Helios Help: 44-2 vs. 44M-4

amandarenee · 05-01-2017, 07:39 PM

Long story short, I bought one of these on a whim. I meant to get the swirly-bokeh-dream that is the Helios 44-2, but didn't realize the difference and ended up with a 44M-4.

The 44M-4 has some swirly bokeh wide open in macro shots, but nothing like what I've seen the 44-2 to be *supposedly* capable of. But, I would hate to shell out another $50-75 if the 44-2 doesn't actually do what I expect it to.......so, tell me, will any 44-2 have the fun swirly bokeh? (I understand that wide open + focus point more than 6-8' away is the sweet spot.)

Kozlok · 05-01-2017, 07:49 PM - **1 Like**

You also need the right background for the swirl to get really noticeable. Try some different shots.

The Helios lenses are just all-around fun, even without the swirl.

amandarenee · 05-01-2017, 08:16 PM - **1 Like**

It is still a fun lens, and I'm still figuring out how best to use it. I'm going to Sicily in 4 weeks, and trying to travel light, so I've been trying to decide which lenses go, and which stay!

I shot this a little earlier, and am pretty pleased with the result.

Cabessius · 05-01-2017, 08:30 PM

Generally, the older the Helios the more swirl you get (under the right conditions).
Go for a 44 or a 44-2, there are millions of them and they are very cheap.

LensBeginner · 05-02-2017, 12:44 AM

I have a 44-K4, which is the same as the 44-M4, only in K mount.
It swirls ok, even on APS-C, you just need to know ho to produce it.
(BTW be aware that there's a significant variance between samples of even the same models so no guarantees here).

Best swirl you get, as you said, wide open, with the subject relatively close, and a busy background a little further away.
Grass, the highlights among the foliage of a tree, the many lights of Christmas decorations are good examples of what works well in order to produce the "swirl".

**Skodadriver** · 05-02-2017, 01:03 AM

Originally posted by amandarenee

Long story short, I bought one of these on a whim. I meant to get the swirly-bokeh-dream that is the Helios 44-2, but didn't realize the difference and ended up with a 44M-4.

The 44M-4 has some swirly bokeh wide open in macro shots, but nothing like what I've seen the 44-2 to be *supposedly* capable of. But, I would hate to shell out another $50-75 if the 44-2 doesn't actually do what I expect it to.......so, tell me, will any 44-2 have the fun swirly bokeh? (I understand that wide open + focus point more than 6-8' away is the sweet spot.)

I do not have a 44M-4 but I do have a 44M and 44-2. I find the 44-2 has swirlier? bokeh but the -M is sharper.
If you use a wider aperture, keep the distance to the background much larger than the distance to the subject, you might have swirlier bokeh.
Keep looking, you should be able to locate a 44-2 for less than $20 and attached to an old Zenit camera!

sawitar · 05-02-2017, 04:26 AM

Copy of 44K-4 I have is swirly.
Someone mentioned that 44 series lenses get significantly more swirly if you turn front element over. Not sure how true this is tough.

LensBeginner · 05-02-2017, 07:19 AM

Originally posted by sawitar

Copy of 44K-4 I have is swirly.
Someone mentioned that 44 series lenses get significantly more swirly if you turn front element over. Not sure how true this is tough.

I've seen some examples, yes, but the quality loss is unacceptable, the lens just becomes a mush-machine.
http://www.verybiglobo.com/extremely-swirly-bokeh-short-tutorial/

Caveat:

Quote:

BTW, it might happen, that reversed glass will touch the elements bellow, but that is the price for this SFX adaptation and considering the price of Helios 44-2, I think you can live with it. In the worst case scenario, your adaptation might be permanent.

utak · 05-02-2017, 07:48 AM - **3 Likes**

My 44-2 is definitely swirlier than the 44M-4. You won't need to reverse the front element. But if you do.....here are two examples from my Helios 44 zebra (same design as the 44-2) with the front element reversed - quite an easy modification, and easy to reverse again to the right way round.

It may look like mush to some, and needs some aggressive processing, but it produces some fascinating light effects. Plus a few flying fairies in the first!

BTW of all the lenses I've tried reversing, the Auto-Takumar 35/2.3 produces the best combination of sharpness and swirls, but that's another story.

rjosephs58wt · 05-02-2017, 08:08 AM

I had a 44-2, which produced decent swirly bokeh, but I sold it. I picked up a 44k-4 and it does not produce as much swirly bokeh as the 44-2.
I wanted some extreme swirls so I picked up another 44-2 and modified it as the post above mentions. I get results similar to his shots as well.

Just an opinion, I'd go with a 44-2 if it is swirls you want.

**pepperberry farm** · 05-02-2017, 08:27 AM - **1 Like**

several threads on swirly bokeh also:

which lens best for swirly bokeh? - PentaxForums.com

Is your Helios 44 swirly? - PentaxForums.com

nosillec · 05-02-2017, 10:45 AM

I have a 44-2 which has slightly swirly bokeh. Nothing like the hurricane effect I see in some. I wouldn't really even call it swirly - just interesting with a suggested spin.

The lens came to me very clean & new looking. But the aperture ring turns the wrong direction (16 is wide open and 2 is closed) which makes me think that it was reconditioned which could have messed up the swirly magic.

I've attached a few photos. The first two are examples of not full on swirl but the impression of it. The other two are for the sake of comparison -1st is the Helios 44-2, 2nd is the DA 50. The M42 adapter allows some light leak which I've fixed with duct tape. I've only had my 44-2 for a few days but so far, I love it. I'm considered buying the MC44k-4 as well so that I don't have to worry about the M42 adapter.

dagoban · 05-02-2017, 03:38 PM

No always the conditions are ideal to get swirly bokeh, it's depends on some aspect. Older helios 44M lens are better for that effect but the latest 44M versions are sharper. I have 2 44M, a 1983 44M4 and a 1992 44M6. The first one (44M4) is better for swirly bokeh but second one (44M6) is sharper.

amandarenee · 05-02-2017, 08:15 PM

Thanks for all of the input, all! I shall likely just stick with the 44M-4 rather than further complicate my "pack light on lenses" plan for my trip.

In the meantime, I think some eBay stalking until a cheaper 44 -2 is in order...

05-01-2017, 07:39 PM	#1
amandarenee New Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Mesa, AZ Photos: Gallery Posts: 8	Helios Help: 44-2 vs. 44M-4 Long story short, I bought one of these on a whim. I meant to get the swirly-bokeh-dream that is the Helios 44-2, but didn't realize the difference and ended up with a 44M-4. The 44M-4 has some swirly bokeh wide open in macro shots, but nothing like what I've seen the 44-2 to be supposedly capable of. But, I would hate to shell out another $50-75 if the 44-2 doesn't actually do what I expect it to.......so, tell me, will any 44-2 have the fun swirly bokeh? (I understand that wide open + focus point more than 6-8' away is the sweet spot.)

05-01-2017, 08:16 PM - 1 Like	#3
amandarenee New Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Mesa, AZ Photos: Gallery Posts: 8 Original Poster	It is still a fun lens, and I'm still figuring out how best to use it. I'm going to Sicily in 4 weeks, and trying to travel light, so I've been trying to decide which lenses go, and which stay! I shot this a little earlier, and am pretty pleased with the result. Last edited by amandarenee; 05-01-2017 at 08:22 PM.

05-02-2017, 03:38 PM	#13
dagoban Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2013 Photos: Gallery Posts: 308	No always the conditions are ideal to get swirly bokeh, it's depends on some aspect. Older helios 44M lens are better for that effect but the latest 44M versions are sharper. I have 2 44M, a 1983 44M4 and a 1992 44M6. The first one (44M4) is better for swirly bokeh but second one (44M6) is sharper. Last edited by dagoban; 05-02-2017 at 03:55 PM. Reason: Edited to add pictures

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Which Helios-44 produces the best "swirl"... 44-2, 44M & 44M-4 tested	BigMackCam	Pentax Lens Articles	11	02-05-2017 11:34 AM
What to buy: Helios 44-2 vs. Helios 44k4 vs. 44m? I am confused	Lost Forever	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	16	06-03-2015 05:31 PM
Little test: Helios 44-3 vs 44M-7 and ST 55/1.8 vs 44M-7 vs SMC-A 50/1.7	malenisjaj	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	8	05-02-2015 01:01 PM
Sibling Rivalry: Helios 44M vs. Helios 44M-4	stevebrot	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	36	08-03-2013 09:31 AM
Helios 44M-7 vs. Helios 44-2?	tuan2195	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	12	05-24-2013 12:21 AM

05-01-2017, 07:49 PM - 1 Like	#2
Kozlok Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Albuquerque Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,148	You also need the right background for the swirl to get really noticeable. Try some different shots. The Helios lenses are just all-around fun, even without the swirl.

05-01-2017, 08:30 PM	#4
Cabessius Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Ibiza, Spain Posts: 471	Generally, the older the Helios the more swirl you get (under the right conditions). Go for a 44 or a 44-2, there are millions of them and they are very cheap.

05-02-2017, 12:44 AM	#5
LensBeginner Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,696	I have a 44-K4, which is the same as the 44-M4, only in K mount. It swirls ok, even on APS-C, you just need to know ho to produce it. (BTW be aware that there's a significant variance between samples of even the same models so no guarantees here). Best swirl you get, as you said, wide open, with the subject relatively close, and a busy background a little further away. Grass, the highlights among the foliage of a tree, the many lights of Christmas decorations are good examples of what works well in order to produce the "swirl".

05-02-2017, 01:03 AM	#6
Skodadriver Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Hampshire Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 892	Originally posted by amandarenee Long story short, I bought one of these on a whim. I meant to get the swirly-bokeh-dream that is the Helios 44-2, but didn't realize the difference and ended up with a 44M-4. The 44M-4 has some swirly bokeh wide open in macro shots, but nothing like what I've seen the 44-2 to be supposedly capable of. But, I would hate to shell out another $50-75 if the 44-2 doesn't actually do what I expect it to.......so, tell me, will any 44-2 have the fun swirly bokeh? (I understand that wide open + focus point more than 6-8' away is the sweet spot.) I do not have a 44M-4 but I do have a 44M and 44-2. I find the 44-2 has swirlier? bokeh but the -M is sharper. If you use a wider aperture, keep the distance to the background much larger than the distance to the subject, you might have swirlier bokeh. Keep looking, you should be able to locate a 44-2 for less than $20 and attached to an old Zenit camera!

05-02-2017, 04:26 AM	#7
sawitar Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 43	Copy of 44K-4 I have is swirly. Someone mentioned that 44 series lenses get significantly more swirly if you turn front element over. Not sure how true this is tough.

05-02-2017, 07:19 AM	#8
LensBeginner Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,696	Originally posted by sawitar Copy of 44K-4 I have is swirly. Someone mentioned that 44 series lenses get significantly more swirly if you turn front element over. Not sure how true this is tough. I've seen some examples, yes, but the quality loss is unacceptable, the lens just becomes a mush-machine. http://www.verybiglobo.com/extremely-swirly-bokeh-short-tutorial/ Caveat: Quote: BTW, it might happen, that reversed glass will touch the elements bellow, but that is the price for this SFX adaptation and considering the price of Helios 44-2, I think you can live with it. In the worst case scenario, your adaptation might be permanent.

05-02-2017, 07:48 AM - 3 Likes	#9
utak Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 928	My 44-2 is definitely swirlier than the 44M-4. You won't need to reverse the front element. But if you do.....here are two examples from my Helios 44 zebra (same design as the 44-2) with the front element reversed - quite an easy modification, and easy to reverse again to the right way round. It may look like mush to some, and needs some aggressive processing, but it produces some fascinating light effects. Plus a few flying fairies in the first! BTW of all the lenses I've tried reversing, the Auto-Takumar 35/2.3 produces the best combination of sharpness and swirls, but that's another story.

05-02-2017, 08:08 AM	#10
rjosephs58wt New Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: South Carolina Posts: 16	I had a 44-2, which produced decent swirly bokeh, but I sold it. I picked up a 44k-4 and it does not produce as much swirly bokeh as the 44-2. I wanted some extreme swirls so I picked up another 44-2 and modified it as the post above mentions. I get results similar to his shots as well. Just an opinion, I'd go with a 44-2 if it is swirls you want.

05-02-2017, 08:27 AM - 1 Like	#11
pepperberry farm amateur dirt farmer Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: probably out in a field somewhere... Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 41,678	several threads on swirly bokeh also: which lens best for swirly bokeh? - PentaxForums.com Is your Helios 44 swirly? - PentaxForums.com

05-02-2017, 08:15 PM	#14
amandarenee New Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Mesa, AZ Photos: Gallery Posts: 8 Original Poster	Thanks for all of the input, all! I shall likely just stick with the 44M-4 rather than further complicate my "pack light on lenses" plan for my trip. In the meantime, I think some eBay stalking until a cheaper 44 -2 is in order...