[Bui]

Hi everyone,

We are traveling soon and this will be our first travel with a DSLR (I bought my Kx 4 months ago). We have a little 16m girl with all her stuffs (stroller, toys, milk ...) so convenience will be the key, so I decide to bring the 18-135 for most of photo thing and I think this is set. The only problem is during the nights, I think I will bring the DA 40mm 2.8 as this is the fastest autofocus lens I have, I have some 50mm 1.4, 1.7 or 2.0 but I have not yet mastered manual focus so maybe that's not a good idea.

Before purchasing the Kx I did some research and most reviews told me the Kx has great high ISO performance. However after using it for a while I'm not fully satisfied with that, so before packing I would like to ask you something (I also attach some night test photos I did last night):

- Is this noise abnormal with the Kx, meaning I don't have a good copy, or I'm expecting too much from a cheap camera (need to spend more)
- Pairing it with the DA 40mm 2.8, opening up + lowering ISO or stopping down + increasing ISO, what is better? (assuming I want to take street or landscape photos, don't care about DOF)?

Thank you.

(Photo 1-3: f4 iso 3200, photo 2-4: f2.8 iso 1600)

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Last edited by Bui; 04-27-2017 at 04:55 AM.

[mattb123]

The K-x had best of class high ISO performance when it was released in 2009. It's class is low cost SLRs.
Since then many newer cameras have been released, both in this class and more expensive, higher performing ones.

A faster lens like the DA 40 helps but like anything else in photography that is a tradeoff.
If you shoot it wide open at 2.8 you will be able to use a lower ISO for less noise but you will also have a shallower DOF which depending on the shot may or may not matter.

I used the K-x and DA 40 together quite a bit and thought they worked well together and it's a nice compact package.

If you really want high ISO performance above what you have you will need to get a newer camera.

[jatrax]

Personally I think those look quite good. Noise is as much a function of the ISO you are using as the sensor. Both have an impact.

I would not call the k-x a 'cheap' camera, when it came out it was very, very good although not a high end camera. However, it is quite old at this point and sensor technology has moved on. Unless you have the budget for a much newer camera I would suggest buying a tripod and shooting with a much lower ISO. On a tripod if the scene is static, no moving objects, the shutter can be open for a long time. So use ISO 100, on a tripod in Av mode and see if that noise cleans up a bit.

Another trick is to shoot in RAW and "expose to the right" by exposing your shot as bright as you can without blowing anything out. Then adjust in post processing to suite, this method gathers more light in the darker areas and thus there is less noise.

most reviews told me the Kx has great high ISO performance. However after using it for a while I'm not fully satisfied with that

The reviews were quite true, at the time the k-x had exceptional ISO performance. But comparing it to the k-3 and newer cameras is just not fair. Sensor tech has moved on.

[clackers]

or I'm expecting too much from a cheap camera (need to spend more)

Correct, Bui.

You bought an older camera.

I like the K-x ... I have one, and taking AA batteries is interesting, but the noise performance is 'of its time'.

The K-S1 is like an updated K-x, and prices of secondhand ones should be pretty good.

If you don't want to upgrade, for all the shots you've showed, choose ISO 100 and put the camera on a tripod. You'll get *much* better results.

[Na Horuk]

Before purchasing the Kx I did some research and most reviews told me the Kx has great high ISO performance. However after using it for a while I'm not fully satisfied with that, so before packing I would like to ask you something (I also attach some night test photos I did last night):

Yep, but that was back when it was released. The K-x was decent when new - but digital sensors have gone a long way since. Something like K-3 or K70 will give you better noise performance. Even a K-5IIs will be better, and K-1 better still.

- Pairing it with the DA 40mm 2.8, opening up + lowering ISO or stopping down + increasing ISO, what is better? (assuming I want to take street or landscape photos, don't care about DOF)?

I have a K-r, which has same sensor as K-x, and I think those photos have just about as much noise as you would expect from those settings. With cameras like K-r and K-x, I would generally avoid going over ISO 1600. I would prefer to use wider aperture than to raise ISO in most cases.
With cameras like K-5IIs, K-01, K-50, this limit is up to 3200, maybe 6400. But there are many things to consider.

Landscape photos? You do care about DoF. Keep aperture of at least f5.6, better yet around f8. Avoid going above f12, as diffraction will make the photo soft, fuzzy.
Street, as in people in cities? Shutter speed has to be relatively fast, and noise is not a problem, as it kind of "adds" to the urban atmosphere, especially if you use a Black and white style (Info, Jpeg mode). f3.2 or even f2.8 should be okay, if you can nail focus.
Night photos? I recommend you use 2 sec timer and a tripod for night photos, and keep aperture above f4 for landscapes. ISO should be 200 or 400. Generally you want ISO to be as low as possible, and if you have a tripod and no moving subjects, then you can have shutter speed of 30 seconds without any problem.

A lens that has slightly faster aperture and is still very affordable is the DA 50mm f1.8 (or a FA 50mm f1.4, if you can find one). The DA 50mm f1.8 is the same optical lineage as the M and A series 50mm f1.7, but the DA has new lens coatings for digital cameras, rounded aperture blades, and full automation.
I have the 40mm and I quite like its colors, contrasts, but rarely use it wider than f3.5. Almost never. In fact, most of my photos have stopped down aperture, because I try to shoot in good, bright light. But in a pinch, I open it to f2.8. Remember that the 40mm is a super compact pancake lens, so its aperture is relatively slow for a prime.

We are traveling soon and this will be our first travel with a DSLR

I think this is it. Basically, you took nice photos here, but you still have room to improve. To figure out the compromises between using slow or fast shutter speed, between using wide or narrow aperture, of raising ISO, or compensating for that with tripod, of selecting different Noise reduction (NR) options (check Menu, you can change these, though at the cost of detail), Dark frame noise reduction, SR and proper handholding... just don't worry about it. I think you have a fine camera, your photos are far from terrible, and you are on the right path. Just keep going If you want to spend a little more money to get a camera with slightly better noise performance, get one of the Pentax 16 MP cameras (K-5, K-5II, K-5IIs, K-30, K-50; just be careful with K-30 and k-50 not to get one with aperture problems) or an even newer camera (K-S1, K-S2, K-70, K-3, K-3II). Pretty much any of these will be slightly better than the K-x in pretty much every way, because technology continued to evolve. That said, lots of people love the K-x and still use it. For night photos, I would really recommend you get a tripod or monopod or at least really work on proper stance, handholding and give the SR enough time to activate (a little icon lights up when SR is fully active, after you half-press the shutter for half a second or so).

[bschriver11]

You need a tripod then you can shoot at any ISO or aperture you would like and you will get much better results. Your expecting to much from any camera cheap or not because there is a penalty for raising the ISO.Use the ISO when you need it and a tripod when it is needded.

[mattb123]

Something like the Ultrapod II would be enough for the K-x and it travels well. You would still need to put the tripod on something for non-ground level shots but I have found these to be super useful. You can also strap it to a pillar or tree if there isn't a suitable flat surface available. It's also light and inexpensive.

[jddwoods]

I also think your pictures look fine to me. What you can try is use a slower shutter speed which will enable you to lower the ISO down to 800 or lower, depending on the lighting conditions. I have had good luck with slower shutter speeds hand held with my DA 40 Limited since it is so lightweight and I do not have very steady hands. Its worth a try. A faster lens such as 50 mm F1.7 will help but it won't be a miracle fix.

[calsan]

They look about the same as you would get with the K-3 at the same ISO setting... No need to buy a new camera! The K-x you have is better at high ISO than the K-7 which was the flagship at the time yours was released. As the others said, a tripod / gorilla pod or just hold still against a wall at a lower ISO. If I'm in a hurry, I put my backpack on the ground and set the camera on top (have a pretty solid backpack).
If you like the scene and are worried about noise, get a bit of "insurance" by always taking multiple shots at different ISOs/ shutter speeds, it's better to have noise than blur that you don't see until you get home.
Also, have you tried experimenting with shooting RAW? I find you can go a long way towards noise free with a bit of processing. (I use the Pentax DCU that came with my camera).

[GeneV]

I've traveled quite a bit with the Kx, and I mostly used the DA ltd lenses. The DA 40/21/70 are a great match for the Kx in size and performance. Your photos show no more noise than I would expect from a JPEG from the camera. You can improve a bit by shooting raw and using Photoninja (an inexpensive option which emphasizes noise reduction) or another raw converter, and you could gain some sharpness with the DA 40, but the noise is well under control. I did find that the extra sharpness of the DA Ltd primes over the 18-55 I was using as a backup added clarity that seemed to make noise less noticeable, though I hardly ever used F/2.8.

It is hard to tell about noise on photos the size of the attachments (this shot below looks less noisy in the original size), but I was quite happy with the DA40 at night on the Kx at ISO 3200 F/3.2 1/13s. Of course, one does has to accept that night is night and things don't look as clear to your eyes at night, either. I think your noise is probably similar to mine, but I remember being thrilled to get good results at high ISO and slow shutter speed.

[Jonathan Mac]

As others have said, the K-x and DA 40mm combo is fine, but what you really need with those shots is a tripod. As a K-x with DA 40mm is quite light, the tripod needn't be big or heavy. My wife and I always travel with a tripod and you'll be glad you did - not only will it allow you to take night photos at ISO 100, but it will also mean that you can take family shots which include everyone in the family without relying on the presence or photographic skills of passers by.

[i_trax]

IMGP0035 | taken with Pentax K-30 + Samyang 85mm 1.4 in a da? | Flickr
ISO 3200, I was very impressed 5 years ago but I am still impressed now, great little camera.
I really like Sigma 17-70 2.8-4.5 Macro to go with K-x, you can get them used for well under $200.

---------- Post added 01-18-17 at 16:49 ----------

oops, that was not K-x that was K-30 sorry

[Na Horuk]

I'd like to tell a little more about shutter speed. Making the exposure longer, using a slower shutter speed, brings in a lot more light. The limit of the length of shutter speed is motion blur. For example, if you want a sharp photo of someone standing still - if the exposure is over 1 second, their movements will become apparent. If you want to photograph a tree, maybe you can get away with 1sec, but at 20sec, the wind will cause blur. Another limitation is handholding. The old rule of thumb is to use a shutter time of 1/focal length at minimum. For example, a 50mm lens would require at least 1/50 to get acceptably sharp photos while handholding. In modern times, with high pixel density sensors and high expectations, many go for 1/2*focal length, to be safe. The Shake reduction plays a role in this, but it comes down to how well you can use it and how shaky your hands are. Part of this is practice, part of this is technique, and part of this are bodily limitations of the person. I have hands that are slightly shaky, so I can't get away with 1/50mm for a 50mm lens. This is why I bring along a tripod. With a tripod, hands are not an issue. But you can still shake the tripod! For example wind, or people walking around it can cause a lot of shake. Even pressing the shutter button causes shake! This is why it is recommended to use 2 sec timer, hopefully in combination with a remote, to trigger night photos on tripod.

Reason everyone is telling you about night photos and tripods is because your sample photos are all night photos. For bright sunny days, you might not need a tripod. Though, tripod is a good choice to guarantee perfect sharpness and low noise.

[GeneV]

The strength of the Kx has always been its portability. I understand the reluctance to carry a tripod, and I seldom did. The DA40 more fits the package. Of course a tripod might make the shots sharper, but More often I went for bracing or accepting that night shots with an extremely easy to carry rig may not be the same as those taken in the day.

One other tip I have found which no one has mentioned is adjusting the exposure to underexpose a bit. The Kx would sometimes try to turn night into day (the nature of metering, to some extent). This creates a slower shutter speed and less sharpness. You can do more after the fact to deal with shadows than with motion blur.

[pres589]

I like the suggestion of shooting RAW. Using noise reducing software like the Nik Collection for Photoshop & Lightroom, available free from Google, would be useful as well. Have to be careful with that stuff as such software can reduce detail & sharpness, so it adds time to post processing to use such tools but I find it useful now and then.

A tripod or similar rig is key. If you have a good camera shop that's local, it may be useful to see what they have.