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03-23-2017, 07:35 AM   #1
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Sigma zooms and possible autofoucus problems?

Hello fellow pentaxians!

I'm in the market for a telezoom, and have the possibility to buy two Sigma zooms....the 120-400mm F4.5-5.6, or 150-500mm F5-6.3.

However i'm reading about some having problems with autofocus and camera freezing on newer Pentax camera bodies....and that is worrying me a bit.


I'm planning someday to get myself a new camera, preferably a K1 body, but if any of these lenses has compatibility issues I will not buy either of them.


Does anyone use one of these lenses with a K1 without problems?


Appreciate any advice!

03-23-2017, 08:38 AM   #2
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I have the Sigma 150-500 DG OS. I have used it on a K-20D, K-5, K-5IIs, and K-3II. I have it on the K-3II now. I turn the OS (optical stabilization) on the lens body "Off" and the Pentax camera SR (shake reduction) "On" during use. It was recommended to me by a Sigma customer service agent to use one or the other, because if you use both at the same time they will counteract each other, causing possible function conflict during AF. I have gotten excellent results using the 150-500 for mostly wildlife including birds in flight, college soccer, plants/flowers and some landscape. If I want some depth for detail during shooting for shots, I use an F8 or higher number aperture.

If you have a specific question about Sigma 150-500 DG OS and Pentax K-1 compatibility, the customer service number for Sigma is 800-896-6858.
03-23-2017, 09:14 AM   #3
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The Sigma HSM/AF issues you've read about are firmware issues for the lenses which can be fixed with a quick trip back to Sigma. The issue is the body is reading the lens's EXIF ID and the current number is in conflict with other lenses - specifically lens ID 8.255 co-identifies as a 70-200 and a 24-70 (I think).

If you decide to buy a lens and have an issue, here's the fix: go to Sigma's webpage and put in a service request order to update the firmware of your lens. In their system, it's called the K-7 firmware update. Mail your lens in, they fix the firmware, they send the same lens back.

The firmware update just so happens to change the lens ID (not its original intent, but a side effect). Pre-update, my lens's ID was an 8.255. Post-update, it's an 8.16. This ID works flawlessly on K-1's.

I think from sending-to-return, the Sigma was out of my hands for 8 days.

I've used the following Sigma HSM models on my K-1 flawlessly:
* 70-200 HSM II
* 24-70 HSM
* 50-500 (loaner)
* 17-50 in crop mode

I had done the firmware update on the 70-200 prior to K-1 initial launch. People with the same lens, but pre-firmware update ID 8.255, had AF issues.

Don't let this be a thing that deters you from Sigma. I've had great dealings with their customer service group. And if there's an issue, there's a fix that's been discovered.
03-23-2017, 09:23 AM   #4
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I have the 50-500mm DG OS HSM and find it to be a fantastic lens, the 150-500mm is less expensive but still a very high quality lens and may actually be slightly sharper at the larger focal lengths than the 50-500mm. I'm just lazy, so having more reach was the reason I selected the 50-500mm. If you purchase Sigma for either of your selections you listed, I'm sure you'll be quite happy. Especially with the firmware fixes you can receive.

Would be nice if the USB dock supported those lenses to also allow you to manually update the firmware yourself, but Sigma has good service references so you should have fast resolution to the issue if your lens purchase is not already current when you purchase it.

03-23-2017, 09:23 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
Some very subtle changes were made on the K-1 mount and unfortunately left many lenses needing modifications or they simply will not work.
That sounds very strange. Is C.R.I.S. claiming that Ricoh uses a different mount face for the K-1 than on the K-3II or other current product? Or are they saying that the camera will not interface logically with some third-party lenses. The latter is known to be true.


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03-23-2017, 09:37 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by disasterfilm Quote
The issue is the body is reading the lens's EXIF ID and the current number is in conflict with other lenses - specifically lens ID 8.255 co-identifies as a 70-200 and a 24-70 (I think).
A list of known lensId mappings may be found at the ExifTool site. Simply search through the list for "Sigma" and note whether the id is shared with another lens or whether the id has a ".". (e.g. "3 25" maps to one Pentax, four Sigma, and one Tokina. The non-Pentax lenses are listed as "3 25.x".)

Pentax Tags: LensType


Steve
03-23-2017, 12:20 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
It appears to be a physical difference in the mount, as holding the lens release button in and pushing it a bit past the lock point establishes contact and communications correctly.
Well, that is very, very strange and has does not sound good.



Steve

03-24-2017, 06:18 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by disasterfilm Quote
The Sigma HSM/AF issues you've read about are firmware issues for the lenses which can be fixed with a quick trip back to Sigma. The issue is the body is reading the lens's EXIF ID and the current number is in conflict with other lenses - specifically lens ID 8.255 co-identifies as a 70-200 and a 24-70 (I think).
Thank you all for responding!
But where do I find the lens ID numbers exactly?

When I drop images onto exif tool,... There is no numbers under lens ID. Just stating the name of which lens is used.


Is it possible the lens will work without problems on a K1, or does all 150-500 have these lens ID issues?

Can I check the lens ID on that particular lens prior to buying it?

Last edited by fotofinken; 03-24-2017 at 06:31 AM.
03-24-2017, 06:39 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by disasterfilm Quote
The Sigma HSM/AF issues you've read about are firmware issues for the lenses which can be fixed with a quick trip back to Sigma. The issue is the body is reading the lens's EXIF ID and the current number is in conflict with other lenses - specifically lens ID 8.255 co-identifies as a 70-200 and a 24-70 (I think). .
8.255 is used for at least 6 lenses...

'8 255.1' = Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 EX DG Macro HSM II
'8 255.2' = Sigma 150-500mm F5-6.3 DG APO [OS] HSM
'8 255.3' = Sigma 50-150mm F2.8 II APO EX DC HSM
'8 255.4' = Sigma 4.5mm F2.8 EX DC HSM Circular Fisheye
'8 255.5' = Sigma 50-200mm F4-5.6 DC OS
'8 255.6' = Sigma 24-70mm F2.8 EX DG HSM

My Sigma 10-20mm F3.5 EX DC HSM also has a 8 255 identifier. It should be 8 11...My Sigma 150-500 has the correct identifier (8 15).
03-24-2017, 07:44 AM - 1 Like   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by fotofinken Quote
Thank you all for responding!
But where do I find the lens ID numbers exactly?

When I drop images onto exif tool,... There is no numbers under lens ID. Just stating the name of which lens is used.


Is it possible the lens will work without problems on a K1, or does all 150-500 have these lens ID issues?

Can I check the lens ID on that particular lens prior to buying it?
I don't remember how exactly I did it, but I found this tool online which will give you the information.

You can upload a JPG file here: online metadata and exif viewer. Look within the "XMP" column on the right side of the results page, and look for the LensID field.

You should be able to do this for the lens before you buy if the seller will send you a JPG file straight out-of-camera.

I have no clue if this problem even exists with the 150-500 (edit: according to boriscleto's post above, there may be a chance it's affected). All I know is, I don't know anyone that hasn't been able to find a solution. And the times that it's been an issue, a firmware fix was all it took.
03-24-2017, 07:54 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by disasterfilm Quote
I don't remember how exactly I did it, but I found this tool online which will give you the information.

You can upload a JPG file here: online metadata and exif viewer. Look within the "XMP" column on the right side of the results page, and look for the LensID field.

You should be able to do this for the lens before you buy if the seller will send you a JPG file straight out-of-camera.

I have no clue if this problem even exists with the 150-500 (edit: according to boriscleto's post above, there may be a chance it's affected). All I know is, I don't know anyone that hasn't been able to find a solution. And the times that it's been an issue, a firmware fix was all it took.
I found it...using verbose command in the exif tool.

So if I get a picture from the seller, taken with the lens, and it says lens ID is 8.255, it most likely will not work with an K1 (without an firmare update to 8 16)?

Last edited by fotofinken; 03-24-2017 at 08:00 AM.
03-24-2017, 08:13 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by fotofinken Quote
I found it...using verbose command in the exif tool.

So if I get a picture from the seller, taken with the lens, and it says lens ID is 8.255, it most likely will not work with an K1 (without an firmare update to 8 16)?
I think the 150-500 is an ID 8 15. If the exif says 8 15, I bet it'll function right out of the box. If it's a 8 255, I'd say there's a 25/75% split between working/not working. I made those numbers up, but I wouldn't say it's a sure bet that an update is needed. Also, it could be that it works fine in PDAF (through the viewfinder) but not in CDAF (through live view), or vice versa.

If it's a good price and great condition lens though, don't be afraid. A few days' extra shipping, at no cost to you, and you'd have it back working great.
03-24-2017, 09:07 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by disasterfilm Quote
I think the 150-500 is an ID 8 15. If the exif says 8 15, I bet it'll function right out of the box. If it's a 8 255, I'd say there's a 25/75% split between working/not working. I made those numbers up, but I wouldn't say it's a sure bet that an update is needed. Also, it could be that it works fine in PDAF (through the viewfinder) but not in CDAF (through live view), or vice versa.

If it's a good price and great condition lens though, don't be afraid. A few days' extra shipping, at no cost to you, and you'd have it back working great.

Great! Thanks a lot!

What is the difference between the two? The "OS" is in brackets...does it have anything to do with that?

'8 255.2' = Sigma 150-500mm F5-6.3 DG APO [OS] HSM

'8 15' = Sigma 150-500mm F5-6.3 APO DG OS HSM

Last edited by fotofinken; 03-24-2017 at 09:18 AM.
03-24-2017, 02:12 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by fotofinken Quote
When I drop images onto exif tool,... There is no numbers under lens ID. Just stating the name of which lens is used.
The id code is in the makernotes section under the tag name "LensType".


Steve
03-24-2017, 10:37 PM   #15
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I prefer primes, but I always carry a basic "travel photography two zooms kit" when I'm abroad. With APS-C cameras I used two f/2.8 Tamron zooms, but I've switched to Sigma's for my new K-1.
My Sigma f/2.8 24-70mm was fixed and software updated, and the 120-400mm OS was serviced for free (new bayonet and firmware). From my first tests both seem to work great.
From my experience the only problem with Sigma zooms is the way they are built. The plastic focusing and zooming elements that slide back and forth can be easily bent if the front of the objective gets knocked.
My first impression of the two full frame Sigma zooms has been very positive, although I still have to check AF registration with a proper tool. It seems to be fine, though.
While waiting to get back my lenses from Sigma Italy repair center I used an older 28-70mm f/2.8 EX DF. The AF was spot on and the image quality was much better than expected.
My experience with Sigma repair center has been very positive. Good communication and fast, professional service.
With specific regard to the 120-400mm, I think you'd be satisfied if you decide to buy one.
I can't bring with me too much stuff when I travel. My first shots with the 120-400 made me decide to replace with it the "huge zoom place" that was previously occupied by the Tamron 70-200mm f/2.8.
I'd bring both if I could, but I have limited room for lenses, so I have to make choices...
Considering I have with me a Leitz Summicron 90mm f/2 and a Meyer Trioplan N 100mm f/2.8 (both converted to PK), and that the K-1 has such a good high ISO performance, I opted for more focal range.

Cheers

Paolo

Last edited by cyberjunkie; 03-24-2017 at 11:47 PM.
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