How will the new DFA85 1.4 be better than the FA85?

jake14mw · 02-26-2017, 06:57 AM

Hi All,

In looking at portrait lenses for Pentax, two that always come up in the discussion are the FA77 and the FA85. The FA77 is available new still, and the FA85 on the used market. In looking it seems that the FA85 has been selling for about $1000 used. In what ways do you guys thing the DFA85 will distinguish itself as being a better value than the existing lenses? Autofocus performance is not that critical with this type of lens. I guess that I am thinking that it needs to have better sharpness and better bokeh at the 1.8 - 2.8 range?

photoptimist · 02-26-2017, 07:33 AM

Although no one knows the exact performance of the new lens (maybe not even Ricoh if they are still in testing/iteration stages), it's likely to be designed to perform as well or better than the Sigma Art and Zeiss Otus versions of this FL & aperture. Thus, I'd expect to see much better corner-to-corner sharpness and less aberrations at all apertures. As for the bokeh, that's going to be any guess (I'd expect them to be good) and the internets will probably be arguing about it even AFTER the lens comes out.

LeRolls · 02-26-2017, 07:47 AM - **3 Likes**

I have been more than happy with the overall performance of my copy of the FA 85 so I will likely not be upgrading to the newer version. I very much doubt they will be able to improve upon the bokeh plus I have a feeling that it will cost noticeably more than $1000.

gm4life · 02-26-2017, 08:00 AM - **1 Like**

They are right this lens will likely push 1,250 or even slightly more for price. I know provided the price stays under 1,500 it will find a place in my bag. I am pretty sure sharpness, bohek will be out of this world good. I also expect across the frame sharpness too, especially for that kind of money. I just wonder how long till we see it. Then how long till it is sold to people like us!

Winder · 02-26-2017, 08:08 AM - **1 Like**

More resolving power, better contrast, better color, faster/quieter AF, less CA..... Bigger, heavier, more expensive.

btnapa · 02-26-2017, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by Winder

More resolving power, better contrast, better color, faster/quieter AF, less CA..... Bigger, heavier, more expensive.

+1. I agree on al the points

---------- Post added 02-26-17 at 07:44 AM ----------

Originally posted by jake14mw

In looking at portrait lenses for Pentax, two that always come up in the discussion are the FA77 and the FA85

I own the 77 and had a chance to shoot it side-by-side with an A85. Granted the 85 was manual focus. I was blown away by how close the color and sharpness was on these two lenses from different times. When I was post processing the RAW images, I had to look at the exif data to tell which was which... they were that close in image quality. Credit to Pentax for making two lenses so many years apart, different in design and manufactured time, to look so close in image quality.

**ramseybuckeye** · 02-26-2017, 09:19 AM

All Weather, at least I would assume

stevebrot · 02-26-2017, 09:30 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by jake14mw

In what ways do you guys thing the DFA85 will distinguish itself as being a better value than the existing lenses?

Throngs of pixies will sing whenever an image taken with the new lens is viewed. Seriously, the main difference I would expect in comparison to the FA* 85/1.4 is that the new lens will be available for purchase new. I would not expect the value or cult status of the older lens to change. As for the FA 77/1.8 Limited, the known differentiating factors are, ummmm, unknown at present. It is likely that the new lens will feature AW design, internal focus, in-lens focus and aperture motors, and size/weight comparable to the recently-revealed DA* 50/1.4 and similar 85mm offerings from other makers. I would expect that best-in-class optical performance would also be a design goal. Whether any of the above constitutes better value depends on price point and one's needs.

Note: Those concerned about the continued existence of the FA 77/1.8 Limited should consider that it was sold, side-by-side, with the FA* 85/1.4 for some five years and later, side-by-side, with The DA 70/2.4 Limited. All three lenses are unique and market-worthy in their own right.

Steve

aurele · 02-26-2017, 09:31 AM

Originally posted by LeRolls

I have been more than happy with the overall performance of my copy of the FA 85 so I will likely not be upgrading to the newer version. I very much doubt they will be able to improve upon the bokeh plus I have a feeling that it will cost noticeably more than $1000.

i was wondering, do you do any removing of frining in your pictures ? Because if not, the lens is really nice !

Smolk · 02-26-2017, 09:55 AM

The FA 85mm is designed for portraits, however less for landscape with infinity sharpness. So the character of the new lens may be different, assuming they will plop for overall sharpness. All this remains speculation of course, but the distinction between near and far subject sharpness is one to consider.
Then again weight. The new lens is less likely to be lighter.

LeRolls · 02-27-2017, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by aurele

i was wondering, do you do any removing of frining in your pictures ? Because if not, the lens is really nice !

Sometimes there is some fringing but it is easy to remove and yes the lens is very nice.

Nicolas06 · 02-27-2017, 11:53 PM

Originally posted by jake14mw

Hi All,

In looking at portrait lenses for Pentax, two that always come up in the discussion are the FA77 and the FA85. The FA77 is available new still, and the FA85 on the used market. In looking it seems that the FA85 has been selling for about $1000 used. In what ways do you guys thing the DFA85 will distinguish itself as being a better value than the existing lenses? Autofocus performance is not that critical with this type of lens. I guess that I am thinking that it needs to have better sharpness and better bokeh at the 1.8 - 2.8 range?

DFA85: Much bigger, much heavier, more expensive. Sharp to the corner at f/1.4. A more neutral rendering like other DFA rather than the FA rendering. Far less chromatic aberations.

More importantly vs the FA85, available new, with warrenty and easy to change it if you got a lemon.

An FA77 going to give you most of the DFA85 for significantly less money, less weight, smaller form factor and an a warmer FA rendering. You'll get some CA at times and I think less precise focus. That last point may be signfiicant wide open.

FA77 need maybe f/2-2.5 depending of your requirement to be really sharp on APSC. It is ok at f/1.8. On FF I think it look ever sharper at least on the center. But the strength of FA77 vs an f/2.8 zoom is the lovely rendering. Same for FA85 and likely DFA85, but the rendering will be different on the 3 lenses.

To know the lens you like much, you need to see picture take with the 3, a few hundred likely for the type of subject you are the most interrested with and then see what you tend to prefer.

The sharpness difference will not show if you don't zoom. So you the photographer will likely look at 100% crop and think it much more important than anybody else that will never ever see it. The AF difference may not be visible, as only keeper shall be available, but you may guess less keepers or perfectly in focus with FA77 and FA85 wide open. On day to day basis, the FA77 will be much more pleasant to use because of the size/weight. And that will be also the less costly. Potentially half the DFA85 price if you buy FA77 used.

By far I'd say for candids and walkaround and conveniance, the FA77 win hands on. For the studio, depend what rendering you prefer, but there no warranty what lens it would be.

Sandy Hancock · 02-28-2017, 12:57 AM

I'm still kicking myself that I returned a reasonably priced, mint FA*85 a couple of years ago because I couldn't deal with the size and weight....

**Rondec** · 02-28-2017, 04:11 AM

What Winder said. DFA will be more expensive, bigger, sharper wide open and will probably have less CA. Biggest question in my mind is rendering, which as Le Rolls has demonstrated many times over, is really stellar with the FA * at portrait focal lengths. With this narrow depth of field, I don't know that having edge to edge sharpness is key at 85mm and f1.4.

LeRolls · 02-28-2017, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by Sandy Hancock

I'm still kicking myself that I returned a reasonably priced, mint FA*85 a couple of years ago because I couldn't deal with the size and weight....

I think you'd have to pry the FA 85 from my cold dead hands before I'd give it up. I don't even think I'd trade it for the this newly announced version no matter how good it ends up being.

---------- Post added 03-01-17 at 01:27 AM ----------

Originally posted by Rondec

What Winder said. DFA will be more expensive, bigger, sharper wide open and will probably have less CA. Biggest question in my mind is rendering, which as Le Rolls has demonstrated many times over, is really stellar with the FA * at portrait focal lengths. With this narrow depth of field, I don't know that having edge to edge sharpness is key at 85mm and f1.4.

Agree on all points.

02-26-2017, 06:57 AM	#1
jake14mw Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Connecticut, USA Posts: 977	How will the new DFA85 1.4 be better than the FA85? Hi All, In looking at portrait lenses for Pentax, two that always come up in the discussion are the FA77 and the FA85. The FA77 is available new still, and the FA85 on the used market. In looking it seems that the FA85 has been selling for about $1000 used. In what ways do you guys thing the DFA85 will distinguish itself as being a better value than the existing lenses? Autofocus performance is not that critical with this type of lens. I guess that I am thinking that it needs to have better sharpness and better bokeh at the 1.8 - 2.8 range?

02-26-2017, 07:33 AM	#2
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,122	Although no one knows the exact performance of the new lens (maybe not even Ricoh if they are still in testing/iteration stages), it's likely to be designed to perform as well or better than the Sigma Art and Zeiss Otus versions of this FL & aperture. Thus, I'd expect to see much better corner-to-corner sharpness and less aberrations at all apertures. As for the bokeh, that's going to be any guess (I'd expect them to be good) and the internets will probably be arguing about it even AFTER the lens comes out. Last edited by photoptimist; 02-26-2017 at 09:54 AM. Reason: typo

02-26-2017, 09:30 AM - 2 Likes	#8
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by jake14mw In what ways do you guys thing the DFA85 will distinguish itself as being a better value than the existing lenses? Throngs of pixies will sing whenever an image taken with the new lens is viewed. Seriously, the main difference I would expect in comparison to the FA* 85/1.4 is that the new lens will be available for purchase new. I would not expect the value or cult status of the older lens to change. As for the FA 77/1.8 Limited, the known differentiating factors are, ummmm, unknown at present. It is likely that the new lens will feature AW design, internal focus, in-lens focus and aperture motors, and size/weight comparable to the recently-revealed DA* 50/1.4 and similar 85mm offerings from other makers. I would expect that best-in-class optical performance would also be a design goal. Whether any of the above constitutes better value depends on price point and one's needs. Note: Those concerned about the continued existence of the FA 77/1.8 Limited should consider that it was sold, side-by-side, with the FA* 85/1.4 for some five years and later, side-by-side, with The DA 70/2.4 Limited. All three lenses are unique and market-worthy in their own right. Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 02-26-2017 at 09:47 AM.

02-26-2017, 09:55 AM	#10
Smolk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Eerbeek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,857	The FA 85mm is designed for portraits, however less for landscape with infinity sharpness. So the character of the new lens may be different, assuming they will plop for overall sharpness. All this remains speculation of course, but the distinction between near and far subject sharpness is one to consider. Then again weight. The new lens is less likely to be lighter. Last edited by Smolk; 02-28-2017 at 02:38 PM.

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02-26-2017, 07:47 AM - 3 Likes	#3
LeRolls Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: PSL, FL Posts: 4,504	I have been more than happy with the overall performance of my copy of the FA 85 so I will likely not be upgrading to the newer version. I very much doubt they will be able to improve upon the bokeh plus I have a feeling that it will cost noticeably more than $1000.

02-26-2017, 08:00 AM - 1 Like	#4
gm4life Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 602	They are right this lens will likely push 1,250 or even slightly more for price. I know provided the price stays under 1,500 it will find a place in my bag. I am pretty sure sharpness, bohek will be out of this world good. I also expect across the frame sharpness too, especially for that kind of money. I just wonder how long till we see it. Then how long till it is sold to people like us!

02-26-2017, 08:08 AM - 1 Like	#5
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	More resolving power, better contrast, better color, faster/quieter AF, less CA..... Bigger, heavier, more expensive.

02-26-2017, 08:35 AM	#6
btnapa Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,615	Originally posted by Winder More resolving power, better contrast, better color, faster/quieter AF, less CA..... Bigger, heavier, more expensive. +1. I agree on al the points ---------- Post added 02-26-17 at 07:44 AM ---------- Originally posted by jake14mw In looking at portrait lenses for Pentax, two that always come up in the discussion are the FA77 and the FA85 I own the 77 and had a chance to shoot it side-by-side with an A85. Granted the 85 was manual focus. I was blown away by how close the color and sharpness was on these two lenses from different times. When I was post processing the RAW images, I had to look at the exif data to tell which was which... they were that close in image quality. Credit to Pentax for making two lenses so many years apart, different in design and manufactured time, to look so close in image quality.

02-26-2017, 09:19 AM	#7
ramseybuckeye Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hampstead, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 17,291	All Weather, at least I would assume

02-26-2017, 09:31 AM	#9
aurele Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Paris, France Photos: Albums Posts: 3,217	Originally posted by LeRolls I have been more than happy with the overall performance of my copy of the FA 85 so I will likely not be upgrading to the newer version. I very much doubt they will be able to improve upon the bokeh plus I have a feeling that it will cost noticeably more than $1000. i was wondering, do you do any removing of frining in your pictures ? Because if not, the lens is really nice !

02-27-2017, 08:39 PM	#11
LeRolls Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: PSL, FL Posts: 4,504	Originally posted by aurele i was wondering, do you do any removing of frining in your pictures ? Because if not, the lens is really nice ! Sometimes there is some fringing but it is easy to remove and yes the lens is very nice.

02-27-2017, 11:53 PM	#12
Nicolas06 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 4,854	Originally posted by jake14mw Hi All, In looking at portrait lenses for Pentax, two that always come up in the discussion are the FA77 and the FA85. The FA77 is available new still, and the FA85 on the used market. In looking it seems that the FA85 has been selling for about $1000 used. In what ways do you guys thing the DFA85 will distinguish itself as being a better value than the existing lenses? Autofocus performance is not that critical with this type of lens. I guess that I am thinking that it needs to have better sharpness and better bokeh at the 1.8 - 2.8 range? DFA85: Much bigger, much heavier, more expensive. Sharp to the corner at f/1.4. A more neutral rendering like other DFA rather than the FA rendering. Far less chromatic aberations. More importantly vs the FA85, available new, with warrenty and easy to change it if you got a lemon. An FA77 going to give you most of the DFA85 for significantly less money, less weight, smaller form factor and an a warmer FA rendering. You'll get some CA at times and I think less precise focus. That last point may be signfiicant wide open. FA77 need maybe f/2-2.5 depending of your requirement to be really sharp on APSC. It is ok at f/1.8. On FF I think it look ever sharper at least on the center. But the strength of FA77 vs an f/2.8 zoom is the lovely rendering. Same for FA85 and likely DFA85, but the rendering will be different on the 3 lenses. To know the lens you like much, you need to see picture take with the 3, a few hundred likely for the type of subject you are the most interrested with and then see what you tend to prefer. The sharpness difference will not show if you don't zoom. So you the photographer will likely look at 100% crop and think it much more important than anybody else that will never ever see it. The AF difference may not be visible, as only keeper shall be available, but you may guess less keepers or perfectly in focus with FA77 and FA85 wide open. On day to day basis, the FA77 will be much more pleasant to use because of the size/weight. And that will be also the less costly. Potentially half the DFA85 price if you buy FA77 used. By far I'd say for candids and walkaround and conveniance, the FA77 win hands on. For the studio, depend what rendering you prefer, but there no warranty what lens it would be.

02-28-2017, 12:57 AM	#13
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,272	I'm still kicking myself that I returned a reasonably priced, mint FA*85 a couple of years ago because I couldn't deal with the size and weight....

02-28-2017, 04:11 AM	#14
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,652	What Winder said. DFA will be more expensive, bigger, sharper wide open and will probably have less CA. Biggest question in my mind is rendering, which as Le Rolls has demonstrated many times over, is really stellar with the FA * at portrait focal lengths. With this narrow depth of field, I don't know that having edge to edge sharpness is key at 85mm and f1.4.

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02-28-2017, 11:23 PM	#15
LeRolls Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: PSL, FL Posts: 4,504	Originally posted by Sandy Hancock I'm still kicking myself that I returned a reasonably priced, mint FA85 a couple of years ago because I couldn't deal with the size and weight.... I think you'd have to pry the FA 85 from my cold dead hands before I'd give it up. I don't even think I'd trade it for the this newly announced version no matter how good it ends up being. ---------- Post added 03-01-17 at 01:27 AM ---------- Originally posted by Rondec What Winder said. DFA will be more expensive, bigger, sharper wide open and will probably have less CA. Biggest question in my mind is rendering, which as Le Rolls has demonstrated many times over, is really stellar with the FA at portrait focal lengths. With this narrow depth of field, I don't know that having edge to edge sharpness is key at 85mm and f1.4. Agree on all points.