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03-14-2017, 12:25 AM   #1
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Trusty DA 16-85 has kicked the bucket and bitten the dust...

Hello all,

My trusty and highly-enjoyable DA 16-85 purchased at the only brick and mortar for Pentax here in Paris, France in June 2015 has decided to play a dirty trick. A few days ago I grabbed my kit on the way out and noticed the barrels were very very sticky on the lens, making the zooming motion extremely imprecise. Then I noticed, at full extension to 85mm, that the barrels were loose and wobbly. Never saw this behavior before with this lens. To make things worse, at the short end of 16mm, a slight turn more with minimal pressure causes the lens to go "clack" and gain an extra "stop"...It just clicks in and out of some new position making an audible popping noise each time. I have never dropped or mishandled this lens, which is normal when you pay hard-earned cash for a piece of optics...

Needless to say, am very disappointed as I now own a FrankenLens. Contacted the retailer who had no idea what to say or do and has never offered a solution or any form of support (La Boutique Pentax in Paris). Ricoh Imaging France suggested I send it to their repair center for an estimate. Ricoh Imaging France now has 2 official repair centers here, PM2S near Paris and Nikken Techno France which is in Paris.

The other battle concerns the guarantee. The retailer and manufacturer offer a 1 year guarantee. However, in Europe there exists a law called "Consumer's Law" which extends the basic guarantee from 1 to 2 years. This has been helpful with Apple products who of course do everything possible to avoid repairing things under guarantee. This European directive or the legislative form of this law exists Europe-wide since about 1999. Ricoh Imaging has indicated that France only officialized the text in March 2016, making it applicable. Therefore, they argue that my lens is not covered by the 2 year warranty.

Currently, I'm awaiting news from the repair center and a final decision from Ricoh France.

Brgds.


Last edited by Davidparis; 03-14-2017 at 06:29 AM.
03-14-2017, 12:39 AM - 1 Like   #2
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Sorry to hear about the lens! I was under the impression that the EU warranty has been 2 years for a while, so the thing about March sounds like a bad excuse.

But even if the lens is covered under warranty, they might not repair it for free if they find "evidence" of physical damage. Best of luck!

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03-14-2017, 01:59 AM   #3
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I don't see how a four year delay by the French legislature in implementing the European law excuses them. They are obliged to honour the law from the moment it becomes such, not when they decide on the exact text in the local area (France).
03-14-2017, 02:29 AM   #4
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The two-year warranty is specified in EC Directive 1999/44/EC. As the name suggests, this was finalised in 1999. France did indeed delay its implementation, but only until 2005!

France Gets House in Order on Consumer Protection Laws (19th May 2005)

"In a move which belies its reputation of implementing EU consumer protection laws incorrectly and belatedly, France has not only modified its improper implementation of the Product Liability Directive (1985/374/EC), but has also implemented the Consumer Guarantees Directive (1999/44/EC), as well as the revised General Product Safety Directive (2001/95/EC)."

So unless I am misreading the situation, their claim that France only implemented the mandatory two-year warranty in 2016 borders fraudulence!


Last edited by FantasticMrFox; 03-14-2017 at 02:49 AM.
03-14-2017, 03:12 AM   #5
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I now know where to come with pesky legal questions.

Anyone here successfully challenge errant IRS decisions?
03-14-2017, 03:15 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
The two-year warranty is specified in EC Directive 1999/44/EC. As the name suggests, this was finalised in 1999. France did indeed delay its implementation, but only until 2005!

France Gets House in Order on Consumer Protection Laws (19th May 2005)

"In a move which belies its reputation of implementing EU consumer protection laws incorrectly and belatedly, France has not only modified its improper implementation of the Product Liability Directive (1985/374/EC), but has also implemented the Consumer Guarantees Directive (1999/44/EC), as well as the revised General Product Safety Directive (2001/95/EC)."

So unless I am misreading the situation, their claim that France only implemented the mandatory two-year warranty in 2016 borders fraudulence!
Would be nice, but no cigar. The French law for this was officially passed as Article L217-7 in an Ordinance passed on 14 March 2016. It specifies and legalizes the 24 month warranty. I think the general confusion and public ignorance on these questions always favor the retailer and/or manufacturer.

Last edited by Davidparis; 03-14-2017 at 03:24 AM.
03-14-2017, 05:44 AM   #7
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Please let us know the diagnosis, since we 16-85 owners are living with the belief that the DC motors are bulletproof. Yours sounds like a guide roller has gone AWOL and jambed it up. I hope.
03-14-2017, 06:25 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by FilmORbitz Quote
Please let us know the diagnosis, since we 16-85 owners are living with the belief that the DC motors are bulletproof. Yours sounds like a guide roller has gone AWOL and jambed it up. I hope.
Yes, I'll definitely report back on the final outcome.

03-14-2017, 06:53 AM   #9
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Good luck with the repair. I don't think I could live without my 16-85 DA lens. It is my favorite travel lens and as you mention, it is normally so smooth in its zooming action without lens creep. The symptoms you describe suggest something like the guide roller that FilmORbitz mentioned or internal bearings. Its actually quite a compex optical design.
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03-14-2017, 10:14 AM   #10
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Sorry to hear your lens is broken. I think I would be devastated if something like this happens to me.
I did consider ordering the 16-85 from fleabay but it's too much of a risk, and now when I read a story like this, it's basically out of the question.

I think it's completely unacceptable for the lens to fall apart by itself like that, even after 5 years. Are you sure no one else handled your camera and accidentally dropped it or something?
03-21-2017, 04:20 AM   #11
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Hello,

Just to update, the lens has been examined and an estimate for 285€ has been proposed. It entails, beyond general cleaning and alignment, replacing of a roller, helicoides and the motor (!). I have no idea why the motor would be replaced...Anyway, Ricoh Imaging France, after some discussion, decided to provide the parts free of charge and leave me liable for labor and shipping by the repair center. The new estimate comes to 151€.

I've decided to accept that, in spite of the fact that I think the case for pleading the Euro 2 year guarantee is still valid, but I have a trip to Kerala, India scheduled for early April and I'd prefer to take the DA16-85 rather than the DA18-135...

So, at this stage I'll just hope that the repair is solid and that the lens performs as before. I will recognize that Ricoh Imaging France did make an effort to help the customer.

Have a good one.
03-21-2017, 05:57 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Davidparis Quote
Hello,

Just to update, the lens has been examined and an estimate for 285€ has been proposed. It entails, beyond general cleaning and alignment, replacing of a roller, helicoides and the motor (!). I have no idea why the motor would be replaced...Anyway, Ricoh Imaging France, after some discussion, decided to provide the parts free of charge and leave me liable for labor and shipping by the repair center. The new estimate comes to 151€.

I've decided to accept that, in spite of the fact that I think the case for pleading the Euro 2 year guarantee is still valid, but I have a trip to Kerala, India scheduled for early April and I'd prefer to take the DA16-85 rather than the DA18-135...

So, at this stage I'll just hope that the repair is solid and that the lens performs as before. I will recognize that Ricoh Imaging France did make an effort to help the customer.

Have a good one.
Thanks for the update. While they gave some relief, it's a shame that you are on the hook because an improperly-tightened screw backed out and a roller went for a trip (and no other way this happens in absence of abuse). Their actual cost to repair is minimal, and surely many times less than the bad-will generated every time your story is read. Corporations need to get smarter in the world of social media.
03-21-2017, 07:07 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by FilmORbitz Quote
Thanks for the update. While they gave some relief, it's a shame that you are on the hook because an improperly-tightened screw backed out and a roller went for a trip (and no other way this happens in absence of abuse). Their actual cost to repair is minimal, and surely many times less than the bad-will generated every time your story is read. Corporations need to get smarter in the world of social media.
Well, here in Europe customers are "pigeons" and we are used to being "stuck with it" and paying outrageous prices for most everything we buy. The goofballs in Brussels with their 2 year warranty directive from 1999 still have not succeeded in having this become applicable to customers Europe-wide. So hey, you end up getting used to being abused. That said, in this context, i'm not entirely on the war path with Ricoh Imaging France and feel that did make some sort of effort. Secondly, I didn't make an issue of this anywhere or at anytime on social media, other than the post here on PF. I wasn't interested in causing a mess for a relatively minor problem that may end up less horribly than I had predicted. I just hope my lens works correctly when I get it back !

Last edited by Davidparis; 03-29-2017 at 12:09 AM.
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