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03-04-2017, 02:31 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
Less downsampled?
You nailed it, Brian.

That's if there *are* more pixels in the FF image. There are FF cameras that have less megapickles than APS-C cameras.

03-04-2017, 03:20 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
You nailed it, Brian.

That's if there *are* more pixels in the FF image. There are FF cameras that have less megapickles than APS-C cameras.
And there are cameras like the K-3 that have more pixels in the area of the crop. AN image like this taken today with the K-3 will be more of an oversample than a K-1, once you crop the image. On the K-3 it's uncropped. Unless you have an 800mm lens for your K-1, the K-3 has the oversample advantage.

Last edited by normhead; 03-04-2017 at 03:40 PM.
03-04-2017, 05:27 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
The pixels *aren't* bigger at all.

This is not film.

They will be rendered identically by the output device - 75 DPI or whatever.
Same difference, film or digital. If you are outputting at the same *dimensions*, from a lower-resolution source, you'll have lower output DPI. I was thinking more of a print than a screen image, but the difference could be apparent there too, as has already been discussed.
03-04-2017, 06:36 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by leekil Quote
Same difference, film or digital. If you are outputting at the same *dimensions*, from a lower-resolution source, you'll have lower output DPI. I was thinking more of a print than a screen image, but the difference could be apparent there too, as has already been discussed.
But in digital, you can get more resolution from a one inch sensor using base ISO, than you can from a K-3. The size of the sensor makes no difference to the amount you have to enlarge. Shoot with a sensor 1/4 the size of 35mm, you have to enlarge 4 times more to get the same size print.

With digital sensors the only thing that counts is lw/ph. A Panasonic lumix FZ1000 with a one inch sensor at 100 ISO will output 2600 lw/ph from a 20 MP file on a 13.2x 8.8mm sensor. (116.16 sq.mm)
Panasonic FZ1000 Review - Exposure

Any of us who ever tried to make an 8x10 out of a Minox negative know it's not the same.

A k-3 with 24 MP will produce about 2700 lw/ph up to 2900 with Pixel shift from a 23.5x 15.6 inch sensor.366.6 (sq.mm)
Pentax K-3 II Review - Exposure

At approx. 1/3 the size the the sensor provides the same resolution. So resolution is completely separate from sensor size. It doesn't matter that one sensor is 1/3 of the other, if they are the same size they will have the same resolution.There is no more magnification in one than the other.

To some degree this was also true of film, in that there were extremely high resolution microfiche films, but, they were only black and white and were extremely slow. There is a considerable difference.

With film, you would not have these two images...looking so similar, yet these are essentially the contact prints of the images.




IN film, you would have to magnify the negative 3 times more with the panasonic to produce the same size image. In digital, it is the file size of the Digital negative that determines how much you magnify one to match the other. There is no comparable attribute to a film negative that makes this possible. There is much more difference between different sensors than there was between different films, and that is a huge difference.


Last edited by normhead; 03-04-2017 at 07:17 PM.
03-04-2017, 08:53 PM   #20
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But this is not about about different-sized sensors with the same pixel resolution; it's about the image size produced by the K-1 in APS-C crop mode vs. the one by using the full frame.
03-05-2017, 06:31 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by leekil Quote
But this is not about about different-sized sensors with the same pixel resolution; it's about the image size produced by the K-1 in APS-C crop mode vs. the one by using the full frame.
If you limit your scope to that, then the K-3 is the better camera in terms of possible resolution and IQ. The K-1 would only be better in very low light, as the K-3 is the higher resolution source.

Last edited by normhead; 03-05-2017 at 07:15 AM.
03-05-2017, 05:15 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by leekil Quote
But this is not about about different-sized sensors with the same pixel resolution; it's about the image size produced by the K-1 in APS-C crop mode vs. the one by using the full frame.
Well, you can do the math on this to show that, say you're doing 300dpi on an inkjet, there will be no difference in the resolution of the full frame (7360x4912) and the cropped (4800 x 3200) images on 4"x6", 5x7, 8x10 or 10x12 prints.

You've virtually got to go to A3 before you can tell.

Looking on even a 4k monitor, same result, no difference in resolution between the images.
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