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11-20-2016, 04:05 AM   #1
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Avalanche of New Lenses: Third Party Pentax ......

Over the past few years there has been an avalanche of new third party lenses, but very few make it to Pentax mount. I'm getting frustrated by this. It seems the third party lenses coming out have gotten better and better, and now there's the Pentax KAF4 mount, it should be a simple conversion into Pentax mount without a mechanical aperture arm. There have even been new lenses and only Nikon and Canon get the lens as Sony is more focused on mirrorless now. So even Sony A mount is being ignored.

How do Pentaxians encourage Tamron, Sigma and Tokina into making small runs of these lenses.

Is there any way to find out if Sigma will do some limited runs on some of its lenses. Maybe if Pentaxians got together and effectively made a commitment by petitioning and maybe putting a deposit on lets say 150-600mm lenses, then maybe they'd do a production run.

I know what people will say, its marketing yadda yadda yadda......Pentax isn't selling enough cameras yadda yadda yadda. But does anybody know what will come out from Sigma, Tamron and Tokina ?

11-20-2016, 04:15 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by zoolander Quote
.Pentax isn't selling enough cameras yadda yadda yadda. But does anybody know what will come out from Sigma, Tamron and Tokina ?
That's far from being 'yadda yadda', it is the absolute fundamental issue. The development costs a huge chunk of cash and the market segment is too small to make that cash back with enough spare to make it worthwhile. Sad yes, unfair maybe. But simple truth, absolutely.

It's also far from a new subject on this forum and the answers have always been the same. A better solution than bemoaning the lack of third party lenses would either be to select a better supported brand, or to start up a lens manufacture business for Pentax only and see the money roll in...
11-20-2016, 04:42 AM - 1 Like   #3
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If they could make money out of the small number of Pentax owners, they would

Ditto for Fuji, Sony, Olympus and Panasonic owners. They have terrible third-party support.

Everyone should go with Canikon if they want the widest choice, that's life.

Not me, thanks.
11-20-2016, 04:58 AM   #4
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Maybe we'll see more Sigma lenses given the success of the K-1? I guess it'll depend on actual sales.

As for Tamron, I'm sure there's a deal in place, since Tamron supplies a handful of genuine Pentax lenses.

That said, there hasn't been much lack of support on the manual focus front: Samyang has launched lots of new lenses, and we've recently gotten the Irix 15mm F2.4, which is a great full-frame ultra-wide (especially for those who don't want to spend over $1k on the 15-30mm!).


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11-20-2016, 04:58 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by zoolander Quote
Avalanche of New Lenses: Third Party Pentax ...... Over the past few years there has been an avalanche of new third party lenses, but very few make it to Pentax mount. I'm getting frustrated by this. It seems the third party lenses coming out have gotten better and better, and now there's the Pentax KAF4 mount, it should be a simple conversion into Pentax mount without a mechanical aperture arm. There have even been new lenses and only Nikon and Canon get the lens as Sony is more focused on mirrorless now. So even Sony A mount is being ignored. How do Pentaxians encourage Tamron, Sigma and Tokina into making small runs of these lenses. Is there any way to find out if Sigma will do some limited runs on some of its lenses. Maybe if Pentaxians got together and effectively made a commitment by petitioning and maybe putting a deposit on lets say 150-600mm lenses, then maybe they'd do a production run. I know what people will say, its marketing yadda yadda yadda......Pentax isn't selling enough cameras yadda yadda yadda. But does anybody know what will come out from Sigma, Tamron and Tokina ?
Two lenses from some of the best third party lenses have been make for K mount: DFA15-30 and DFA24-70. Yesterday I saw the Tamron 15-30 for Canon at 1699 euros. It is available for the same price or cheaper as the Pentax DFA15-30 for Pentax + includes models of distorsion correction, vignetting correction and CA correction since it is Pentax branded.

Regarding the 150-600, if I was going to tell what I think...I don't know if it would be respectful. I use the DFA150-450 a lot, when taking care of vibrations, it is sharper than any test results published about this lens. I even use it with TC @630mm, and it is sharper than any of the maximum sharpness of any of the third party 150-600 @600. Do I need 600mm f6.3? No. When I use the DFA150-450 with TC, I already have more focal length than any of what pro are using for award winning shots.

So here is what I think: the 150-600 third party are more of a envy than any need from realistic shooting situations. I put all of those 150-600, 100-400, 200-500 zooms in the same basket, they are affordable, there isn't any significant difference between them, they aren't going to give you that extraordinary shot that you think is due to the lens whereas the beauty of the shot depends on the subject, lighting conditions, and ability to get close. For birds in flight, all those zooms won't cut it, because a high shutter speed needed and therefore belongs to the domain of >$5K lenses such as 300 f2.8, 400f2.8, 500 f4 lenses.

I agree on one thing: it is a pleasure to buy lenses, hence, some people may be frustrated to buy only a couple of the best lenses from Pentax while being unable to spread their money wider. I have to agree, since I only own the 5 DFA lenses from Pentax, I don't need any of the third party lenses even if available.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 11-20-2016 at 05:49 AM.
11-20-2016, 07:04 AM - 1 Like   #6
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i look at this a bit differently, namely what lenses do i want? personally i no longer feel like i need or want a ton of lenses. rather, ive tried over the last few years to find a greater understanding of how i shoot, the kind of rendering i like, and cull the herd to those few lenses that meet that criteria. i find there is something to the phrase 'jack of all trades master of none' when applied to lenses. after finding the few lenses that fit my above criteria, i am more concentrating on learning how to use them, what they can do and how i can get the most out of them. new for the sake of new holds absolutely no interest to me. by those criteria--certainly subjective and not for everyone!--i find way more than enough excellent pentax and third party lenses. between the fa and da limiteds and the zeiss zk, i can happily shoot and continue to learn for years.
11-20-2016, 08:09 AM   #7
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The lack of 3d party support is painful. Especially for those who are not in Pentax's target market of high end spenders for the FF. The 28-105 "kit" is $700 here in Canada.

ON the other hand the lens marketed as the kit lens for the 6D here the Canon EF 24-105 F4L is twice the price, which is the same as the NIKON AF-S NIKKOR 24-120MM F4G ED VR.

It is interesting that Pentax came in at a price point that's half the competitions, not ƒ4, not the same range, but half the price. Tamron undercuts them buy cutting the range down even more but goes to 2.8 which is a real bonus. The point here is It's not clear given the part of the market Pentax has traditionally aimed for, how much room is there for a 3rd party manufacturer, to come in with a product line?

Pentax is not a third party lens company, but it does seem to be a bit of a third party camera company. Lenses for Pentax made by Sigma and Tamron, would they then be fourth party?

Pentax is very price conscious in their offerings. That may be why it is harder for Sigma and Tamron to make money in K-mount. You're trying to out discount the discount brand.

My guess is apart from the 150-600 type lenses Sigma and Tamron don't have much to offer that is price competitive enough to give up the home field advantage of brand supported lenses. And my guess is, not a lot of folks are actually interested in those lenses. Walking out the door with those huge lenses is just a whole different thing than walking out with your K-3 and 18-135 or K-1 and 28-105. The fact that you like doing the later, doesn't mean you have any interest at all in doing the former. That segment of the market needs a huge user base to justify it's existence because of that user base, probably about 1 in a hundred are going to go down that road.

1/100 of a few million is a much better audience than a possible market of 20,000.

Pentax is in a real tight market segment. There's not enough room for a host of lens makers in that market.

You saved a lot of money buying a Pentax K-1 over a D810 or a Canon 5D mk4, and you saved a lot of money when you bought a 28-105 instead of a 24-105. But there is a limit to how far the Pentax gravy train can go. When you buy into the discount, you accept the limits.

Pentax is great up to it's limits. If you pay more, you can have fewer limits. But you have to buy your way into the fewer limits club.

Last edited by normhead; 11-20-2016 at 09:30 AM.
11-20-2016, 09:21 AM - 2 Likes   #8
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Eh, there is some Pentax K support. KAF4 is so brand new that you cannot expect third parties to already be using it to its full advantage.
Some manufacturers (like Lomo KMZ, Zeiss) have been asked and they stated that they will produce a lens in K mount if someone guarantees a certain buyout (something around 100 copies of a lens). So if you want a lens in Pentax K, all you have to do is find 100 others who are willing to put down money for that same lens (at the full price). Sigma or Tamron would probably require even more preorders, because they use a more complex mount with AF.

You have seen how well preorders work with that latest brass Dagurerratype 60mm lens.
That's all it takes. Individuals who want that lens and have the money ready, or entrepreneurs who buy many copies and sell them onwards. Find these people and you will get your lenses.

But so often we hear complaints from people who will never buy those lenses at the full price anyway.

There used to be a nice thread with a big, long list of all the current third party lenses available in Pentax K. I can't find the thread atm and it might be out of date anyway. But right off the top of my head, here are some third party lense manufacturers for Pentax K:
- Holga
- Lensbaby
- Diffraction/lens cap 'lenses' (Skink and other brands)
- Helios
- Horus Bennu
- Zenit/Zenitar
- Lomo (they made the two brass primes with aperture plates, right?)
- Arax (tilt shift primes)
- Schneider-Kreuznach
- Tamron
- Sigma
- Mitakon
- Samyang (also available under other brand names)
- Irix
- Laowa
How many of these have you bought (brand new, not used)?


Not to mention the many many legacy lenses, from Zeiss ZK, Voigtlander, and others; but those only indirectly make manufacturers come back, like in the case of Helios 40-2.
Most people only have a handful of lenses, with some collectors buying more of a certain brand or legacy series. Pentaxians are not so lens-starved as sometimes people want to say.


Last edited by Na Horuk; 11-20-2016 at 05:59 PM.
11-20-2016, 09:27 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Samyang has launched lots of new lenses, and we've recently gotten the Irix 15mm F2.4, which is a great full-frame ultra-wide (especially for those who don't want to spend over $1k on the 15-30mm!).


Yes, and it seems like the 11mm f4 should be available in PK, too.
11-20-2016, 01:08 PM - 1 Like   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
There used to be a nice thread with a big, long list of all the current third party lenses available in Pentax K. I can't find the thread atm and it might be out of date anyway. But right off the top of my head, here are some third party lense manufacturers for Pentax K:
We're soon going to restructure the third-party DB so that all current lenses are easy to find. There are quite a few of them if you add up all those brands!

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11-20-2016, 04:17 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Eh, there is some Pentax K support. KAF4 is so brand new that you cannot expect third parties to already be using it to its full advantage.
Some manufacturers (like Lomo KMZ, Zeiss) have been asked and they stated that they will produce a lens in K mount if someone guarantees a certain buyout (something around 100 copies of a lens). So if you want a lens in Pentax K, all you have to do is find 100 others who are willing to put down money for that same lens (at the full price). Sigma or Tamron would probably require even more preorders, because they use a more complex mount with AF.

You have seen how well preorders work with that latest brass Dagurerratype 60mm lens.
That's all it takes. Individuals who want that lens are have the money ready, or entrepreneurs who buy many copies and sell them onwards. Find these people and you will get your lenses.

But so often we hear complaints from people who will never buy those lenses at the full price anyway.

There used to be a nice thread with a big, long list of all the current third party lenses available in Pentax K. I can't find the thread atm and it might be out of date anyway. But right off the top of my head, here are some third party lense manufacturers for Pentax K:
- Holga
- Lensbaby
- Diffraction/lens cap 'lenses' (Skink and other brands)
- Helios
- Horus Bennu
- Zenit/Zenitar
- Lomo (they made the two brass primes with aperture plates, right?)
- Arax (tilt shift primes)
- Schneider-Kreuznach
- Tamron
- Sigma
- Mitakon
- Samyang (also available under other brand names)
- Irix
- Laowa
How many of these have you bought (brand new, not used)?


Not to mention the many many legacy lenses, from Zeiss ZK, Voigtlander, and others; but those only indirectly make manufacturers come back, like in the case of Helios 40-2.
Most people only have a handful of lenses, with some collectors buying more of a certain brand or legacy series. Pentaxians are not so lens-starved as sometimes people want to say.
Irix is so close to being in my wheelhouse. Weather resistant glow-in-the-dark primes at a fair price.
11-20-2016, 04:19 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Eh, there is some Pentax K support. KAF4 is so brand new that you cannot expect third parties to already be using it to its full advantage.
Some manufacturers (like Lomo KMZ, Zeiss) have been asked and they stated that they will produce a lens in K mount if someone guarantees a certain buyout (something around 100 copies of a lens). So if you want a lens in Pentax K, all you have to do is find 100 others who are willing to put down money for that same lens (at the full price). Sigma or Tamron would probably require even more preorders, because they use a more complex mount with AF.

You have seen how well preorders work with that latest brass Dagurerratype 60mm lens.
That's all it takes. Individuals who want that lens are have the money ready, or entrepreneurs who buy many copies and sell them onwards. Find these people and you will get your lenses.

But so often we hear complaints from people who will never buy those lenses at the full price anyway.
Pretty much what he said, it's a Catch 22 with 3rd party lens makers (they won't release new lenses in kmount because people won't buy what's available, and people wont buy anything because there isn't that much available). And it's true what he said, people *say* they want newer 3rd party options, but in the same breathe say they won't buy anything new that comes out.
11-20-2016, 04:23 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by disconnekt Quote
Pretty much what he said, it's a Catch 22 with 3rd party lens makers (they won't release new lenses in kmount because people won't buy what's available, and people wont buy anything because there isn't that much available). And it's true what he said, people *say* they want newer 3rd party options, but in the same breathe say they won't buy anything new that comes out.
The Tamron rebrands seem to be selling well enough. Do you think it's the added coatings? The weather resistance? The Pentax brand?
11-20-2016, 04:32 PM   #14
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I'm talking about 3rd party, not rebrands. Besides Tamron has pleny other new lenses they could release for pentax, but hasnt, and the lenses they do have available for pentax are close to what, 5 years old now?
11-20-2016, 04:36 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by disconnekt Quote
I'm talking about 3rd party, not rebrands. Besides Tamron has pleny other new lenses they could release for pentax, but hasnt, and the lenses they do have available for pentax are close to what, 5 years old now?
Okay. But I'm asking why do rebrands do better than 3rd party? Maybe people are more confident in quality control buying new? I've heard people say that the Pentax rebrands are pulled from the cream of the crop of the Tamron line. That would be a good reason to buy a rebrand.
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