Tair-3 Phs - cleaning rear elementsS

**BigMackCam** · 02-21-2017, 03:12 AM

I'm working on a recently-acquired Tair-3 Phs which is in great condition, but the lens elements are dirty, dusty and have a few early spots forming.

I've managed to separate the optical "block" from the main housing, I've removed the front element and given that a gentle but thorough clean (it now looks perfect). But, I'm having trouble figuring out how to access the rear element. It is deep down inside a threaded tube, with a retaining ring securing it. The retaining ring is very, very stiff, but I *can* move it with a lens wrench, though it's taking an awful lot of effort. Before I go to the trouble and effort of unscrewing that all the way out (if I can), I'd like to make sure that I'm going about this the right way, or find out if there's a better way to access that element for cleaning.

Can anyone offer any tips or direction? Any help would be much appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

Attached Images

Last edited by BigMackCam; 02-21-2017 at 03:47 AM.

Audi 5 cyl · 02-21-2017, 04:12 AM - **1 Like**

The retaining ring on the rear lens is held by screws you can see on the exterior of the optical block. It will not move until those are unscrewed a bit. The rest is just a question of spanner, if it can reach the retaining ring or not.

Good luck and enjoy your lens, it's a good one.

**BigMackCam** · 02-21-2017, 04:57 AM

Originally posted by Audi 5 cyl

The retaining ring on the rear lens is held by screws you can see on the exterior of the optical block. It will not move until those are unscrewed a bit. The rest is just a question of spanner, if it can reach the retaining ring or not.

Good luck and enjoy your lens, it's a good one.

Thanks for the quick reply!

I had already removed the single screw that looked as if it may hold the retaining ring in place. But, thanks to your advice, I persevered with the spanner, a quarter turn at a time - holding the spanner steady, and rotating the lens on a piece of cloth on my work-surface. Took a bit of effort, but it came out fine, and I was able to remove the rear element with a suction tool. It cleaned up very nicely - not a mark on it now.

The lens is back together and working perfectly

Thanks again for your help

Audi 5 cyl · 02-21-2017, 08:25 AM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

Thanks for the quick reply!

I had already removed the single screw that looked as if it may hold the retaining ring in place. But, thanks to your advice, I persevered with the spanner, a quarter turn at a time - holding the spanner steady, and rotating the lens on a piece of cloth on my work-surface. Took a bit of effort, but it came out fine, and I was able to remove the rear element with a suction tool. It cleaned up very nicely - not a mark on it now.

The lens is back together and working perfectly

Thanks again for your help

Glad I could be of help.
When you know that there is nothing holding the retaining ring, and it is still not very easy to unscrew, heating the exterior of the lens barrel (hair dryer works for me) for a minute or so will expand the metal enough for it to let go. Many CZJ and USSR lenses often require heat treatment for things to go smooth. In other brands I had to heat up longer Mamiya Sekor lenses.

Regards,

Marko

**BigMackCam** · 02-21-2017, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by Audi 5 cyl

Glad I could be of help.
When you know that there is nothing holding the retaining ring, and it is still not very easy to unscrew, heating the exterior of the lens barrel (hair dryer works for me) for a minute or so will expand the metal enough for it to let go. Many CZJ and USSR lenses often require heat treatment for things to go smooth. In other brands I had to heat up longer Mamiya Sekor lenses.

That's good to know.

I'm gradually building up my experience with lens cleaning and re-lubricating - all with Russian and former Soviet Union lenses. Each lens I've serviced so far has taken way longer than it should, as - in most cases - it's the first time I've attempted them. So, I'll gratefully accept all the tips I can get!

Thanks again, Marko

**BigMackCam** · 02-21-2017, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by dcshooter

They are definitely the ones that seem to need it the most!

Tell me about it... especially the focusing helicoids. So much congealed, semi-hardened grease...

Audi 5 cyl · 02-21-2017, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

Tell me about it... especially the focusing helicoids. So much congealed, semi-hardened grease...

Russian lenses are often over-greased, I was getting even some out-of-the-box stuff that were over-greased in production. About soviet DIY there are stories to tell but some guys in Russia and Ukraine are doing great overhauls nowadays, a top notch work.
I would not neglect East-German here either. I once applied 3 Nm of torque to move the helicoid of CZJ Flek 4/20 without success. I took the optical block out, put it in 90% alcohol for 25 mins, still nothing. I cooked it in the end for about 10 mins and it started to move at 2.4 Nm after cooking. Strange stuff, I reckon it wasn't used at all for decades.

02-21-2017, 03:12 AM	#1
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,670	Tair-3 Phs - cleaning rear elementsS I'm working on a recently-acquired Tair-3 Phs which is in great condition, but the lens elements are dirty, dusty and have a few early spots forming. I've managed to separate the optical "block" from the main housing, I've removed the front element and given that a gentle but thorough clean (it now looks perfect). But, I'm having trouble figuring out how to access the rear element. It is deep down inside a threaded tube, with a retaining ring securing it. The retaining ring is very, very stiff, but I can move it with a lens wrench, though it's taking an awful lot of effort. Before I go to the trouble and effort of unscrewing that all the way out (if I can), I'd like to make sure that I'm going about this the right way, or find out if there's a better way to access that element for cleaning. Can anyone offer any tips or direction? Any help would be much appreciated! Thanks in advance! Attached Images Last edited by BigMackCam; 02-21-2017 at 03:47 AM.

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02-21-2017, 04:12 AM - 1 Like	#2
Audi 5 cyl Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: France Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 363	The retaining ring on the rear lens is held by screws you can see on the exterior of the optical block. It will not move until those are unscrewed a bit. The rest is just a question of spanner, if it can reach the retaining ring or not. Good luck and enjoy your lens, it's a good one.

02-21-2017, 04:57 AM	#3
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,670 Original Poster	Originally posted by Audi 5 cyl The retaining ring on the rear lens is held by screws you can see on the exterior of the optical block. It will not move until those are unscrewed a bit. The rest is just a question of spanner, if it can reach the retaining ring or not. Good luck and enjoy your lens, it's a good one. Thanks for the quick reply! I had already removed the single screw that looked as if it may hold the retaining ring in place. But, thanks to your advice, I persevered with the spanner, a quarter turn at a time - holding the spanner steady, and rotating the lens on a piece of cloth on my work-surface. Took a bit of effort, but it came out fine, and I was able to remove the rear element with a suction tool. It cleaned up very nicely - not a mark on it now. The lens is back together and working perfectly Thanks again for your help

02-21-2017, 08:25 AM	#4
Audi 5 cyl Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: France Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 363	Originally posted by BigMackCam Thanks for the quick reply! I had already removed the single screw that looked as if it may hold the retaining ring in place. But, thanks to your advice, I persevered with the spanner, a quarter turn at a time - holding the spanner steady, and rotating the lens on a piece of cloth on my work-surface. Took a bit of effort, but it came out fine, and I was able to remove the rear element with a suction tool. It cleaned up very nicely - not a mark on it now. The lens is back together and working perfectly Thanks again for your help Glad I could be of help. When you know that there is nothing holding the retaining ring, and it is still not very easy to unscrew, heating the exterior of the lens barrel (hair dryer works for me) for a minute or so will expand the metal enough for it to let go. Many CZJ and USSR lenses often require heat treatment for things to go smooth. In other brands I had to heat up longer Mamiya Sekor lenses. Regards, Marko

02-21-2017, 09:28 AM	#5
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,670 Original Poster	Originally posted by Audi 5 cyl Glad I could be of help. When you know that there is nothing holding the retaining ring, and it is still not very easy to unscrew, heating the exterior of the lens barrel (hair dryer works for me) for a minute or so will expand the metal enough for it to let go. Many CZJ and USSR lenses often require heat treatment for things to go smooth. In other brands I had to heat up longer Mamiya Sekor lenses. That's good to know. I'm gradually building up my experience with lens cleaning and re-lubricating - all with Russian and former Soviet Union lenses. Each lens I've serviced so far has taken way longer than it should, as - in most cases - it's the first time I've attempted them. So, I'll gratefully accept all the tips I can get! Thanks again, Marko

02-21-2017, 02:46 PM	#6
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,670 Original Poster	Originally posted by dcshooter They are definitely the ones that seem to need it the most! Tell me about it... especially the focusing helicoids. So much congealed, semi-hardened grease...

02-21-2017, 03:16 PM	#7
Audi 5 cyl Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: France Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 363	Originally posted by BigMackCam Tell me about it... especially the focusing helicoids. So much congealed, semi-hardened grease... Russian lenses are often over-greased, I was getting even some out-of-the-box stuff that were over-greased in production. About soviet DIY there are stories to tell but some guys in Russia and Ukraine are doing great overhauls nowadays, a top notch work. I would not neglect East-German here either. I once applied 3 Nm of torque to move the helicoid of CZJ Flek 4/20 without success. I took the optical block out, put it in 90% alcohol for 25 mins, still nothing. I cooked it in the end for about 10 mins and it started to move at 2.4 Nm after cooking. Strange stuff, I reckon it wasn't used at all for decades.