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10-23-2016, 07:28 AM   #1
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Stacking HD 1.4 TC on a Tamron 70-200 f2.8 or the 1000€ Question

So I'm thinking of investing into a pro grade lens setup. Since I absolutely love the reach my 500mm f6.3 Mirror lens gives me I'm curious as to where to invest. Obvious choices are the 70-200; 200 f2.8; 300 f4 and 60-250mm. All of them are interesting in that they are very good lenses in the telephoto range and are not nearly as expensive as the professional ~450/500mm lenses.
I'm tending towards the tamron with a single TC as it will give me good reach, speed and lots of flexibility going from 70 to 280mm. Now since I don't want to spend double I'm looking as to how to go from there. Buying another TC to get to 400mm or would the next best thing to just get the 300/4? Looking for a cost effective setup to build up on rather than always selling the previous lens to get the next in line. IQ is important, but not professionally important.

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10-23-2016, 09:52 AM   #2
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I wouldn't stack TCs. In your shoes since you're looking at reach get the 1.4 tc and the DA* 60-250. Of course the best option where you are is the DFA 150-450, or just look for a used Sigma 150-500, which would be better and within your budget.
10-23-2016, 10:25 AM - 1 Like   #3
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What distance are the subjects you're typically capturing? The reason I ask is that most telephoto zoom lenses (including most 70-200 designs), and certainly the DA*60-250, use internal focusing and suffer from focus breathing. At close range, the 60-250 (for example) might only give you a 150mm field of view and magnification, whereas at greater distances, you'll get the full (or near enough full) 250mm. A prime like the DA*300 will give you the same field of view at pretty much any distance (or if there is any breathing, it's minimal)...
10-23-2016, 10:29 AM   #4
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The combination of the Rear Converter-A 1.4x-L with the DA*200/2.8 is nearly with no IQ loss. I stack this combination often with the HD Pentax-DA 1.4x AW AF Rear Converter to get a manual 392mm f5.6 with good IQ. It's my light weight travel combi

10-23-2016, 11:02 AM - 1 Like   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by VoiceOfReason Quote
I wouldn't stack TCs. In your shoes since you're looking at reach get the 1.4 tc and the DA* 60-250. Of course the best option where you are is the DFA 150-450, or just look for a used Sigma 150-500, which would be better and within your budget.
Well said! I have a Sigma 150-500 and it does a fine job and is far superior to my 500mm mirror. Used ones are around and it will give you more reach than a 70-200 with a TC. I can also think of lot of good reasons to own the 60-250 or one of the 70-200's that are available but buying one for the main purpose of adding a TC and using it as an ultra long telephoto will probably end in disappointment. If you only need a long telephoto occasionally then the TC can be an acceptable solution but if you're going to be shooting long a lot, buy a long lens.
10-23-2016, 11:12 AM   #6
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The 60-250 works very well with the HD DA 1.4x rear converter. Somewhat unexpectedly, I find myself using that combo for closer subjects (which makes up for the hefty focus breathing, to some extent) and running without the converter for longer distances.
10-23-2016, 12:04 PM   #7
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10-24-2016, 06:22 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
Well said! I have a Sigma 150-500 and it does a fine job and is far superior to my 500mm mirror. Used ones are around and it will give you more reach than a 70-200 with a TC. I can also think of lot of good reasons to own the 60-250 or one of the 70-200's that are available but buying one for the main purpose of adding a TC and using it as an ultra long telephoto will probably end in disappointment. If you only need a long telephoto occasionally then the TC can be an acceptable solution but if you're going to be shooting long a lot, buy a long lens.
That pretty much nails it. I think I'm mainly hesitant in investing into a long lens since I think of it as a limited use or "fun" lens. Subjects would be wildlife, so birds and anything alse with great fleeing distance. But I also want to educate myself further in terms of fotography so my brain says I should get a classic range of 70-200ish to educate myself further while my gut says a long lens is tremendous fun!
10-24-2016, 06:40 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by manufocus Quote
But I also want to educate myself further in terms of fotography so my brain says I should get a classic range of 70-200ish to educate myself further!
The thing is, 70-200mm is only a classic focal length range on a 35mm film or full-frame digital camera. If you want to gain experience of that using your APS-C cropped-sensor camera, you need something like the DA*50-135, which has a field of view equivalent to 75-202mm on full frame (the DA*50-135 was designed specifically for the APS-C sensor to give an equivalent field of view to the classic 70-200 on full frame). On full-frame, 200mm isn't all that long. With my (non-Pentax) full-frame camera I use a Tamron 150-600mm lens for long tele shots...
10-24-2016, 06:42 AM   #10
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My answer is explained in detail here.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/318152-answ...acked-tcs.html

But I have to say, this is not a cheap solution, this is a light weight solution as as such is somewhat more expensive than some of the zoom solutions. Personally I Love my 60-250, but I don't consider it to be a telephoto. At 10 feet it's only the equivalent of about 135mm, not getting to 250mm until it approaches infinity. I bought the F 1.7x AF Adapter one year, the HD DA 1.4 TC a few years later, and DA* 200 a few years later, so I never really suffered sticker shock. Buying them all at once, you might as well just spring for a 150-450 or 50-500, unless like me you're concerned about weight.

So just from my experience.

You can't get reasonable performance with stacked TCs without an ƒ2.8 lens. You can stack on an ƒ4 lens, but you'll be doing some futzing with the focus.
I hate carrying my DA* 60-250 because of the weight. The 70-200s and 150-450 are both quite a bit heavier.

Most of the guys I know using 70-200s are using Canons and using a 2x converter. I personally would not recommend any 70-200 ƒ2.8 type lens without planning to go to a 2x as a companion. That would give you 400 ƒ5.6, with AF, not too shabby. The DA*60-250 is not all that long, even with a 1.4 TC. I find it useful as a telephoto, only with the 1.7x on it, and then you have to fiddle with partial AF. That being said, the Sigma 150-500 or 50-500 are by far the most popular "I want to mess around with long lenses" option. Too heavy and clunky for my liking. But lots of forum members are happy with theirs.
10-24-2016, 12:59 PM   #11
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I'd have to add that my interest in photography is not in the 70-200 range specifically but rather generally. With the very long lens (500mm) I find it very easy to create good photos; the lens allows to easily make shots that are not accessible for the naked eye. Be it Dragonflys at great magnification or birds that are very small and easily scared away. So fotos have value just for the subject they capture. No chance for this using a 50mm lens ;-)

If going long, options that stay within the budget are:
Tamron 70-200 + TC
Pentax 200
Pentax 300 (used)
Pentax 60-250 (used) but seems not really suited in any case due to focal range loss at close quarters. (Pro Version of a walkaround)

Sigma 150-500 out of budget even used and simply not available
Sigma 50-500 very rare... also not that attractive, can't imagine a 10x zoom to perform that much better than a well aligned 500mm Mirror...

So I would conclude that going long ~500mm is at the moment not feasable while staying within the budget or within very good IQ.
Since the shots from the 200* with TC look simply amazing I'm gravitating towards this lens. Getting the lens now and a TC later. It won't give me the reach I might like but it would give me an excellent lens at 200mm and I can still keep the 500mm Mirror. Also *-glass ... I mean the tamron is nice and all... but a *-glass prime... droool....
10-24-2016, 01:26 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by manufocus Quote
I'd have to add that my interest in photography is not in the 70-200 range specifically but rather generally. With the very long lens (500mm) I find it very easy to create good photos; the lens allows to easily make shots that are not accessible for the naked eye. Be it Dragonflys at great magnification or birds that are very small and easily scared away. So fotos have value just for the subject they capture. No chance for this using a 50mm lens ;-)

If going long, options that stay within the budget are:
Tamron 70-200 + TC
Pentax 200
Pentax 300 (used)
Pentax 60-250 (used) but seems not really suited in any case due to focal range loss at close quarters. (Pro Version of a walkaround)

Sigma 150-500 out of budget even used and simply not available
Sigma 50-500 very rare... also not that attractive, can't imagine a 10x zoom to perform that much better than a well aligned 500mm Mirror...

So I would conclude that going long ~500mm is at the moment not feasable while staying within the budget or within very good IQ.
Since the shots from the 200* with TC look simply amazing I'm gravitating towards this lens. Getting the lens now and a TC later. It won't give me the reach I might like but it would give me an excellent lens at 200mm and I can still keep the 500mm Mirror. Also *-glass ... I mean the tamron is nice and all... but a *-glass prime... droool....
You should see the results some users, @Rupert comes to mind, get with the 50-500. I wouldn't dismiss it. It will surprise you.
10-24-2016, 02:12 PM   #13
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does it have to be an autofocus lens?

I find myself in a similar boat - looking at a longer, higher quality solution than the DA 55-300 (not a bad lens, but in lower-light situations, it's not good)... I am also looking at 200mm f2.8 (FA or DA) or 300mm f2.8 (Tamron 60B) or even 180mm f2.5 with teleconverters...
10-25-2016, 11:15 AM   #14
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As I read recently, there is no cure for wanting longer lenses, every lens won't be long enough at some point.
Taking that to heart I'm settled on the DA200. It's an excellent lens that fits my shooting style (prime), can handle a TC easily, allowing flexibility as an 200/2.8 and 280/4. Can handle a second TC, giving an 400/5.6 Option that still seems to work with AF, if the need should arise to shoot in that range at apparently still very good IQ. This effectively saves me buying the DA300/4, instead getting a second TC (would be around ~1000e saved ;-))
The DA200 + 1TC might not be as good IQ wise than the DA300. The DA200 + 2TC will very, very likely not be as good as a DA300 + TC. BUT it is definitely as fast! And gives all the range from 200mm to 400mm in an extremely lightweight unobtrusive package.

So what about the 70-200 f2.8? I figured there has to be some compromise and I really like shooting primes. So after reading a bit more about this lens (70-200) I came to the conclusion that it would fill the gap in my focal range on paper very neatly, but I guess ultimately I'll be more content with a lens I already have some experience(ish) with and enjoy the compromises it has.

For completeness my Lenses: 8mm/50mm/18-55mm/45-125mm/500mm I think I'll eventually get the 800mm/f8 Mirror lens as well... because at some point any lens is too short ;-)
10-25-2016, 11:26 AM - 1 Like   #15
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Hop over to DPR - Pentax SLR ( Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review ) and search for the string brandrx+tc+stack for lots of examples by the 'stack-master'. (RIP, Ron)
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