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05-07-2017, 06:46 PM   #16
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It is said my of my Tamron SP AF 300 2.8 LD [IF] that less than 100 were ever made. How much money did Tamron lose doing the R&D work to put that lens in K-mount? There's absolutely no way they made their investment back. Tamron has shown they are wiling to license to Pentax, but they want Pentax to cover the expenses that they would have to cover if they released the lens.

It's really quite simple. These companies get burned on a couple of lenses, lose money and that's it. They aren't charities.

05-07-2017, 07:21 PM   #17
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It's unfortunate but also a business reality. Once upon a time Pentax was one of the top brands worldwide. Today they have a much, much smaller market share. Also keep in mind that the camera market as a whole is shrinking and Nikon is suffering huge losses and the others are struggling too. You can't blame Sigma and Tamron for cutting production on slower selling products. It's a scary time.
05-07-2017, 07:37 PM   #18
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Last year there was quite an Internet buzz on the new K1. Many of the more popular reviewers rated it very highly, some even named it their camera of the year.

Unfortunately, that was not enough to prompt a mass movement of photographers from other brands to Pentax. The buzz quickly died down. Now I rarely read anything positive that's Pentax related on the more popular photo blogs. Only that our AF is not up to snuff, and we don't have enough modern AF glass.

I believe Pentax might be able to rekindle the buzz if their many new road map lenses receive excellent ratings from the Internet reviewers. I've got my fingers crossed...
05-07-2017, 08:52 PM - 1 Like   #19
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My optimistic opinion is that the K-1 will start to attract Nikon and Canon APS-C shooters who would like to go FF, but can't afford their brand's FF. A thread here at PF suggests it may already be going on:

For each Pentaxian buying K-1 another Nikon/Canon shooter jumped ship to Pentax

If that continues, then what caused Zeiss and Sigma to pull the plug on Pentax—economics—will be the very same reason they'll consider again issuing K mount.

05-07-2017, 09:38 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
Last year there was quite an Internet buzz on the new K1. Many of the more popular reviewers rated it very highly, some even named it their camera of the year.

Unfortunately, that was not enough to prompt a mass movement of photographers from other brands to Pentax. The buzz quickly died down. Now I rarely read anything positive that's Pentax related on the more popular photo blogs. Only that our AF is not up to snuff, and we don't have enough modern AF glass.

I believe Pentax might be able to rekindle the buzz if their many new road map lenses receive excellent ratings from the Internet reviewers. I've got my fingers crossed...
We've had members join this forum swapping brands courtesy of the K-1, Fenwoodian.

Naturally, it's a premium product so the number of them is of course small.
05-07-2017, 10:22 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by mhsp1948 Quote
Why Are Third Party Lens Manufactures Dropping Pentax? What's up?
My opinion is a combination of two major things.

1. I think Pentax is using a concerted effort to consolidate the market. I think Pentax is wanting people to use Pentax lenses. Ex: Tamron has a deal to manufacture lenses with the Pentax brand and part of that deal is that Tamron won't crowd the space. I wouldn't be surprised to hear of a similar deal with Sigma as well for some of the upcoming prime lenses. If they really do have that kind of deal in place prices can remain solid and profitability can be had by all.

2. The market share for Pentax is in fact smaller and doesn't warrant numerous major players in the space. Recognizing that see point #1 above.

All that said I believe Pentax is aggressively going for more market share but they are not doing so at the expense of profit margins. Pentax is not going for major on the shelf presence. They are seemingly focusing on online as their major B to C channels. Betting on brick and mortar for long term expansion is not a very smart business move. They are going after the market but they are doing it the Pentax way.
05-07-2017, 11:35 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by alamo5000 Quote
Why Are Third Party Lens Manufactures Dropping Pentax? What's up?
Because the ultimate corporate purpose of Sigma and Tamron is not to make K-mount lens' but to make a profit?


Last edited by wildman; 05-08-2017 at 12:16 AM.
05-08-2017, 02:10 AM   #23
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There are many people here who have a lot more technical knowledge than I do. But I am confused about the reference to R&D needed for a third party to make a K-mount lens. Surely a lens design will give a certain registration distance from the rear element. Then it is just a matter of designing the rear portion of the lens to suit the mount. What mofre R&D would be needed? For example, Nikon F mount has a registration distance of 46.5mm. Pentax K mount is 45.46mm. Surely it is just a matter of engineering 1.04mm of length for the K-mount and the necessary electrical contacts. The in-lens stabilisation can be (and is) left in place even though Pentax does not need it. Leaving it out would require design changes - but would be cheaper if the volume was sufficient. Or am I missing something here?
05-08-2017, 02:15 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by PJ1 Quote
For example, Nikon F mount has a registration distance of 46.5mm. Pentax K mount is 45.46mm. Surely it is just a matter of engineering 1.04mm of length for the K-mount and the necessary electrical contacts.
I assume that can actually be quite a hassle, especially once you consider the mount diameter and the way the mount connects to AF, aperture. I assume AF, aperture mechanism and lens ID are quite complicated and can be very different between brands
05-08-2017, 02:22 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by PJ1 Quote
... I am confused about the reference to R&D needed for a third party to make a K-mount lens. Surely a lens design will give a certain registration distance from the rear element. Then it is just a matter of designing the rear portion of the lens to suit the mount. What mofre R&D would be needed?... Or am I missing something here?
The mechanical aperture control mechanism is different for Pentax; it works in the same basic way, but it is different for each manufacturer's cameras. But, the big one is AF - communication with the camera and its AF routines is different. Formal access to the protocols requires payment of a license fee to Ricoh. Sigma chooses not to pay that, and instead reverse-engineers it with varying degrees of success (note how some older Sigma lenses were not immediately compatible with the K-1, and there is a risk that their lenses won't be fully compatible with newly-released cameras). This is why smaller manual-focus lens manufacturers can produce new products for the K-mount economically... aside from the aperture control linkage, it's relatively easy. But when you have to either (a) pay a license fee for the AF protocols, or (b) invest a lot of time reverse engineering and testing, the costs don't stack up if only a small volume of sales is expected.

Last edited by BigMackCam; 05-08-2017 at 02:34 AM.
05-08-2017, 02:39 AM   #26
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I've looked up the range of Pentax lenses available at Wex Photographic here in the UK.
There's a total of 76 Pentax lenses with 31 Pentax & 45 third party.
True this is small compared to say Canon with well over 200. But remember Pentax does have a great advantage in legacy lenses.
Also Pentax under Ricoh has been very careful in building cameras which are different to the likes of Canon & Nikon in the quality/price they offer. All Pentax cameras currently available are weather resistant as are the vast range of the lenses, something that can't be said of the others. Also they are built to a high quality £ for £.
Ricoh has shown it is committed to the brand & it takes a great deal of time & effort to increase the share of market from where Ricoh started. It has done & continues to do so a great job. By doing this, slowly other other third party lenses makers will continue to introduce new lenses, not perhaps at the same rate as for Canon & Nikon but with each one it shows that Pentax is still relevant & growing. Case in point the Pentax K 1 out of 38 lenses for this model 23 are by third party. Granted it's still small by the others but how long have Canon & Nikon been in FF compared to Pentax.
We all at Pentax Forum are ambassadors for the Pentax brand, we as much as anyone should be telling others about the wonders of Pentax. Then with more buying Pentax & seeing for themselves the fantastic quality of Pentax, third party lenses should become prevalent.
05-08-2017, 02:42 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by hjoseph7 Quote
I was wondering about that myself. Not only lens manufacturers but also camera accessories.
QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
..they aren't?
Bingo.
Some major third-party lens makers dropped (please observe the past tense) Pentax a while ago... now they're merely not in a hurry to come back.
05-08-2017, 02:55 AM - 1 Like   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
You wouldn't buy Pentax, Fuji, Panasonic or Olympus if you wanted the widest variety of third-party vendor support, you'd go with Canon or Nikon.

My advice to a new buyer is to work out what lenses you might want for the rest of your life, then get a body to go with it.

For me, that was Pentax. If I want pro f2.8 zooms, they're there, the plastic fantastics for cheap, and K-mount lenses of all kinds, budget and expensive, going back to 1975 (the Limiteds are a dream for travellers).

The lenses take standard filters, the flash hotshoe and tripod mount are standard, and you can even use off-camera Nikon compatible strobes and flashes in manual mode with a suitable trigger like a Cactus or Acon.
I agree - the Limited's are outstanding for travel. My travel kit is a very small Domke F-5xb bag, K-5II and one of the following two lens combinations depending on the destination; 21/40/70 or 15/35/70. The bag also holds a Lenspen, cloth, spare battery, white balance card, a polarizer and a variable ND filter. All of the Limited pancakes have a 49mm filter thread so that helps. On a few occasions I have travelled with the camera and one lens in a belt pouch - then the 21 is the lens to take.

The Limited's are also exceptional for street photography. The small size makes the camera discreet and people are more as ease when you're not pointing a large piece of glass at them.

A few years ago I sold all my Pentax gear to re-assess my shooting needs. It was the Limited's that brought me back. Shooting only primes I have learned not only to immerse myself in capturing moments but it has also taught me more about composition and perspective while shooting from a unique point of view. For example when shooting Football (not soccer), I'm on the field an sidelines as a coach - shooting with the 70 from the sidelines often can give the point of view of another player in the game.

Pick your glass and then the camera is sound advice.
05-08-2017, 02:56 AM   #29
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I think it really comes down to volume. I don't believe it is as hard to reverse engineer the lenses as some make out, but on the other hand, there is a basic cost of having k mount Sigma lenses produced that just sit on store shelves. Of course, they could always put a different mount on them down the road if they just didn't sell in k mount, but their goal is to move a lot of product and that doesn't seem to happen with pentax mounts.
05-08-2017, 06:21 AM   #30
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I will stick with Pentax no matter what happens.
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