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12-27-2016, 09:09 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by emalvick Quote
I'm more optimistic. I look at what Sigma has, and feel that Pentax/Ricoh will be smaller for a similar lens just because they generally put in that effort.

I won't take the size of a zoom lens as an indicator of a prime lens. Afterall, zooms are always on the big side.

---------- Post added 12-27-2016 at 08:03 AM ----------



I think the problem with a lot of the logic being thrown around is that when it comes to the lenses (primes especially), I suspect people with bodies like the K-3, K-70, etc might actually buy those lenses too. It may not be many given the likely price point, but K-mounts aren't just for K-1s.
The key is, how many K-mounts exist with a working camera behind them? That number is the 'Global Installed Base' of K-mounts; some fraction of that number represents the potential life-of-product sales of any given lens.

12-27-2016, 09:24 AM   #77
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emalvick: I'm not pessimistic. I just believe that their priorities might not match mine, for all lenses. I also believe we should be careful when expressing what we want (e.g. in surveys such as the one few months ago); an ultra-fast lens is not necessarily the best compromise.
And yeah, people are praising the new Nikkor 105mm f/1.4, but how many Nikonians are actually buying it?

Anyway, since I've just bought a bagpack for the 150-450 (LowePro Flipside 400AW, unfortunately the 300 didn't had any usable pocket), I have some extra room for a largish prime, or two, or a dozen
12-27-2016, 09:26 AM - 1 Like   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by emalvick Quote
I suspect people with bodies like the K-3, K-70, etc might actually buy those lenses too. It may not be many given the likely price point, but K-mounts aren't just for K-1s.
I think it has much less to do with the body in use than it does the experience and habits of the photographer. I started shooting film after zooms were common and never used, or even knew a prime existed, until a few years ago. Those that started with a 50mm prime on film are far more likely to understand the advantages and the prime lens paradigm.

I prefer zooms, that is what I started with and feel most comfortable with. So my primary lens will always be a zoom with a few primes for special circumstances. Others that started with primes may feel more comfortable with primes. The question is how many people that are zoom users can be convinced that buying a prime lens is worth the expense? Especially when even the most ardent prime supporters generally admit that an image from a top shelf zoom is indistinguishable from one shot with a comparable prime?

I use primes to fill in the places there is no comparable zoom. 50mm f/1.4? prime. 20mm f/2.8? prime. 100mm macro? prime. 135mm f/2.8? prime. 300mm f/4? prime. Hmm maybe I have more primes than I thought......................
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12-27-2016, 09:44 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by emalvick Quote
Afterall, zooms are always on the big side.
Have you seen the DA* 50-135?

12-27-2016, 09:46 AM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I think it has much less to do with the body in use than it does the experience and habits of the photographer. I started shooting film after zooms were common and never used, or even knew a prime existed, until a few years ago. Those that started with a 50mm prime on film are far more likely to understand the advantages and the prime lens paradigm.

I prefer zooms, that is what I started with and feel most comfortable with. So my primary lens will always be a zoom with a few primes for special circumstances. Others that started with primes may feel more comfortable with primes. The question is how many people that are zoom users can be convinced that buying a prime lens is worth the expense? Especially when even the most ardent prime supporters generally admit that an image from a top shelf zoom is indistinguishable from one shot with a comparable prime?

I use primes to fill in the places there is no comparable zoom. 50mm f/1.4? prime. 20mm f/2.8? prime. 100mm macro? prime. 135mm f/2.8? prime. 300mm f/4? prime. Hmm maybe I have more primes than I thought......................
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I was going to say, it isn't that difficult to imagine people making that shift. Like you, most of my dSLR experience was around zoom lenses. I did shoot some film with only 2 primes, but I was a teen and the novelty of digital and the ability to have a zoom lens was so appealing; I was naive when shooting film and unaware of zoom lenses (or much of anything at that age).

As I gained experience with my dSLR and my needs, speed became important, and I slowly bought a few primes here and there to fill out a lineup of f2 or faster lenses. There was also an appeal that the 5 primes I had were as a package as small as my top zoom lenses, so I shifted to all primes.

That may not be common, but I know I'm not the only one that has gone that type of route. Pentax has not developed many primes over the past 5 years, so I can see there being a bit more demand for them if they're hitting spots where there is need. The FA limiteds suggest that Pentax can make a DFA prime that is not necessarily too big for those of us in the APS-C world, which has the benefit of selling to more than just the K-1 people.

I, as still a K-3 person, will be interested in what Pentax might release in a faster 20-24 mm as I could use that FOV for APS-C.

The bigger issue, however, could be that I could easily buy the older FA 24 f/2 or Sigma 24/1.8, which wouldn't help Pentax at all but is a reality when you try to manufacture something new. The margin in improvement with new prime lenses doesn't always come across significant enough for the average hobbyist who may be willing to pick up the older generation of lenses for a fraction of the price yet 95% of the quality.

---------- Post added 12-27-2016 at 08:58 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by shardulm Quote
Have you seen the DA* 50-135?
Size is all relative, right? A zoom is almost always going to be bigger than a prime or two in the same focal range. Granted there will be some exceptions, but the exceptions are all going to be slow zoom lenses with variable aperture. With regard to the 50-135, I'm more than happy shooting with my 50/1.7 and 77/1.8 than carrying around the 50-135. But, it really is just a matter of preference.

I once spent a 5 mile hike shooting wildlife with a DA*60-250. It doesn't seem like a huge lens compared to some of the 70-200's out there, but I was still tired of having it on me by the end of the day. But I do recall at the time I bought it that I wasn't going to get a whole lot of weight benefit out of having a 200 or 300 mm lens. I also tend to stick with zooms are focal lengths I rarely shoot at. I generally shoot less than 100 mm, and have primes to cover my needs in that area.
12-27-2016, 09:59 AM   #81
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25 ultra-wide angle lenses per year sounds about right. Pentax only sold about 37 A 15/3.5 per year...and that was when they were selling a lot more cameras...
12-27-2016, 10:07 AM   #82
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The 28~105 is always on my K-1, which is unusual for me. Before this I carried 3 or 4 primes in a bag with a 35 on the camera. I only hav two manual zooms and the DA55~300 anyway, but the 28~105 is so good for most casual shooting that i don't need a prime (the FA Limiteds are in my bag).

I can imagine (though i won't do it) selling everything I own and having K-1, the four new zooms and the FA Limiteds.

12-27-2016, 10:16 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
25 ultra-wide angle lenses per year sounds about right. Pentax only sold about 37 A 15/3.5 per year...and that was when they were selling a lot more cameras...
That's going to be much the same with any of the specialty lenses. I bought my A15/3.5 in ~2004, very close to when they discontinued it. My lens was was custom built. I joked that it would be nice if they could put a small brass plaque with my name on it.
I believe my FA* 200/4 Macro was one of around 200 total units made.
12-27-2016, 10:39 AM   #84
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I wonder how many tilt shift lenses they would sell per year?
12-27-2016, 11:25 AM - 1 Like   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I wonder how many tilt shift lenses they would sell per year?
Three the first year. Less after that.
12-27-2016, 11:35 AM   #86
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The Prism overhang on Pentax cameras limits the tilt shift, unless you have a K-01

---------- Post added 12-27-16 at 01:37 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
The 28~105 is always on my K-1, which is unusual for me. Before this I carried 3 or 4 primes in a bag with a 35 on the camera. I only hav two manual zooms and the DA55~300 anyway, but the 28~105 is so good for most casual shooting that i don't need a prime (the FA Limiteds are in my bag).

I can imagine (though i won't do it) selling everything I own and having K-1, the four new zooms and the FA Limiteds.
How heavy would that bag be? My back hurts already.
12-27-2016, 11:59 AM - 1 Like   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
emalvick: I'm not pessimistic. I just believe that their priorities might not match mine, for all lenses. I also believe we should be careful when expressing what we want (e.g. in surveys such as the one few months ago); an ultra-fast lens is not necessarily the best compromise.
And yeah, people are praising the new Nikkor 105mm f/1.4, but how many Nikonians are actually buying it?

Anyway, since I've just bought a bagpack for the 150-450 (LowePro Flipside 400AW, unfortunately the 300 didn't had any usable pocket), I have some extra room for a largish prime, or two, or a dozen
That is the issue with forums online.. it is easy to request items or to complain about not having a feature. It is more difficult to take those requests, once granted, and ante up to the table by buying the items after they're released.

Take into consideration the 55-300 PLM. LOTS of requests for support for it on here.. lots of high fiving once Ricoh offered support on the K-50 and K-3 yet very few, if any, mentions of people buying this lens now...
12-27-2016, 12:54 PM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
How heavy would that bag be? My back hurts already.
That would need to be a roller bag for me.
12-27-2016, 01:08 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
How heavy would that bag be? My back hurts already.
Not as heavy as a K2, K28/3.5, K50/1.4, K105/2.8 and K135/2.5.

But honestly, I don't hike miles with a camera bag. I pretty much drive close to where I'm going to shoot and hike a few hundred yards, then move on. Sure, it limits me, but my vision is much more limiting.

The days of 50lb. packs are long behind me.
12-27-2016, 01:13 PM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by asahi man Quote
Co designed,but he is out of this design team.
Still Tamron,but not in the lens design team anymore.
Best regards
Thanks for the info, AsahiMan. Jun had a great career, I'm sure he can now relax into the role of Elder Statesman now.

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