Pentax - Thoughts on making a DA*/DFA 400mm F4?

angerdan · 05-21-2021, 01:22 AM

The DA 560mm has been discontinued in Japan (rumors say this).
DA560 production end / successor ? - Page 2 - PentaxForums.com

So the question about how Pentax could fill the Telephoto gap pops up...

Driline · 05-21-2021, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by cali92rs

Probably a lot more realistic is a 400mm f5.6
Canon has one and while a fine lens is in dire need of an update:
Canon EF 400mm f/5.6L USM Lens 2526A004 B&H Photo Video

I wonder how that compares with Pentax's A 400mm/5.6 other than the Pentax being of manual persuasion.

---------- Post added 05-21-21 at 12:54 PM ----------

Originally posted by Canada_Rockies

I'm still in the dark grey ages with my M 400/5.6. I would love a DA 400/5.6 with updated coatings and elements. Of course, DA* 300/4 + HD 1.7x already covers that and I do happen to have the AFA 1.7x that I have used on the M ....

Well come into the light with the NEWer Pentax A 400mm/5.6 like I did

reh321 · 05-21-2021, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by angerdan

There's a new thread about an possible FA400/4:
DA* 400mm F4 coming! - PentaxForums.com

I don't see any reason for reviving either this thread or the one you also revived on the DA 560mm.
I doubt if Pentax would sell enough of either size monster to justify making any more of them.

angerdan · 05-21-2021, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by reh321

I don't see any reason for reviving either this thread or the one you also revived on the DA 560mm.
I doubt if Pentax would sell enough of either size monster to justify making any more of them.

There are enough members who not only see a reson but also participate. This is a discussion forum, so now with the production stop of the DA560, there is a reson for many wildlife shooter.
Doubts are reasonable, but wishes too.
So let's continue a free discussion regarding to the thread title.

The only thing i do critisize is open new thread instead of using existing ones. This happens more often than threads getting abandoned.

angerdan · 01-09-2022, 05:34 AM

THere's some recent acitivity in the discussion about an 400mm f2.8, but i'm sure an 400mm f4.x would sell better.
Will we ever get a 400mm f2.8 lens for sports photographers? - PentaxForums.com

**Lowell Goudge** · 01-09-2022, 06:01 AM

I have read through all of this, and I confess I am not sure what the best way forward is.

Let me start by saying, after sitting on the fence for faster and longer than 400/5.6 (in my case sigma 70-200/2.8 EX with sigma 1.4x and 2X TCs) since 2003, I finally bought a DA560/5.6 in 2020

Over the time I was pondering my options I considered multiple times getting a sigma or Pentax 300/2.8 to pair with my sigma TCs, and even the 500/4.5, but in the end I am glad I didn’t.

The real issue is the hesitation in the screw drive, especially with the additional play of the TCs, you are always hunting just a little,

Ok a new lens with internal focusing motor would fix that, and a well matched 300/2.8 and 1.4x and 2x TCs would be the way to go in the future. But I think you are still looking at $4K to get this

The step from 400/5.6 (or the DFA 150-450/4-5.6) to anything else is an exponential one, and we already have enough options to get to 400mm with a 77mm front end

**Pål Jensen** · 01-09-2022, 06:02 AM

I think a 500/4 or 500/4.5 will sell better. Not that is is very likely I suspect....

angerdan · 01-09-2022, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

I think a 500/4 or 500/4.5 will sell better. Not that is is very likely I suspect....

A 400mm f4 is TC compatible and results in either an 560mm f5.6 or 800mm f4. And will still have a price tag more people could afford.

500mm f4 would cost up to $10k and result in lower sales than the 9 years avaliable DA 560.
Also it would we to slow to use it with TC in all light situations.

wadge22 · 01-09-2022, 07:54 PM

One thought that's come to my mind: what about a 200 f2 with dedicated 2x? I understand 400/4 after TC isn't really long enough (tho 600 equivalent after crop factor)... but wouldn't the additional usefulness of 200/2 as a portrait lens allow such lens to sell to more users, potentially? If 250 f2.5 were possible, so much the better. If the TC were built in, like some other brands have, well now we're really talking.
Anyhow, it's just another thought.

**Digitalis** · 01-09-2022, 08:15 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by wadge22

what about a 200 f2

You have got to be kidding, the Nikkor AF-S 200mm f/2G ED VRII weighs circa 2,900g. The Nikkor AF-S 500mm f/4E FL ED weighs around 3090 g, I can't claim to speak for everyone here but I'd prefer the longer, slower telephoto.

wadge22 · 01-09-2022, 08:43 PM

Originally posted by Digitalis

Nikkor AF-S 200mm f/2G ED VRII weighs circa 2,900g. The Nikkor AF-S 500mm f/4E FL ED weighs around 3090 g

And what's a good 2x teleconverter? Like 200 or 300 g, right? I'm not totally sure I get your point as you're laying it out there. I could see people wanting the longer lens because of reach, but the weight difference doesn't seem like a big factor. I doubt we're expecting Pentax to be class leading in size and weight if it ever releases a bird/sports lens.
Part of my point is that 200 f2 might appeal to an additional (also tiny) group of users, which might make the lens more viable.

I'm sure I'd be happy to own either option. And that I wouldn't be able to afford either option. Also that Pentax is unlikely to release either option.
So no, I'm not kidding, I'm just fantasizing and speculating like the rest of us in these threads.

**termy** · 01-09-2022, 08:52 PM - **1 Like**

sigh.

Actually, regardless of whether how many percent of Pentax users will actually buy, be it a 400/4, or a 300/2.8, or a 500/4.5.

The likely reality is, Pentax (Ricoh) ain't going to have any such lens coming out, be it 1year, 2years, 3years from now.

IF Pentax will even consider the following, will be considered very lucky for us >>

A) updating the DA*300 f4 with a better motor.

B) updating the FA*400/5.6 with motor, HD coating, or revamp it into a DFA*400 f4.5.

C) rebadging Tamron 150-600 G2
(to cater to users who want 600mm reach).
Or updating the FA 250-600, make it smaller and lighter.

D) updating the discontinued DA560, give it a better motor, turn that damn tripod foot to face in, and for goodness sake, use a few more of those tiny screws to secure the different sections together.

**Digitalis** · 01-09-2022, 09:28 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by wadge22

Part of my point is that 200 f2 might appeal to an additional (also tiny) group of users, which might make the lens more viable.

200mm is too long for portraiture* and too short for wildlife (without auxiliary optics). Why produce an expensive lens with such a limited appeal? at least a 500mm f/5.6 (that performed superbly wide open) would have a fighting chance in the increasingly niche K mount market.

* well at least before CoVid19, perhaps the need for social distancing will create a shift towards longer portrait lenses.

**Pål Jensen** · 01-10-2022, 04:30 AM

Originally posted by termy

C) rebadging Tamron 150-600 G2

Why not their own patented design of a 150-600/5-6.3 with optical stabilization?

01-09-2022, 07:54 PM	#69
wadge22 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: NE Ohio Photos: Albums Posts: 897	One thought that's come to my mind: what about a 200 f2 with dedicated 2x? I understand 400/4 after TC isn't really long enough (tho 600 equivalent after crop factor)... but wouldn't the additional usefulness of 200/2 as a portrait lens allow such lens to sell to more users, potentially? If 250 f2.5 were possible, so much the better. If the TC were built in, like some other brands have, well now we're really talking. Anyhow, it's just another thought. Last edited by wadge22; 01-09-2022 at 08:49 PM.

01-09-2022, 08:15 PM - 1 Like	#70
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by wadge22 what about a 200 f2 You have got to be kidding, the Nikkor AF-S 200mm f/2G ED VRII weighs circa 2,900g. The Nikkor AF-S 500mm f/4E FL ED weighs around 3090 g, I can't claim to speak for everyone here but I'd prefer the longer, slower telephoto. Last edited by Digitalis; 01-09-2022 at 08:22 PM.

01-09-2022, 08:43 PM	#71
wadge22 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: NE Ohio Photos: Albums Posts: 897	Originally posted by Digitalis Nikkor AF-S 200mm f/2G ED VRII weighs circa 2,900g. The Nikkor AF-S 500mm f/4E FL ED weighs around 3090 g And what's a good 2x teleconverter? Like 200 or 300 g, right? I'm not totally sure I get your point as you're laying it out there. I could see people wanting the longer lens because of reach, but the weight difference doesn't seem like a big factor. I doubt we're expecting Pentax to be class leading in size and weight if it ever releases a bird/sports lens. Part of my point is that 200 f2 might appeal to an additional (also tiny) group of users, which might make the lens more viable. I'm sure I'd be happy to own either option. And that I wouldn't be able to afford either option. Also that Pentax is unlikely to release either option. So no, I'm not kidding, I'm just fantasizing and speculating like the rest of us in these threads. Last edited by wadge22; 01-09-2022 at 08:53 PM.

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05-21-2021, 01:22 AM	#61
angerdan Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,639	The DA 560mm has been discontinued in Japan (rumors say this). DA560 production end / successor ? - Page 2 - PentaxForums.com So the question about how Pentax could fill the Telephoto gap pops up...

05-21-2021, 10:51 AM	#62
Driline Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: IOWA Where the Tall Corn Grows Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,695	Originally posted by cali92rs Probably a lot more realistic is a 400mm f5.6 Canon has one and while a fine lens is in dire need of an update: Canon EF 400mm f/5.6L USM Lens 2526A004 B&H Photo Video I wonder how that compares with Pentax's A 400mm/5.6 other than the Pentax being of manual persuasion. ---------- Post added 05-21-21 at 12:54 PM ---------- Originally posted by Canada_Rockies I'm still in the dark grey ages with my M 400/5.6. I would love a DA 400/5.6 with updated coatings and elements. Of course, DA* 300/4 + HD 1.7x already covers that and I do happen to have the AFA 1.7x that I have used on the M .... Well come into the light with the NEWer Pentax A 400mm/5.6 like I did

05-21-2021, 11:17 AM	#63
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by angerdan There's a new thread about an possible FA400/4: DA* 400mm F4 coming! - PentaxForums.com I don't see any reason for reviving either this thread or the one you also revived on the DA 560mm. I doubt if Pentax would sell enough of either size monster to justify making any more of them.

05-21-2021, 12:58 PM	#64
angerdan Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,639	Originally posted by reh321 I don't see any reason for reviving either this thread or the one you also revived on the DA 560mm. I doubt if Pentax would sell enough of either size monster to justify making any more of them. There are enough members who not only see a reson but also participate. This is a discussion forum, so now with the production stop of the DA560, there is a reson for many wildlife shooter. Doubts are reasonable, but wishes too. So let's continue a free discussion regarding to the thread title. The only thing i do critisize is open new thread instead of using existing ones. This happens more often than threads getting abandoned.

01-09-2022, 05:34 AM	#65
angerdan Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,639	THere's some recent acitivity in the discussion about an 400mm f2.8, but i'm sure an 400mm f4.x would sell better. Will we ever get a 400mm f2.8 lens for sports photographers? - PentaxForums.com

01-09-2022, 06:01 AM	#66
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,886	I have read through all of this, and I confess I am not sure what the best way forward is. Let me start by saying, after sitting on the fence for faster and longer than 400/5.6 (in my case sigma 70-200/2.8 EX with sigma 1.4x and 2X TCs) since 2003, I finally bought a DA560/5.6 in 2020 Over the time I was pondering my options I considered multiple times getting a sigma or Pentax 300/2.8 to pair with my sigma TCs, and even the 500/4.5, but in the end I am glad I didn’t. The real issue is the hesitation in the screw drive, especially with the additional play of the TCs, you are always hunting just a little, Ok a new lens with internal focusing motor would fix that, and a well matched 300/2.8 and 1.4x and 2x TCs would be the way to go in the future. But I think you are still looking at $4K to get this The step from 400/5.6 (or the DFA 150-450/4-5.6) to anything else is an exponential one, and we already have enough options to get to 400mm with a 77mm front end

01-09-2022, 06:02 AM	#67
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	I think a 500/4 or 500/4.5 will sell better. Not that is is very likely I suspect....

01-09-2022, 02:48 PM	#68
angerdan Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,639	Originally posted by Pål Jensen I think a 500/4 or 500/4.5 will sell better. Not that is is very likely I suspect.... A 400mm f4 is TC compatible and results in either an 560mm f5.6 or 800mm f4. And will still have a price tag more people could afford. 500mm f4 would cost up to $10k and result in lower sales than the 9 years avaliable DA 560. Also it would we to slow to use it with TC in all light situations.

01-09-2022, 08:52 PM - 1 Like	#72
termy Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 1,154	sigh. Actually, regardless of whether how many percent of Pentax users will actually buy, be it a 400/4, or a 300/2.8, or a 500/4.5. The likely reality is, Pentax (Ricoh) ain't going to have any such lens coming out, be it 1year, 2years, 3years from now. IF Pentax will even consider the following, will be considered very lucky for us >> A) updating the DA300 f4 with a better motor. B) updating the FA400/5.6 with motor, HD coating, or revamp it into a DFA*400 f4.5. C) rebadging Tamron 150-600 G2 (to cater to users who want 600mm reach). Or updating the FA 250-600, make it smaller and lighter. D) updating the discontinued DA560, give it a better motor, turn that damn tripod foot to face in, and for goodness sake, use a few more of those tiny screws to secure the different sections together.

01-09-2022, 09:28 PM - 2 Likes	#73
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by wadge22 Part of my point is that 200 f2 might appeal to an additional (also tiny) group of users, which might make the lens more viable. 200mm is too long for portraiture* and too short for wildlife (without auxiliary optics). Why produce an expensive lens with such a limited appeal? at least a 500mm f/5.6 (that performed superbly wide open) would have a fighting chance in the increasingly niche K mount market. * well at least before CoVid19, perhaps the need for social distancing will create a shift towards longer portrait lenses.

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01-10-2022, 04:30 AM	#74
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by termy C) rebadging Tamron 150-600 G2 Why not their own patented design of a 150-600/5-6.3 with optical stabilization?