom lenses. With "decent pentax glas" i meant a smc 28mm 2.8 for example, not a K1 with the 24-70 2.8 . I got mine for 60€ off an ebay auction with minor wear and i just love it.

If you read the first post, I specifically mention two old zoom lenses and talk exclusively about them...

As others said, it will be hard to find a film era Genericon (or any) 28-xxx zoom lens thats really good optically and mechanically. The ones available on ebay look exactly like the ones you could buy from mail order catalogues back in the day, for a fraction of the price of "brand" lenses. Film is more forgiving to optical errors and slightly missed focus, especially when viewed as 4x6" prints or smaller which of course was the common thing when these lenses were released. So if the markings at the widest end were not precise and/or not parfocal it did not matter much for the target customers these lenses were made for. Widest angle, f11, somewhere around infinity, done.

I don't ask for anything that's "really good" in any way, actually. I'd be content about getting "OK" or even "eh, it'll do". If I buy a lens for $20, I don't expect it to work as good as a $2000 lens, or even a $200 one. But I do expect that it'll work as a lens (ie, focus *somewhere*). Funnily enough this "Widest angle, f11, somewhere around infinity, done." is exactly what those lenses DON'T do Zoom to 200mm, open up, focus close as possible (or anywhere) and you'll do fine. Both of them work pretty well zoomed to max and wide open. Zoom to widest angle and neither is anywhere near useful - everything is just blur (just look at the couple of example photos, and the thread marcusBMG posted).

A 18-135 WR you mentioned too might be the best value for money lens for Pentax cameras, maybe even across all camera brands. Its good at and for anything, if i could have only one lens this would be it. Maybe its worth selling some of your existing lenses? If thats an option, it seems from your first post that you do have quite a lot of lenses?
I dont know for other areas but on german ebay a used 18-135mm with minor wear can be had for slightly under 200€ (220$) including shipping from a private person, i would take that over the 18-200mm tamron, although that is a perfectly ok lens too. And most important both are much, much wider than 28mm.

That.. that is a really good price for that lens! Are you saying that's the WR version? for 200€? I -really- need to check German eBay then. (I'm from Finland, so inside EU everything should work fine and even the shipping costs have been decent from Germany to here) And I'm there with you on that if I only had one lens. That's the lens I fell in love with (on paper) when the K-30 was released. Actually the only reason I don't already own it is the fact that I bought my G3 without knowing Pentax would release the K-30 three weeks after my purchase...

Edit: what about the pentax 18-55 and 50-200 combo? Both are cheaper than many old pentax zooms and are really decent and lightweight. Again at least on german ebay they can be had for 30-40€ each in the non-WR versions.

Again, if you read the earlier posts, you'd notice that I already do own those and that this was specifically because I want a "walkaround" lens that wouldn't need to swap lenses while out. The 18-135mm WR would be *ideal* for me in that regard and if I'd get a WR body that would be near perfect. WR body + lens in that focal range and I wouldn't really need anything more 95% of the time.

Now, as you other Scandinavians and most of Europe (hello Brits, I heard you might sometimes have a bleak weather... ) already know, the weather around here is... not exactly clear all the time and usually of the variety that you DON'T really want to carry a $1000 non-WR equipment out in the open

There's endless choice. Nothing wrong with checking out some of these old viv's etc esp if the price is right ie 10 bucks or so... check em out, move em on if not so good/useful. I learnt a lot from checking out different lenses.

I like my alternative to the DA18-135mm - sigma DC 18-125mm. I also like many of the adaptalls.

Mirrorless + MF lenses is good - easy use of Av mode, quick magnified focus assist (I think you use the touch screen on the G3?)

Yeah mirrorless + MF lenses = fun & games. I really do love some of my old glass and I've noticed I do 99% of my shots in Av mode anyways (even with fully compatible lenses).

The 1990s-vintage Pentax FA 28-105 isn't terrible. It has a handy range, has an aperture ring, and was a decent upgrade from the contemporary 28-80.

There are multiple versions, and they are reviewed in the database.

It's nice having a lens that works as a walk-around lens for the K1 and the K1000...

-Eric

Thanks for the suggestion, 28-105 might be okay. I'll watch out for that. I found the 28-80 for *really* cheap yesterday and I think I could do with that in a pinch and at that price I might just as well go for it for the sake of testing If I get the 28-80, can you compare the 28-105 to it in that what should I expect from it if I ever find one? Is it equal to that or noticeably better?

[Bewatek]

Oh ok i just found the post where you mentioned the kit zooms. Before i really was confused why you didnt seem to have anything wider than 28.
I just checked ebay germany, if you are patient getting a 18-135 wr for under 200€ should not be a problem, if you want it now and a one year guarantee you can buy it from used retailers for 250€. Thats what i did, i also sold one 18-55 and the 50-200 to help fund it and never looked back.

[AnttiV]

Oh ok i just found the post where you mentioned the kit zooms. Before i really was confused why you didnt seem to have anything wider than 28.
I just checked ebay germany, if you are patient getting a 18-135 wr for under 200€ should not be a problem, if you want it now and a one year guarantee you can buy it from used retailers for 250€. Thats what i did, i also sold one 18-55 and the 50-200 to help fund it and never looked back.

Cheapest I could find that in ebay.de was 290€ + shipping. While that isn't a bad price for the lens I don't have that kinds of money, so I'll wait
If by retailers you mean local shops your prices over there are REALLY cheap compared to ours. That lens goes for ~400€ used from local retailers here.

Funnily enough it seems it's easier for me to buy a whole new camera kit brand new rather than a used lens Since I can have the new kit paid in installments over two or three years and the used one needs to be paid at once. (I'm not afraid to go for three year installments for a camera since I'm not upgrading that often. I went six or seven years with my Sigma SD10, my Lumix G3 is five in a few months.) It's still so much money that I'm not rushing in, but I may need to think heavily on that. Or at least wait for the K-70 release here and see how it affects prices.