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08-08-2008, 01:05 PM   #1
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Lester A Dine 105mm f/2.8 1:1 Dental Macro

The LBA and ebay have made the sucker of me to bid this up for a high price and I have buyer remorse in buying this old lens instead of my original plan for a new Tamron SP 90mm f/2.8 1:1.


I have not tried the ring flash, do anybody known if the Dine Macro ring flash will work in K10D body.

I tested the lens, and the pictures so far are good but my expectation are higher than the pictures that I get. I can't seem to get good sharpness when I get closer to 1:1 focusing. I have more user errors, especially in focusing, with this manual lens than my previous attempts with other 1:2 lens.



#1


#2


#3
f/2.8 test in iso 400


#4
f/2.8 test in iso 400


#5


#6


Flickr Test Set

Lester A Dine 105mm f/2.8 1:1 Macro Test Shots - Hin's Tech Corner


The color and bokeh look good to me but I had a difficult time in getting sharpness from the lens without tripod and flash for the 1:1 Macro. I wish those who own the Vivitar/Kiron Series1 105mm f/2.8 can clue me in if they can easily hand-hold 1:1 shot with ease with their lens or not. Please share what you know about this lens so that my buyer remorse can go less.

Thanks,
Hin


Last edited by hinman; 08-08-2008 at 05:42 PM.
08-08-2008, 01:22 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by hinman Quote

... can easily hand-hold 1:1 shot with ease with their lens or not. Please share what you know about this lens so that my buyer remorse can go less.
No reason for remorse. The rules simply change as you approach 1:1. I know that you are already familiar with these things, but here they are for completeness:
  • 1:1 means extremely limited DOF
  • Limited DOF mean smaller apertures (generally f/8+, f/5.6 at minimum)
  • Smaller apertures means less light
  • Higher magnification means shake has greater affect
  • Less light + higher magnification means tripod and/or flash (best with both)

You might be able to do 1:1 hand-held with flash and maximum flash synch, but be prepared for image ghosting due to camera motion.

If after doing a series of test shots on tripod with flash, you are still dissatisfied, you should have no trouble selling your set-up. The Lester Dine, particularly with the ring flash is a hot item.

Steve
08-08-2008, 02:52 PM   #3
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Steve,

Much thanks for the encouraging words. Perhaps, all the great photos and discussions have gotten my expectations high and I forget how difficult it can get in 1:1 macro. The lens does have good off focus rendering, color is quite good.







At wider apertures, I can see PF/CA
f/3.2, PF in white hat and all shinny area



I will need to explore using the given ring flash and see if it corrects many of my blurred images due to user errors in focusing close to 1:1

Last edited by hinman; 08-08-2008 at 04:13 PM.
08-08-2008, 03:12 PM   #4
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1:1 is just about impossible w/o a tripod. Even w/ a tripod, it's a PITA to get what you want in focus :-P
So, yes, what you're seeing is normal w/ any 1:1 lens. The Dine is a nice old lens and I hope you appreciate the build quality as much as I do :-)

08-08-2008, 03:26 PM   #5
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You might want to check out this post

Wheel Bug-One of the Assassin Bugs

The bugs in question are pretty big, but the shots are hand-held with the Lester Dine at about 1:2 magnification.
08-08-2008, 06:21 PM   #6
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I had the Vivitar version of the 105 macro for a very short time and one thing I noticed is that it is heavy, so to get close up to it without a tripod and get decent pics may very well be almost impossible. On the other hand, the Tamron 90 weighs less than 1 lb, so I would assume that it would be easier to handle handheld (I haven't used it, so I can't say from experience).

Heather
08-08-2008, 06:33 PM   #7
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I had the exact same kit. Love the lens and only sold it because I have the Viv 105.

Yes the flash will work. I measured the trigger voltage on mine and it was under 5v, so it is safe. Tested it on my k200d and it worked well.
08-08-2008, 07:51 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by hwblanks Quote
I had the Vivitar version of the 105 macro for a very short time and one thing I noticed is that it is heavy, so to get close up to it without a tripod and get decent pics may very well be almost impossible. On the other hand, the Tamron 90 weighs less than 1 lb, so I would assume that it would be easier to handle handheld (I haven't used it, so I can't say from experience).

Heather
I see some people mention about the weight. The weight is bit less than Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 and so I have no problem with the weight. My problem is mainly on the focusing part once I get pass 1:2 magnification point from about 3 feet to 1.45 feet.

1:1 macro is perhaps not my cub of tea.

Hin


Last edited by hinman; 08-08-2008 at 08:53 PM.
08-08-2008, 07:55 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Light_Horseman Quote
I had the exact same kit. Love the lens and only sold it because I have the Viv 105.

Yes the flash will work. I measured the trigger voltage on mine and it was under 5v, so it is safe. Tested it on my k200d and it worked well.
That is comforting to know. But I will give the ring flash a try as when I get close to 1:1, the shutter speed in f/5.6 usually go below 1/60 of a second in iso 400 and with wind, my photos ends in blur due to slight movement to get off focus.

By the way, in your experience with both the Lester A Dine and that with Vivitar Series 1, do you see that they produce very similar results. And the other question is on PF/CA as I see a few showing up in f/2.8 and f/3.2 though a bit subtle to find.

Thanks again,
Hin

Last edited by hinman; 08-10-2008 at 10:22 PM.
08-08-2008, 08:24 PM   #10
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I give it a try with a tripod tonight


And I am someone who find tripod really getting into ways in framing. While it helps me in some way, I lose all the flexibility in framing the flower. I ended up leaving it unused in the efforts

I find myself not able to shoot 1:1 macro with a sharp photo. Some are okay when the wind cooperates. And I find better photos in using the lens in 1:2 magnification as I seem to do better



#1
in 1:1 with the 1.45 feet distance
very soft due to user error
1/1000 sec, f/3.2, 100mm (SR), 0 Ev, iso 400


#2
in 1:1
blur with user errors
1/250 sec, f/5.6, 100mm, iso 400, 0 Ev


#3
A bit overexposed but I like the bokeh in this 1:1 macro
1/200 sec, f/5.6, 100mm, iso 400, -1/3 Ev


#4
about 1:2, so much easier to focus and make the shot
1/250 sec, f/5.6, 100mm, iso 400, 0 Ev


#5
blurry in 1:1, hence the frustration
1/60 sec, f/5.6, 100mm, iso 400, -1/3 Ev


#6
1:2, better for focusing
1/320 sec, f/5.6, 100mm, iso 400, -1/3 Ev


#7
1:2, better for sharpness and easier to hand-hold


#8
1:2, easier to make the shot
1/500 sec, 100mm, iso 400, 0 Ev


#9
about 1:2


Flickr Test Set

Lester A Dine 105mm f/2.8 1:1 Macro Test Shots - Hin's Tech Corner



Apology for all the rambling, I hate doing 1:1 on the legendary lens with poor results. I need to explore the ring flash, perhaps a monopod to help with the focusing. Tripod really doesn't help me for the shots.

Thanks,
Hin

Last edited by hinman; 08-08-2008 at 08:45 PM.
08-08-2008, 09:07 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by hinman Quote
By the way, in your experience with both the Lester A Dine and that with Vivitar Series 1, do you see that they produce very similar results. And the other question is on PF/CA as I see a few showing up in f/2.8 and f/3.2 though a bit subtle to find.

Thanks again,
Hin
The IQ of both lenses is practically Identical. The main difference I found is that the extra half stop of the Vivitar just shows more CA.
08-08-2008, 09:18 PM   #12
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Hin,
Try photographing the flowers in a vase on a table area rather than in the yard. That may give you the degree of control for framing that you need. Use the ring flash or off-camera flash with reflector panels to control the lighting. Natural light will work, but it has to be fairly bright. It is so hard to attain accurate focus and control subject/camera motion!
08-08-2008, 11:48 PM   #13
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One thing to keep in mind is that this lens is over two fstops slower at 1:1 than it is at infinity. This means that at 1:1 you need ALOT of light. This makes it a 105mm F5.0 lens at 1:1.

I would try using your flash(es) more and stopping the lens down more for more depth of field.
08-09-2008, 12:26 AM   #14
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The thing about macro is that it is all trial and error.
I never use a tripod with my Vivitar or Tamron macro lenses (manual focus) as the thing just seems to get in the way (and 1:1 macro is more than possible without it) but you have to accept that you will lose a lot more shots than if you were using one.

THESE were done with a Tamron 90mm Adaptall 2 f2/8 mf macro and a Vivitar 2X macro teleconverter, I cannot tell you the magnification but it was a lot higher than 1:1. I didn't use a tripod for those.

Oh, and I normally use around f/16 when doing macro shots.
08-09-2008, 08:56 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by hinman Quote

#4
about 1:2, so much easier to focus and make the shot
1/250 sec, f/5.6, 100mm, iso 400, 0 Ev

Really nice background on this one.

I think you're already pretty close to getting usable 1:1 handheld macro with available light; bump the ISO up to 800, drop the shutter speed to 1/125 (let shake reduction do its thing), stop down to f/11 and you'll have a lot more depth of field to work with.

For the ring flash, you might want to try using offboard fill flash (in "dumb slave" mode so both flashes go off simultaneously) to illuminate the background -- some trial and error may be required to balance the two flashes.
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